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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Zen BraZen
Atlantia Corp
#3221 - 2012-02-24 20:48:51 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
[I'm cross posting this from the blog thread.]

The entire problem from the start was expectation management. The whole WiS concept has been around since (I think) late 2004/early 2005 so players like me who have played a number of years and seen it develop had been fed a steady diet of promises and grandiose visions of our avatars wondering around space stations. What we got was a box we could take three steps in any direction before hitting a wall. There was nothing wrong with Captains quarters it was simply that they in themselves did not warrant an entire expansion built up around them. The failure was with the marketing guys rather than the developers and coupled with the mischief that was going on with the internal newsletter and e-mails being released, and the lack of any real content, lead to the mass hysteria that went on.

The initial video we had of WiS was of avatars wondering up and down a promenade visiting stores. A powerful visual message that set itself in the minds of players from the time. We also had suggestions of new crafting mini-professions, retail establishments and bars, corporate offices and a board room. I also think the whole "iteration" approach to this just simply isn't going to work because whilst iteration works fine with FiS, it works because that is the core content of the game that has been around since the beginning. WiS does not have that framework to build upon in iterations so you need to be bolder, take a risk on releasing something that has a more multi-faceted level of content that appeals to a far wider audience rather than a select group at a time.

Get the promenade out there and allow people to set up retail establishments to sell player-crafted avatar clothing. Limit the market so that they're only accessible through WiS and not the standard market interface. If you want to overhaul boosters then have them sold in bars in the station rather than some generic "establishment". The entire Corporate management interface is not fit for purpose (trying being a CEO and locking/unlocking hundreds of BPs) and this could all be overhauled through a corporate office. Provide ways from within which we would be able to interact with space - for example, remote access to local counts or ways to monitor the success of Dust 514 members/teams. Make jump clones accessible only via WiS based medical facilities.

Release something we can immerse ourselves in because timidity will doom you to repeating the same mistakes you made with Incarna.


+1

The above saves me a lot of writing. :)

Only want to add that that the potential for WiS is truley staggering. When CCP combine the Dust and EVE economies, WiS has the potential to be where Dust and EVE meet on an equal footing. The melting pot of different players and agendas, where all things are possible. Imaging being responsible for the transport of Dust Mercs and equipment across space, interacting with Dust ops in real time, having a tangable experince of the markets or presiding over a meeting of coporate CEOs. Even just having a beer and interacting with the programable NPCs. WiS done correctly will allow the user base to create their own narrative and make it their own. For me, it is one of the most exciting aspects of EVEs potential.
Malena VXXI
#3222 - 2012-02-24 21:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Malena VXXI
CCP RedDawn wrote:
New WiS dev blog is out and can be found here:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3430


Sorry I cant see any there that give me any hope

just the same ... 'avoid the topics' general speach

You advertise EvE Online with 3d Chars ingame all over you sell clothes for irl cash without a warning its been put on som backburner !?

CCP fix WiS ' open the door'

and I been reading now this post and its more people that want WiS now then the people stating they dont want it
' if we remove those postings made by the same person but with another account '

I want WiS! * CCP  fix it!* 
Alagondar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3223 - 2012-02-24 21:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alagondar
i agree with Zen BraZen.

i dont know if someone mentioned this but: i'd like to see some sort of "drug" system on WiS. or some other sandbox concept (ill be the FIRST to handcuff the gangsters, and there WILL be tears)

but im pretty sure im happy what ever happens, just dont give up WiS!!!!!
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#3224 - 2012-02-24 21:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung
Nova Fox wrote:
John does have a strong point, we set our bars too high but ccp set the bar a bit on releasable content as well.



they better tell us then ,what they think is releasable content.
having to wait to fanfest with a no info blog patented to ccp ,come on TA you can do better then that

R.S.I2014
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#3225 - 2012-02-24 22:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: John McCreedy
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
John does have a strong point, we set our bars too high but ccp set the bar a bit on releasable content as well.



they better tell us then ,what they think is releasable content.
having to wait to fanfest with a no info blog patented to ccp ,come on TA you can do better then that


I'm not actually saying that. I'm saying that CCP built WiS up in to something in our minds they were unwilling to deliver that in one go and that if they ever want to sell us on the WiS then they need to be willing to deliver a large amount of content, appealing to the widest possible audience in one go in one expansion. To simply release establishments as an iteration will be to make the same mistake as CQ. Insufficient content and by the time there is sufficient content, no one will be interested in it.

