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Really.. REALLY?
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Selinate
#41 - 2012-02-23 15:33:45 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
The fact that the GOP has gone absolutely over-the-top batpoo crazy shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Let's recap the last four years..

1) They decided to put winning the presidency above absolutely everything, including inconvenient things like actually running the country or bothering to be honest when it got in the way of being right.

2) They decided that all the moderates weren't real republicans and proceeded to purge as many of them as they could

3) The Tea Party, which started out as astroturf and morphed into a terrifyingly real amalgamation of every hick stereotype there is.

4) Big talk show hosts and Fox News took over the party from the people who were actually supposed to be running it, and they seem to be as interested in keeping their base in as milkable a frenzy as possible as actually winning elections.

I expect the GOP will eventually move back to the middle - the Tea Party is fading away already and even the most crazy right-winger would be hard-pressed not to recognize the current primary circus for what it is. But not this election - Romney might have a chance but even so his own party is making him move so far to the right Obama will just be able to play Romney's own soundbites this summer for campaign ads.


You can even see it in the republicans you meet every day, that a lot of them are starting to go "waaaaaaaaaaaaait a second".

But really, this should have happened years ago when the republican congress and tea party members started screwing things up and being unwilling to even begin to compromise.



...Oh well, if Rick Santorum actually manages to win the nomination, I'll start looking for a job/home abroad. If he actually wins, I'll leave as soon as I can. I'm not living in a country that doesn't care about itself and willingly puts a moronic bigot into the most powerful office in the world...
Adunh Slavy
#42 - 2012-02-24 20:24:49 UTC
Selinate wrote:

But really, this should have happened years ago when the republican congress and tea party members started screwing things up and being unwilling to even begin to compromise.



Why compromise one's principles? If you feel that XYZ is the right thing, then why should you sacrifice any of it?

Compromise is a word pulled out and often used as a tactic to whine about not getting something. "You're so unreasonable, just compromise, just give me a little of my liberty destroying policy, I promise I won't ask for more, until next time when I whine about compromise again."

Compromise is the grease on the slope to tyranny.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2012-02-24 21:39:08 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Selinate wrote:

But really, this should have happened years ago when the republican congress and tea party members started screwing things up and being unwilling to even begin to compromise.



Why compromise one's principles? If you feel that XYZ is the right thing, then why should you sacrifice any of it?

Compromise is a word pulled out and often used as a tactic to whine about not getting something. "You're so unreasonable, just compromise, just give me a little of my liberty destroying policy, I promise I won't ask for more, until next time when I whine about compromise again."

Compromise is the grease on the slope to tyranny.


This is why your countries infrastructure is falling apart.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-02-24 22:26:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Selinate wrote:

But really, this should have happened years ago when the republican congress and tea party members started screwing things up and being unwilling to even begin to compromise.



Why compromise one's principles? If you feel that XYZ is the right thing, then why should you sacrifice any of it?

Compromise is a word pulled out and often used as a tactic to whine about not getting something. "You're so unreasonable, just compromise, just give me a little of my liberty destroying policy, I promise I won't ask for more, until next time when I whine about compromise again."

Compromise is the grease on the slope to tyranny.


This is why your countries infrastructure is falling apart.

and they can't blame anybody but themselves.


but then again, it's the same for my country and any country that is struggling against debt crisis.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2012-02-24 22:31:02 UTC
Grimpak wrote:

and they can't blame anybody but themselves.


but then again, it's the same for my country and any country that is struggling against debt crisis.


My countries infrastructure is coming apart because arsewipes keep on setting themselves on fire trying to steal power cables from rail lines and substationsUgh
Adunh Slavy
#46 - 2012-02-24 22:54:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Adunh Slavy wrote:

Compromise is a word pulled out and often used as a tactic to whine about not getting something. "You're so unreasonable, just compromise, just give me a little of my liberty destroying policy, I promise I won't ask for more, until next time when I whine about compromise again."

This is why your countries infrastructure is falling apart.


How so?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#47 - 2012-02-24 22:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
IMHO, Republicans jumped the shark of moral pettiness with their attempt to impeach Bill Clinton.

