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The potential of EVE

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Gregor Palter
#21 - 2011-09-21 03:20:33 UTC
I stopped caring for this game a long time ago, back when CCP's vision changed from making a cool game to "we need more subs because uhm... well fck you that's why!". The whole player base has changed as well ofcourse, "hatred" has always been a good incentive to wage wars and be involved but it's been "pff, why bother" for a long time now. This is due to game mechanics, CCP not taking care of problems swiftly and properly and the game becoming stale. Also, I like how this bounces back at the OP, metagaming essentially killed it. Not because of winning or losing but because it destroys the whole perception and make believe reality, if you will.

Thing is that I have this habit of logging in, chatting with folks and then undock for perhaps a few minutes only to log again. Reason to stick around is that there's nothing to replace it with. Mind you, not because eve is so "awesome", it's not anymore, or even that it's better than other MMOs, but there's no open sandbox MMOs.

EVE is #1 because of a lack of competitors, "damn with faint praise" and all that.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

London
Center for Advanced Studies
#22 - 2011-09-21 03:30:05 UTC
I have found myself all warm and fuzzy with Eve again recently. It's going in the right direction and at least they're trying...

Been playing since 2003 if that means anything.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-09-21 03:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Eve as chess analogy?

64 systems.

2 x stations each
2 x GM's
2 x Apostles (lol)
2 x Millias (oh the thought)
1 x Mittani (black team)
1 x Hilmar (white team)
and 8 frigs each.

That'll sell.

PS: The Miilia reference needs some thought Twisted

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#24 - 2011-09-21 03:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
My comments were meant to be sarcastic and trying to say "I don't know why people don't like upgrades/changes to their games".
Having said that, I do like Chess and i'm not trying to imply that it was a bad game in any respects because its rules haven't changed for a long time.
Ugh
Just to clarify.


lol @ The Apostle
The Apostle
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-09-21 03:41:21 UTC
Quote:
Having said that, I do like Chess and i'm not trying to imply that it was a bad game in any respects because its rules haven't changed for a long time.


I reckon Monopoly would be a better analogy.

1) Complex to noobs
2) It's got iskies
3) Sov
4) Stations
5) Scams
6) Build stuff
7) Chance
8) Free parking
9) Everytime you play, the rules change
10) After 20 years we still play the damn game!
11)........ feel free....

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
panterus29
Blame The Bunny
#26 - 2011-09-21 04:13:52 UTC
Tobias Sjodin wrote:
I'm still, what I would call: new to this game. I've only been playing it since February 2006 - but there's just something about this game. I think we as players underestimate and take for granted, the amazing work of game design that is this game.

Visually there is nothing that comes close to it in the MMO-world. There is no game that is so vast, so complex and intricate, nor as challenging when it comes to sheer player and social skill. It seems that this community keeps focusing too much on the latest change, the bone most recently held in front of you.

When I listen to something like this it's like a sledgehammer to the head with nostalgia. The old friendships, the plans, the fights, the late nights, the moments of success and failure.

I think that playing a game like this makes you irreversibly spoilt - I try to play another MMO and it seems limited, linear, lacking in atmosphere, size and ability to make a change. I too get caught up in the negativity that sometimes is directed toward the game, whether it is game balance, or sheer boredom.

Sometimes I think people forget that EVE in a sense is like real life, it is what you make of it. That if you sit and do nothing, nothing will happen. Yet somehow people expect others (ie. devs) to give you incentive, when you have so much opportunity to accomplish things by just doing something yourself. Whether it is starting a corporation, starting a fleet, attacking a gatecamp, or hot dropping some lone dude in a drake with your motherships.

It still baffles me that the negativity that comes from inaction creeps out as judgment on the game. That there somehow is the game's fault. I'm in some sense blaming myself too here (because I've been pretty "bored with EVE") as of late. But the reality is, if you undock and fight alongside some friends, there is no game that beats EVE today, and it has potential to be so much more.

So what is the point of this post? Well, it is in a way a sort of plead to people to put things in perspective and accept your own faults in what is this game. We all create it, we're all a part of it.

I of course realize, as always when you post anything on the EVE-forums, people will pick at it and call you a dev-alt, idiot, mewl about the alliance I'm a part of now and whatnot. But it wouldn't be the EVE-forums without it.




wait....what?!?....is this true?......Eve...has...sound.....?

tell me.....where is this setting?
Marlakh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-09-21 04:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Marlakh
I, like the OP, am also nearing the 6th year of my being as a capsuleer. Being a sci-fi fan, Eve has captivated my imagination not only because of its single-shard universe, FiS aspects, but also how CCP is actively expanding its universe to land-based conflicts. As I've mentioned in this post, there is almost no limits to how it can grow in terms of scope (interactions with celestials such as stars, nebulae, planets, moons, vast space stations etc), and granularity (eg customisable quarters, planetary vehicles, even player based cities, etc).

With due respect to the views on its similarity to chess, I'd rather say that Eve is an adequate reflection of the human condition, albeit in a futuristic setting. Even with clear rules and the threat of bans, players will bot, RMT, and within the sandbox rules, they will cheat, lie, steal, impersonate, spy, all that good stuff. Yet there are shining examples of volunteerism and charity for fellow players who command our respect (Dotlan, EFT, and Chribba's enterprises, to name a few). Which other MMO can really allow such innate behavior to reach their full potential? Although I've not played WOW, this article is very reflective of what happens when players reach the end game of a theme park MMO. In Eve, such an end game is non-existent, as the very nature of Eve is to provide an interesting context for social interaction, which is a process in itself, and not a conclusion.

The only limits to Eve are our imagination, CCP's commercial commitment to it, and technology to host all of us together in a single universe. May it be that I see my 12th year as a capsuleer.

Onward!
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#28 - 2011-09-21 04:55:13 UTC
panterus29 wrote:



wait....what?!?....is this true?......Eve...has...sound.....?

tell me.....where is this setting?


Lol Never gets old.

Empire, the next new world order.
Gregor Palter
#29 - 2011-09-21 05:05:16 UTC
Merovee wrote:
panterus29 wrote:



wait....what?!?....is this true?......Eve...has...sound.....?

tell me.....where is this setting?


Lol Never gets old.


The second something becomes a meme is a clue that it's already gotten old.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#30 - 2011-09-21 05:29:59 UTC
Gregor Palter wrote:
Merovee wrote:
panterus29 wrote:



wait....what?!?....is this true?......Eve...has...sound.....?

tell me.....where is this setting?


Lol Never gets old.


The second something becomes a meme is a clue that it's already gotten old.


This is a bit like when a band becomes mainstream, it has then sold out and isn't underground, therefore it isn't cool anymore.
Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-09-21 05:43:27 UTC
Tobias Sjodin wrote:


Sometimes I think people forget that EVE in a sense is like real life, it is what you make of it. That if you sit and do nothing, nothing will happen.


What if you have done everything already?
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-09-21 05:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo-Moor
Martyr Theos wrote:
Calfis wrote:
Martyr Theos wrote:
Tobias...

The simple solution is to bring back solo action to the point that it is a threat to large groups and acts as a counter to them.




I never understood why solo players play Massively Multiplayer Online games and whine that there isn't enough solo. Straight


and I never understood where ignorant fools like you got the idea that MMO meant players necessarily cooperated...

They could all be stabbing each other in the back, ignoring, or just watching each other... and often are.

Again (for the slow) ... there is nothing in the term MMO that requires or implies any cooperation among the players of an MMO. That characteristic of any MMO is completely voluntary and optional.


Man as bad as I didn't want to do this. You've taken it a bit TOO far. Mass-Multi-Player Online.. Multiple players Online playing the same game in massive numbers.

So you wish you could solo all of WoW. Raids and all that maddness.?!? Eww WoW I know

Most MMOs absolutely require the assistance of another at multiple points in the game. The tutorial missions even lead you into grouping mechanics so your less gimped when you really need to group up. The only time the game seems to really give a **** if I need someone is when it ask "If I wish to join fleet/group/raid etc.". You might of realized this morning much like the last mornings you've logged into your MMO of choice; is that you need others.

It might not be written in blood, or spelled out in your alphabet soup. But MMO normally implies group mechanics within the game..

You're just being silly...
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#33 - 2011-09-21 05:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Zey Nadar wrote:
Tobias Sjodin wrote:


Sometimes I think people forget that EVE in a sense is like real life, it is what you make of it. That if you sit and do nothing, nothing will happen.


What if you have done everything already?


Maybe Eve has a retirement home for you?
Where you can sit and watch the days go by.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#34 - 2011-09-21 06:04:39 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:


....

It might not be written in blood, or spelled out in your alphabet soup. But MMO normally implies group mechanics within the game..

You're just being silly...



So you're saying that I have to build sandcastles with others?
Ugh
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-09-21 06:13:08 UTC
Calfis wrote:
Martyr Theos wrote:
Tobias...

The simple solution is to bring back solo action to the point that it is a threat to large groups and acts as a counter to them.




I never understood why solo players play Massively Multiplayer Online games and whine that there isn't enough solo. Straight


Flying solo is not single-player. Your opponents are still human. Many find solo roaming thrilling precisely because it's you alone against an unknown number of human foes.

It definitely has its place in a sandbox MMO game.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#36 - 2011-09-21 06:28:19 UTC


I think there's a grandness to EVE, but it also needs to be nurtured. EVE is Alive in many ways - it needs to be taken care of, grown and improved upon.


Veterans are "bitter" for various reasons. You haven't been through everything to get us where we are if you're "new".

I remember the days when Probe Scanning was this 3 hour process to find 1 site. I remember days when you couldn't save your fittings (although now that's basically back to ground 0 with the restrictions). I remember days when you had to sit and blow up 30 POS' just to take control of a system and never see a single hostile ship.


So ya, maybe a few of us who have been playing EVE for 6 years, 7 years or even 8 years might be a little grumbly and foot stomping once and a while and gonna wag that cane at you and tell you you don't know how good you've got it and you've got something to learn.

We are your grand-daddy's in EVE Years.

CCP is a great company, EVE is a great place. But I don't understand how people can suddenly feel like a little negativity is ruining anything. Hell, EVE is practically built on the negative energy of destroying space ships in a non-stop cycle of manufacturing and destruction. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing.


EVE isn't Hippie Peace Land. It's not the Love and Hugs Galaxy.


EVE has a lot to work out to be truly amazing - and a lot is coming sooner than later. I dream of a day when EVE will be the ultimate Sci Fi Simulator. I envision the classic sci fi novels and space operas coming to life in ways that EVE can only nurture through it's vicious nature.

Much of what we need is to give the players the tools to finally "Fill" in the spaces. And it sounds like it's coming, and things are going to be more amazing than anything we could have thought 4-5 years ago.


Cheers on the good post.

Where I am.
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-09-21 06:37:39 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:


I think there's a grandness to EVE, but it also needs to be nurtured. EVE is Alive in many ways - it needs to be taken care of, grown and improved upon.


Veterans are "bitter" for various reasons. You haven't been through everything to get us where we are if you're "new".

I remember the days when Probe Scanning was this 3 hour process to find 1 site. I remember days when you couldn't save your fittings (although now that's basically back to ground 0 with the restrictions). I remember days when you had to sit and blow up 30 POS' just to take control of a system and never see a single hostile ship.


So ya, maybe a few of us who have been playing EVE for 6 years, 7 years or even 8 years might be a little grumbly and foot stomping once and a while and gonna wag that cane at you and tell you you don't know how good you've got it and you've got something to learn.

We are your grand-daddy's in EVE Years.

CCP is a great company, EVE is a great place. But I don't understand how people can suddenly feel like a little negativity is ruining anything. Hell, EVE is practically built on the negative energy of destroying space ships in a non-stop cycle of manufacturing and destruction. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing.


EVE isn't Hippie Peace Land. It's not the Love and Hugs Galaxy.


EVE has a lot to work out to be truly amazing - and a lot is coming sooner than later. I dream of a day when EVE will be the ultimate Sci Fi Simulator. I envision the classic sci fi novels and space operas coming to life in ways that EVE can only nurture through it's vicious nature.

Much of what we need is to give the players the tools to finally "Fill" in the spaces. And it sounds like it's coming, and things are going to be more amazing than anything we could have thought 4-5 years ago.


Cheers on the good post.


See even this tl;dr says you need others to play..
Walextheone
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-09-21 06:40:36 UTC
Martyr Theos wrote:


The whole point of Eve is Sovereignty in Zero.


For you maby. For other is could be something different. You know if the hole point would be Sovereignty then all of Eve would be conquerable. There are npc 0.0, w-space (best space), low sec and so on.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-09-21 07:10:13 UTC
Walextheone wrote:
Martyr Theos wrote:


The whole point of Eve is Sovereignty in Zero.


For you maby. For other is could be something different. You know if the hole point would be Sovereignty then all of Eve would be conquerable. There are npc 0.0, w-space (best space), low sec and so on.


We're working on it. Someday Goonswarm Federation will own Jita.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#40 - 2011-09-21 08:25:57 UTC
I think the problem with Eve and CCP is that they used to be the drunk unpredictable artist that splash paint on a canvas and would ultimately create master pieces, even if they were messy and unstructured. It wasn't always a good thing, but sure as hell was a lot more creative and free. They created a game that is unique by doing it this way. With releases of things like the NEX store its clear that they have abandoned this perhaps childish approach to development and going into a more traditional and very corporate version of creation which has resulted in Eve becoming far to reminiscent of other games. Not unlike the Star Wars Galaxies NGE they have stopped listening to themselves and started taking orders from the uncreative suits who hold their paychecks hostage.

CCP has never been organized, they have always been rather neurotic in their creativity and like artists they fluctuated between miracles masterpieces to piles of poo, but at least they where always creative. They pushed the envelope and pushed their art form forward and while we can sit here and ***** about it because it wasn't always good, at least it was done for the right reason. NEX store and this economically minded corporate run art form is a disaster and unfortunately its a one way street. Once you loose your edge as an artist and sell out to the foundation of making money (greed is good) you close the door on true creativity and freedom. You gave an inch and they took the whole arm and they will never give it back, not until its a lifeless hulk worth nothing.

That’s what is happening to Eve and CCP. Its the end of their golden age of creativity and the beginning of a corporate run MMO. Its not unlike someone finally deciding.. enough is enough we need to straighten out that Tower of Pisa, its been crooked for too long. Not realizing that being crooked is why everyone loved it.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
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