Let me put it another way. After JFK had sold the concept of going to the Moon, if we'd done it by taking baby steps to get there, by the time we'd actually reached it no one would have been bothered. It was a historical event because the astronauts did it in one shot.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3226 - 2012-02-25 00:10:25 UTC
This is a rehash of something I posted in features & Ideas a long time ago but given the recent dev blog I still feel the idea has some merit.

The idea of a virtual world really should not be that strange to us so how about a virtual station.

Instead of leaving captains quarters you could basically sit down on your captain’s quarter’s sofa plug yourself in and transfer yourself to another environment.

In my original idea this was a virtual station with all capsuleers accessing the same station from within the same region, system or station depending on expected population’s, i.e. a single virtual station for a lowsec region whereas a highsec trade hub may need an environment per station if not more.

In the short term I would suggest this change to a single corp/alliance bar/lounge/war room this being accessible by all corp members docked in any station wherever that may be.

Could be immersion breaking but this would enable more social interaction where there are lower populations and reduce the need to travel just to interact.

I don’t really see this as the endgame for WIS I view that as much more conventional and immersive but as an interim step with a few limited environments, back burner development and a lower game population participating in this content I think it enables more linked up gameplay.

Given that it I not a real place then perhaps even access from space itself, click a button and send the ship into emergency warp (effectively log off), then transfer to the virtual environment. This may enable participation by those in systems with no accessible stations or wormholes. Preventing access to local and markets may be necessary in this case.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3227 - 2012-02-25 00:35:34 UTC
Dev troll ???

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Cletus Graeme
Shai Dorsai
#3228 - 2012-02-25 07:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cletus Graeme
Firstly, it's great news that WiS is still going ahead and moving forward (albeit more slowly). Potentially it could add a huge amount to EvE and draw in many more players - which is good for CCP and perhaps also good for us (if it is done without neglecting FiS). It's also good that CCP is now consulting the community about what players want/expect from WiS.

However, my biggest concern with "the promise" of FiS is what happened with Factional Warfare (FW).

FW promised a great deal - conquerable empire space/stations, relevance to the superb EvE backstory and a real opportunity for "role playing" to finally mean something in-game (as EvE is an RPG only in name).

However, despite all the talk, FW remains a shadow of what it could become. It is little more than a permanent empire war dec opportunity for less experienced pilots to cut their teeth on PvP.

It didn't even boost lowsec as the addition of the extra lowsec space (e.g blackrise) did nothing to persuade players to enter the large areas of lowsec which already existed and which are still underused and remain relatively empty.

CCP still has a lot to deliver with FW. Until they do I remain highly skeptical of any new content (like WiS).

Having said all that, my own take on WiS is as a combat pilot. In other words, we definitely need some kind of avatar combat and it should be an extension of the existing FiS pvp mechanics.
E.g.
Stations should be policed by CONCORD in empire and response times should mirror the system security status as it does in space and War Decs should allow you to fight in a station as they do in space

We all have clones so dying in a station doesn't mean anything more than ISK loss and inconvenience (as in space).

It's not hard to see how fights could break out over spies being uncovered, people being scammed, cheating accusations over a gambling game, smugglers being caught in the act or just via overconsumption of alcohol!

WiS without PvP is a non-starter and adding a whole new (avatar based) combat system is a monumental task so the fact that this is not being talked about in detail makes me very worried indeed. EvE is not a safe place to live and that's what makes it so much fun (and unique amongst MMOs). WiS shouldn't change that.

Another problem that WiS faces is that it's being added at a very late stage in EvE's development so many features which it could potentially bring as "new" to the game are ALREADY possible simply because we've needed to be able to do them (without avatars) for a long time.

For example, corporation recruitment could be conducted "in person" inside stations instead of on OOG comms. Similarly, corporation meetings could also occur via your avatar. These both already work WITHOUT avatars so if you want people to use the stations for this stuff then either add new features which are only available while docked or restrict access to certain information by only making it available "in person".

Also, if avatars were able to purchase "personal gear" from the market (NOT the NeX store) which gives them in-game advantages while docked (i.e. similar to buying and fitting ship modules to a ship) then there is now a reason to rob/grief/kill someone to "haz their stuff". This opens a whole new arena for invention/manufacturing/trade/pvp INSIDE stations.