Was so shamelessly self-serving and partisan that it was embarrassing to see. It completely killed the spirit that a POTUS should be better than the other guy, and opened the can of worms where Presidents don't win elections, rather the other guy loses them.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-02-24 23:05:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grimpak wrote:

and they can't blame anybody but themselves.


but then again, it's the same for my country and any country that is struggling against debt crisis.


My countries infrastructure is coming apart because arsewipes keep on setting themselves on fire trying to steal power cables from rail lines and substationsUgh

that too.

P

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Adunh Slavy
#49 - 2012-02-24 23:18:31 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
IMHO, Republicans jumped the shark of moral pettiness with their attempt to impeach Bill Clinton.

Was so shamelessly self-serving and partisan that it was embarrassing to see. It completely killed the spirit that a POTUS should be better than the other guy, and opened the can of worms where Presidents don't win elections, rather the other guy loses them.



Yep, the GOP got stupid about that whole issue. But this sort of stupid crap has been going on in American politics for a very long time, long before there even was a GOP or a Democratic party. The democrats don't have a "jack ass" as a mascot for no reason ya know.

It seems to me, a lot of people pick or choose which party they think is more manipulative based on which party was doing stupid things when that individual becomes politically aware. From then on it's a matter of social influences and our own ability to willfully ignore or reconsider our own confirmation bias, the media we choose to accept or deny as "fact" or "true".

Examination of both parties objectively reveals, they're not very different from one another these days. They're both pigs living in the house, arguing on which color sheets to have on the beds. From time to time they squabble over which pens of sheep will gets oats and which will get sour grass.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2012-02-24 23:47:15 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Adunh Slavy wrote:

Compromise is a word pulled out and often used as a tactic to whine about not getting something. "You're so unreasonable, just compromise, just give me a little of my liberty destroying policy, I promise I won't ask for more, until next time when I whine about compromise again."

This is why your countries infrastructure is falling apart.


How so?


Nothing ever gets done.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-02-25 00:01:20 UTC
Well for what its worth, he is right about Holland, i have a very good friend of many years from Holland, she recently told me her grandfather was basically put down

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#52 - 2012-02-25 04:25:15 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Why compromise one's principles? If you feel that XYZ is the right thing, then why should you sacrifice any of it?


Because when you have a roughly 50/50 split between ideological groups you either compromise and get something of your own agenda, or you refuse to compromise and get nothing at all. And of course if you take your no compromise position to an extreme, you don't even accomplish basic things like "keep the police functioning" or "don't let your nuclear power plants explode".
Adunh Slavy
#53 - 2012-02-25 05:46:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Nothing ever gets done.


Got ya, and that's correct. Part of that is because the federal government, USA anyway, has taken power from the states and local municipalities. The federal government then attempts to create a "one size fits all" solution to this or that. Such solutions are always too rigid, too regulated and don't match the needs of the smaller jurisdictions that the "solution" was supposed to address. They then mandate, force the solution on to areas that don't want it, don't need it, can't afford it, already have something better etc.

Then they have to come back a few years later and try to come up with another solution to fix the problems they created. Meanwhile they never fixed the first problem.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-02-25 06:18:49 UTC
So this is where the Tea Party supporters are getting the idea that any kind of health care would mean the government would start putting down older people?
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#55 - 2012-02-25 06:23:24 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Part of that is because the federal government, USA anyway, has taken power from the states and local municipalities..


Hint for the clueless: the same kind of disagreement still exists at the state and local levels. It doesn't matter what level of government you're at, you either compromise or you don't do your job.
Adunh Slavy
#56 - 2012-02-25 11:56:58 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Part of that is because the federal government, USA anyway, has taken power from the states and local municipalities..


Hint for the clueless: the same kind of disagreement still exists at the state and local levels. It doesn't matter what level of government you're at, you either compromise or you don't do your job.



There is no job requirement to "comprimise" for a legislator.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#57 - 2012-02-25 12:07:45 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
So this is where the Tea Party supporters are getting the idea that any kind of health care would mean the government would start putting down older people?