As you can see the potential is there to add something really new and different to EvE but a project this ambitious needs to deliver on at least some of these possibilities. If we get another half-baked release like with FW (or another Incarna - heaven forbid!!!) I think that might be the last straw for many already disgruntled players.

At the moment there is a lot of talk about work on "ooh shiny" station interiors which have to look just right.
Guess what, WE DON'T CARE.

Gameplay >>> Graphics

Get the gameplay right - nice graphics is a bonus.

EDIT:
To end on a more positive note, from the latest dev blog it appears there seems to be a recognition that WiS is too big for a single expansion (just as was the case with FW) so CCP have decided to take the time to properly research, prototype and test any new WiS gameplay features before release as part of an on-going, incremental series of additions but with an overall plan and direction behind them all.

It's looking good so far!
Berke Negri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3229 - 2012-02-25 07:28:27 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
I would still like to have official good answer where did this end up to and why?

This entire concept and design was something many were waiting for instead of the junk we got now. Decent explanation would be in place. Is all this work really in /dev/bin now and beyond restoring? Just feels really bad to have working concept and product thrown away like this.

If I remember, either that was just a for-show tech demo built off of an Unreal engine and it never really existed outside the demonstration, or they at some point decided to get rid of it in favor of an in-house engine and that's where we're at now.
Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#3230 - 2012-02-25 07:57:42 UTC
WiS - to me - is a fantastic concept.

I wish CCP the best in getting it done!
Leedha Lemour
Staner Industries
#3231 - 2012-02-25 08:53:08 UTC

Vherokior eyes! Need I say more ?

They just don't look right, The Uncanny Valley
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#3232 - 2012-02-25 11:08:44 UTC
Berke Negri wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
I would still like to have official good answer where did this end up to and why?

This entire concept and design was something many were waiting for instead of the junk we got now. Decent explanation would be in place. Is all this work really in /dev/bin now and beyond restoring? Just feels really bad to have working concept and product thrown away like this.

If I remember, either that was just a for-show tech demo built off of an Unreal engine and it never really existed outside the demonstration, or they at some point decided to get rid of it in favor of an in-house engine and that's where we're at now.

It didn't scale and was scrapped shortly after. It's a devpost hidden somewhere in the forums about it.

Also new art direction happened which we have yet to recover from.

As I wrote in the other thread, I'm really glad to see that Ambulation/WiS/Incarna finally is reaching pre-production status, something it should have done half a decade ago.

How to win EVE
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#3233 - 2012-02-25 11:13:33 UTC
Berke Negri wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
I would still like to have official good answer where did this end up to and why?

This entire concept and design was something many were waiting for instead of the junk we got now. Decent explanation would be in place. Is all this work really in /dev/bin now and beyond restoring? Just feels really bad to have working concept and product thrown away like this.

If I remember, either that was just a for-show tech demo built off of an Unreal engine and it never really existed outside the demonstration, or they at some point decided to get rid of it in favor of an in-house engine and that's where we're at now.




CCP made WIS a big problem showing that vid before they started to make a completely new game engine
By doing that they couldn,t deliver what they promised or showed in that vid
and now they scratched everything they had and have to start over ,this is going to be a very long proces

R.S.I2014
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#3234 - 2012-02-25 13:02:04 UTC
People have been questioning (in the other thread) my comment about Jump Clones being WiS based. It was an example to make a point. This is how I see WiS should work.

John McCreedy wrote:
You're reading too much in to the ideas which were just thrown out there to make a wider point. The point that I'm trying to make is that in order to develop gameplay that will attract people to WiS, that gameplay has to be exclusive to WiS. It has to give you a reason to get out of your capsule and go down in to the station otherwise people will simply be lazy and engage in it from their hanger. It's overwhelmingly agreed that CQ was a failure because the only real content for a veteran was the PI interface and insufficient people engage in PI to have a reason to enter CQ and those that do can just as easily (and more quickly) do it from their hanger.

The same applies to establishments because they in and of themselves have an insufficient content to interest the majority. Not everyone wants or needs to use boosters so again that caters to a very limited audience. However, if there is content that appeals to a certain audience which requires them to leave their pod, and if that content is part of a wider gameplay element that has further content, they may well then engage in gameplay elements that did not initially attract them. Retailers have always known this. One of the most important thing to a retailer is footfall because the more people who come in the store, the higher the chance they'll buy more than one thing.

If have to get out of my pod to find a medical facility to jump clone (I'm just using this as an example), on the way I may meet an old friend and get talking to him and I notice he's wearing a cool jacket. We catch up and we end up arranging for our respective corps to meet up and go on a roam. We say our goodbyes and as I walk along the promenade I see that cool jacket for sale in a player-owned establishment so I go buy it for myself. I walk out the establishment and there is a bar across the way selling boosters so I may have a wander over and purchase some before carrying on down the promenade to reach the medical bay. That person I bought it off then may go out and spend the profits on a new ship I'm selling. All I wanted was to clone jump but I ended up meeting an old friend, making a new ally, buying a new jacket and boosters. We've also impacted the FiS content because through that gameplay, that roam may go out and engage in a fight where 30 ships are lost. Those pilots will then need to replace them and through both sides of the gameplay, we've contributed to the player-driven economy

The reason to get out of the pod can be anything you like, and once the initial framework is there you can iterate more gameplay elements on top of it but the point is that WiS can only be successful if the gameplay content, whatever that content may be, appeals to the widest possible audience. Sometimes giant leaps are better than baby steps and I believe the only way to make a successful WiS is for CCP to be brave and make a giant leap.


FiS and WiS should be indistinguishable from each other. It should simply be Eve Online. There is no reason why being able to get out of your capsule and wondering down to a station or even living in a station permanently if one wished, should have anything other than a positive impact on the FiS content.

The mistake CCP made was developing WiS at the expense of FiS, a mistake I believe they have learned from.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Oche Firestar
Silent Knight Industries - Virtual Tech
#3235 - 2012-02-25 14:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Oche Firestar
The ability to move around stations has been something that was a core part of EvE when it was first released to us so long ago. Indeed EvE was supposed to be a full environment - walking in stattions, planetary environments and cometary belts to name just a few of the things that meant - something which at the time had not been done in any MMO. When it was mentioned when would we get WiS it was always soon until about 4 years ago when we got the first sight of Ambulation. We got a lot of information on what we'd be able to do including a whole range of meaningful activities and a promise that we were one expansion away from seeing it go live.

Yet now we seem to be still as far away from WiS as we ever were facing the cutting off of another core part of EvE. This is no longer EvE - a full scale universe but something much smaller and much, much more limited. No longer does it have that magic that used to be able to bring people into test its grand majestic vision which made EvE something envied and that people who had not played EvE at least knew about. Now its hard to find people who even know that an MMO called EvE exists. And if you do its almost always former ex-players who left because EvE was becoming more and more limited and who are quick to point out the limits and failings of EvE.

CCP needs to recapture that grand majestic vision that used to be EvE. There needs to be a major effort to expand EvE into those areas that it said it would venture and do so quickly. EvE needs to re-open its universe and not stay one dimensional for that is the road to oblivion, a road it has travelled far down with few turnoffs left. There are new IPs out there that are far down the road to becoming the building blocks of new MMOs that could compete with a limited EvE and eventually push it off into the dusty books of history. EvE is not one decision away from extinction but limiting itself as it has been and is being forced to do so by many can quite quickly put EvE there.
Taiwanistan
#3236 - 2012-02-25 16:39:59 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
People have been questioning (in the other thread) my comment about Jump Clones being WiS based. It was an example to make a point. This is how I see WiS should work.

John McCreedy wrote:
You're reading too much in to the ideas which were just thrown out there to make a wider point. The point that I'm trying to make is that in order to develop gameplay that will attract people to WiS, that gameplay has to be exclusive to WiS. It has to give you a reason to get out of your capsule and go down in to the station otherwise people will simply be lazy and engage in it from their hanger. It's overwhelmingly agreed that CQ was a failure because the only real content for a veteran was the PI interface and insufficient people engage in PI to have a reason to enter CQ and those that do can just as easily (and more quickly) do it from their hanger.

The same applies to establishments because they in and of themselves have an insufficient content to interest the majority. Not everyone wants or needs to use boosters so again that caters to a very limited audience. However, if there is content that appeals to a certain audience which requires them to leave their pod, and if that content is part of a wider gameplay element that has further content, they may well then engage in gameplay elements that did not initially attract them. Retailers have always known this. One of the most important thing to a retailer is footfall because the more people who come in the store, the higher the chance they'll buy more than one thing.

If have to get out of my pod to find a medical facility to jump clone (I'm just using this as an example), on the way I may meet an old friend and get talking to him and I notice he's wearing a cool jacket. We catch up and we end up arranging for our respective corps to meet up and go on a roam. We say our goodbyes and as I walk along the promenade I see that cool jacket for sale in a player-owned establishment so I go buy it for myself. I walk out the establishment and there is a bar across the way selling boosters so I may have a wander over and purchase some before carrying on down the promenade to reach the medical bay. That person I bought it off then may go out and spend the profits on a new ship I'm selling. All I wanted was to clone jump but I ended up meeting an old friend, making a new ally, buying a new jacket and boosters. We've also impacted the FiS content because through that gameplay, that roam may go out and engage in a fight where 30 ships are lost. Those pilots will then need to replace them and through both sides of the gameplay, we've contributed to the player-driven economy

The reason to get out of the pod can be anything you like, and once the initial framework is there you can iterate more gameplay elements on top of it but the point is that WiS can only be successful if the gameplay content, whatever that content may be, appeals to the widest possible audience. Sometimes giant leaps are better than baby steps and I believe the only way to make a successful WiS is for CCP to be brave and make a giant leap.


FiS and WiS should be indistinguishable from each other. It should simply be Eve Online. There is no reason why being able to get out of your capsule and wondering down to a station or even living in a station permanently if one wished, should have anything other than a positive impact on the FiS content.

The mistake CCP made was developing WiS at the expense of FiS, a mistake I believe they have learned from.


hey buddy, i love your jacket,
hey stranger, i love your pants
hey there's a roam going out
nah i just wanna /dance
me too!
really?
yeah let do it!
lol!
are you telling me i have to wasd around for 5 minutes just to update my clone when i am podded?

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#3237 - 2012-02-25 19:08:59 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
are you telling me i have to wasd around for 5 minutes just to update my clone when i am podded?

Why not?

How to win EVE
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3238 - 2012-02-25 22:15:27 UTC
Cletus Graeme wrote:


Having said all that, my own take on WiS is as a combat pilot. In other words, we definitely need some kind of avatar combat and it should be an extension of the existing FiS pvp mechanics.
E.g.
Stations should be policed by CONCORD in empire and response times should mirror the system security status as it does in space and War Decs should allow you to fight in a station as they do in space

We all have clones so dying in a station doesn't mean anything more than ISK loss and inconvenience (as in space).

It's not hard to see how fights could break out over spies being uncovered, people being scammed, cheating accusations over a gambling game, smugglers being caught in the act or just via overconsumption of alcohol!

WiS without PvP is a non-starter and adding a whole new (avatar based) combat system is a monumental task so the fact that this is not being talked about in detail makes me very worried indeed. EvE is not a safe place to live and that's what makes it so much fun (and unique amongst MMOs). WiS shouldn't change that.



Also, if avatars were able to purchase "personal gear" from the market (NOT the NeX store) which gives them in-game advantages while docked (i.e. similar to buying and fitting ship modules to a ship) then there is now a reason to rob/grief/kill someone to "haz their stuff". This opens a whole new arena for invention/manufacturing/trade/pvp INSIDE stations.

As you can see the potential is there to add something really new and different to EvE but a project this ambitious needs to deliver on at least some of these possibilities. If we get another half-baked release like with FW (or another Incarna - heaven forbid!!!) I think that might be the last straw for many already disgruntled players.

At the moment there is a lot of talk about work on "ooh shiny" station interiors which have to look just right.
Guess what, WE DON'T CARE.

Gameplay >>> Graphics

Get the gameplay right - nice graphics is a bonus.


I disagree with this.

Granted there should be some Avatar Combat available but this sounds like a pitch to allow grief play in order to boost more kill-mail stats. Right now a very important aspect of the existing FiS pvp mechanics is being able to dock up in a station for safety, plain and simple.

I'm sure other players will agree that being able to suicide gank Avatars anywhere at anytime will just discourage players from participating in WiS. I definitely don't want my 1 billion ISK worth of implants to be destroyed while being active in WiS.

If you want a 'Free for all' FPS PvP gank fest, have Concord sanctioned Arena's placed inside the stations. If you want the option to suicide gank Avatars, make it a specialized skill career that's based on a percentage chance for success which would also include players having options to help safeguard themselves from being ganked.

'Nowhere in Eve is safe' or 'Eve's core gameplay is PvP' is nothing more than hogwash. As I said earlier, I can dock in station for 100% safety. My ship has ability to tank damage and also have logistics help from friends. If I'm being suicide attacked in high sec, hopefully my ship can survive so I can watch concord destroy the attackers. If my ship is destroyed, I also have a chance to spam warp and dock in a station before my pod is destroyed.

Bottom line: There are a lot of various options to help safeguard my character from being destroyed while being active in FiS. I expect the same type of options for WiS. If not, then good luck getting players to participate in WiS.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#3239 - 2012-02-26 00:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Cletus Graeme wrote:


Having said all that, my own take on WiS is as a combat pilot. In other words, we definitely need some kind of avatar combat and it should be an extension of the existing FiS pvp mechanics.
E.g.
Stations should be policed by CONCORD in empire and response times should mirror the system security status as it does in space and War Decs should allow you to fight in a station as they do in space

We all have clones so dying in a station doesn't mean anything more than ISK loss and inconvenience (as in space).

It's not hard to see how fights could break out over spies being uncovered, people being scammed, cheating accusations over a gambling game, smugglers being caught in the act or just via overconsumption of alcohol!

WiS without PvP is a non-starter and adding a whole new (avatar based) combat system is a monumental task so the fact that this is not being talked about in detail makes me very worried indeed. EvE is not a safe place to live and that's what makes it so much fun (and unique amongst MMOs). WiS shouldn't change that.



Also, if avatars were able to purchase "personal gear" from the market (NOT the NeX store) which gives them in-game advantages while docked (i.e. similar to buying and fitting ship modules to a ship) then there is now a reason to rob/grief/kill someone to "haz their stuff". This opens a whole new arena for invention/manufacturing/trade/pvp INSIDE stations.

As you can see the potential is there to add something really new and different to EvE but a project this ambitious needs to deliver on at least some of these possibilities. If we get another half-baked release like with FW (or another Incarna - heaven forbid!!!) I think that might be the last straw for many already disgruntled players.

At the moment there is a lot of talk about work on "ooh shiny" station interiors which have to look just right.
Guess what, WE DON'T CARE.

Gameplay >>> Graphics

Get the gameplay right - nice graphics is a bonus.


I disagree with this.

Granted there should be some Avatar Combat available but this sounds like a pitch to allow grief play in order to boost more kill-mail stats. Right now a very important aspect of the existing FiS pvp mechanics is being able to dock up in a station for safety, plain and simple.

I'm sure other players will agree that being able to suicide gank Avatars anywhere at anytime will just discourage players from participating in WiS. I definitely don't want my 1 billion ISK worth of implants to be destroyed while being active in WiS.

If you want a 'Free for all' FPS PvP gank fest, have Concord sanctioned Arena's placed inside the stations. If you want the option to suicide gank Avatars, make it a specialized skill career that's based on a percentage chance for success which would also include players having options to help safeguard themselves from being ganked.

'Nowhere in Eve is safe' or 'Eve's core gameplay is PvP' is nothing more than hogwash. As I said earlier, I can dock in station for 100% safety. My ship has ability to tank damage and also have logistics help from friends. If I'm being suicide attacked in high sec, hopefully my ship can survive so I can watch concord destroy the attackers. If my ship is destroyed, I also have a chance to spam warp and dock in a station before my pod is destroyed.

Bottom line: There are a lot of various options to help safeguard my character from being destroyed while being active in FiS. I expect the same type of options for WiS. If not, then good luck getting players to participate in WiS.


Sure, there should be a few safe places in WIS just the same as FIS, but the very second you are interacting with other avatars directly, you should no longer be 100% safe. The risk of death should be no different than un-docking in FIS now.

I don't think anyone advocates "free ganks" in WIS or FIS, and CCP would likely not either.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Piter Bakunin
#3240 - 2012-02-26 00:57:35 UTC
While I am impressed with the quality of the Avatars I find I am left with the question : What opportunity for gameplay does this give that wasn't there before?

I am more than willing to be sold on the concept of WIS but what I have seen so far seems like nothing more than a front for a cash shop.

None of the ideas I have seen bandied about thus far make avatars even relevant, let alone compelling gameplay. About the only one that can't already be done more quickly and efficiently from your Hangar is emoting at each other, now if thats what floats your boat then set sail captain, but its not going to pull me out of my ship and into the meat and I suspect many others feel the same way.

I may be just a noob, but until CCP can show me a compelling reason to want to walk in stations then I'll stay in my Hangar, thanks all the same.