Look up Tom Daschle and terms like "evidence-based care." and "comparative effectiveness" if you want to know the origin of that "death panel" bit.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#58 - 2012-02-25 20:24:34 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
There is no job requirement to "comprimise" for a legislator.


No, but you DO have jobs like "pass a budget each year so the police department doesn't have to shut down", and you aren't going to be able to do that job if you aren't willing to compromise. As much as idiot conservatives think that ideological purity is the most important thing in a politician, it's a really bad way of getting anything done.

Adunh Slavy wrote:
Look up Tom Daschle and terms like "evidence-based care." and "comparative effectiveness" if you want to know the origin of that "death panel" bit.


The origin of the "death panel" bit was very simple: conservative leaders blatantly lied, and the idiots in the tea party actually believed it. So yes, let's do a quick search for "comparative effectiveness":

Statistical findings show that "patients in the highest-spending regions of the country receive 60 percent more health services than those in the lowest-spending regions, yet this additional care is not associated with improved outcomes."

So yes, we SHOULD consider whether the current approach of "do everything possible" is really a productive one, or just a waste of limited resources that would be better spent on patients which actually have a non-trivial chance of recovery. We SHOULD consider various end-of-life options, including the ability for a person to choose to die peacefully, and offer unbiased information and advice about the full range of options.

The only way to turn this into "death panels" is if you're either an ignorant moron, or a conservative politician who knows that ignorant morons are very good at getting people elected.
Reiisha
#59 - 2012-02-25 21:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Reiisha
I'm gobsmacked....

The comments on that liveleak video are just too out there to believe. Some of them actually truly believe that Santorum is telling 100% truth without every pointing to a source and only quoting hearsay, one of them actually claiming to have been in Europe and "confirming" that it's the case.

How disconnected from reality must these people be? Are these the people who control the most powerful army in the world?

I didn't think much of this but now i actually fear for our planet.

Headerman wrote:
Well for what its worth, he is right about Holland, i have a very good friend of many years from Holland, she recently told me her grandfather was basically put down


How recently? Why? Circumstances? Grief overshadowing the fact that the grandfather may actually have chosen a clean death over a few more years of anguish?

Is it "Christian" to demand people you supposedly love to suffer though their last few years in pain and on heavy medication, bedridden, because letting them die with dignity is "wrong"?

*sighs*

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Adunh Slavy
#60 - 2012-02-25 22:30:27 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

No, but you DO have jobs like "pass a budget each year so the police department doesn't have to shut down", and you aren't going to be able to do that job if you aren't willing to compromise. As much as idiot conservatives think that ideological purity is the most important thing in a politician, it's a really bad way of getting anything done.


Would this be the same sort of budget that has not been passed in the Senate for three years, going on its forth? You know, the Senate, that body of 100 that only needs a 51 vote majority to pass a budget, a majority held by the same party for that entire duration ... that kind of budget?

As for what is important to a politician, the most important thing to most politicians is getting reelected. If your constituents want X and you compromise for Y, that politician might loose his job, that's what politicians care about.

Merin Ryskin wrote:

So yes, we SHOULD consider whether the current approach of "do everything possible" is really a productive one, or just a waste of limited resources that would be better spent on patients which actually have a non-trivial chance of recovery. We SHOULD consider various end-of-life options, including the ability for a person to choose to die peacefully, and offer unbiased information and advice about the full range of options.

The only way to turn this into "death panels" is if you're either an ignorant moron, or a conservative politician who knows that ignorant morons are very good at getting people elected.


No, it depends on who is making those choices. If they are choices of the individual, fine with me, not my place to say what someone else opts to do so long as I am not obligated to pay for it or subsidize it by way of taxes or government mandates and fees. However, if that choice becomes the jurisdiction of some government agency, or becomes the choice of some bureaucratic body operating under provisions provided by government, such as an insurance company, then there is a problem.

You your self admit the 'need' as you see it. You say, "We should ...". Who is we? It's not our choice. It is the choice of the individual. So long as those choices do not infringe upon my life, liberty and property, who are "we" to make that choice?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt