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New dev blog: Backwards Then Forwards

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Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-02-24 22:22:48 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
In particular regarding the overview issues then we removed the ellipsis that we added for narrow columns, based on your feedback, we improved the visual indication that the overview sorting is locked (both when a combat shortcut is pressed and when the mouse is hovering above the overview window (the addition in Crucible 1.2, the combat lock was an old feature)), and we modified the behaviour so that the overview is unlocked again when the mouse stops moving for move than 1 second. These changes have all already been deployed. Finally we are now working on shortening the update wait when a new ship arrives on grid, without sacrificing the performance optimisations we did in 1.2.

We will continue to monitor your feedback and bug reports.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You've completely avoided addressing the actual feedback, and you've just told us all of the stuff you've done, which has created or exacerbated the issue you created in the first place by screwing with the overview, which for many of us, is where more than 50% of our time interacting with the game is spent.

I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I have, but please don't feed me a bunch of regurgitated public info and dress it in the form of a response to real user feedback, because it isn't.

If you're really serious about interacting with your users and being accountable for the changes you're introducing into the game, here is the thread you need to be posting in regularly.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70607&find=unread

There are dozens of us concerned about the overview. Interact with us directly.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-02-24 22:25:01 UTC
CCP Unifex wrote:
I'm sure Veritas and the rest of the Gridlock guys are keeping a close eye on that thread. Just in case, I will ping them now.

I appreciate you pinging them, but they are miserably poor at relating with users. As seen in Explorer's response, they have neither the inclination nor the interest to engage with users over the gameplay changes they force on us.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#163 - 2012-02-24 23:12:52 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
CCP Unifex wrote:
I'm sure Veritas and the rest of the Gridlock guys are keeping a close eye on that thread. Just in case, I will ping them now.

I appreciate you pinging them, but they are miserably poor at relating with users. As seen in Explorer's response, they have neither the inclination nor the interest to engage with users over the gameplay changes they force on us.

You know... a little tact wouldn't kill you if your intent is to effect change. Whether or not your gripe is valid, if you wrote to me in that way I'd be totally uninterested in talking to you at all, let alone addressing any grievance you might have. I guess it's a good thing I don't work for CCP. You would be a lousy negotiator.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Yoma Karima
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-02-25 00:11:31 UTC
OK you guys mentioned Dust 514 in this dev-blog. Are we (hopeful) dust bunnies going to get any more news/screen-shots/concept art this month or do we have to wait till next or even fan fest?

Those who wish to end War wish to end what it means to be human. Those who advocate War do not know its power. Yet Those who learn from War will be remembered for all time.
Tyme Xandr
Weyl Manufacturing
#165 - 2012-02-25 02:20:51 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Tyme Xandr wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Tyme Xandr wrote:


[...]

...the exploration boat in the Echelon, the wormholes where u have safer nullsec ores and sleepers to kill and harvest for production.

[...]



Wait, what??!

[facepalm]

Not sure if troll? Have you ever actually been in a wormhole? Get your big ole' Hulk into one (Class 2+ only, c1s' mass-limits prevent a Hulk going through, IIRC), start mining out those constantly re-spawning (NOT!!) huge (ditto) A/B/C/O belts, and tell me how long you go before you get it urp-sploded--no, it won't tank Sleepers, and those aren't even the primary danger in worm-space--then tell me how "safe" it is.

[/facepalm]

E: Oh, and the Echelon is a novelty-ship, not an exploration-ship. We still don't have one of the latter, although it's arguably needed.


I lived in a wormhole. You EVE new players need to stop thinking EVE is a solo game. I gas mined and ABC mined in wormholes and its a team effort. Someone to kill the first and second set of sleepers in a grav site (afterwards they dont respawn). In a C2 WH you can kill them in an AF.

Risk comes reward. All you Indy players who want to sit in hi-sec cant complain about mining 'sucking'. Enjoy your veldspar.


Not a new player.
Not an indi player.
Have lived in wormholes, so yes, I know exactly what's what in one of those: Mining in a wormhole is only useful if you use the ores for yourself--too much opportunity cost for too little gain otherwise, and oh look: POS refinery-arrays are unaffected by skills, so you lose like 25% of what you mine.

I've also lived in sov-null. Mining the high-ends out there--assuming your alliance isn't totally fail, in which case, they don't deserve their space, and will lose it sooner or later--is a Hell of a lot safer than and more profitable than wormhole mining ever was, is, or will be. And wormhole life plus the needs thereof are exactly as they should be.

Post with your main, stop being a supercilious douche, and stop insulting our intelligence.

Pathetic little 1337-wannabe.

Next!

E: Oh, is that your main, then? Well, no matter: You forum-trolls all look/sound the same to me.


For someone who has done so much - you sure are complaining about things that work as intended.
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-02-25 03:42:10 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Elsa Nietchize wrote:
>war themed expansion
i like pvp but not more than i like my training times
i dont feel like risking 500m+ in implants
what do?


Learn how to save your pod (barring Light Interdictor/HICTOR-bubbles, of course, which are not allowed in 0.1+ rated space.). Practise with a corpmate or an in-corp alt with a noobship or something, it is generally very difficult to lose a pod in empire-space unless you have lag or client-stutter.


i'm a 3 year old character.
i was merely making the point that there's a % of the population that like to pvp but when we look at it risk vs reward, we just can't rationalize it. 24h cool down for JC and 500-1b+ implants, we just say screw it, stay in empire and do what we do everyday.
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
#167 - 2012-02-25 08:03:12 UTC
Sustaine wrote:
I've been playing eve for some time - got married had a son - so group play is much less of an option for me. Dressing up, RPing and social play is a non-starter, too time consuming. Group play appears to remain your focus, but anything you can do for us solo players would be great.

Better faction war - get in get out easily (like Red V Blue)

mining fixes - changing mining to be like planetary interaction with tiered production rates for At the keys players. The afkers can keep their rates, but if you mine actively you should be able to make more.

Work on missions - give better decision options instead of having to kill all the time or afk travel

Basically there a bunch of us that have RL time issues and we can only get on and off quickly so waiting for others is impossible. That said "living in EVE", contributing to it in small ways, or just floating in space star-watching, knowing there's a LOT out there around you is very satisfying. Don't forget about us!


To piggyback on what Sustaine said, I find myself in the same boat. I don't have hours of time available to sit in a belt and mine for hours. When I play, I may need to quit the game at a moment's notice depending on what is going on in the house.

I would like to propose that CCP seriously consider creating another tier or tech level of mining barges capable of holding a lot more ore. This way we can mine and then simply run back to the station or something should we need to quit. A better idea would be to somehow make mining more based on a player's skill behind the keyboard rather than a waiting game. I thnk this would kill two birds with one stone. It would making botting more rare as well as make mining more interesting.

On a similar note, I think that the Orca needs a serious tank boost. It should not be able to be taken down by a single T2 cruiser. A ship this large deserves more tank as I could only envision any capital sized craft of being able to take on more damage. I understand that the Orca used to be nearly invulnerable at one time with the use of shield rechargers. All I can say is that the tank leaves much to be desired when going into troublesome areas. Not asking for a super tank...just something that is deserving of this class of ship.
Endeavour Starfleet
#168 - 2012-02-25 08:38:34 UTC
The thing is we CANT go back to the days of hisec wars just being blob out and pwn like they did when dec shields were an exploit.

Let me say it again. If the system has people logging out for a week it is WRONG.

The whole damn system has to be different. If its "hurr durr I just killed your mission ship during a war dec without concord killin ma and I have 20 blues to back me up a system over" Its pointless in the long term as the best you can hope for is more POS with guns on it.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2012-02-25 08:45:07 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
CCP Unifex wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
CCP Unifex wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback and questions so far. I'm going to let this run a bit as there seem to be a few common themes emerging which I want to pull together and answer properly.

It'd be nice for you to answer for the issues with the 1.2 patch instead of playing the shell game of "look, new shiny coming!"

I just went and looked again, and it's got to be at least 50 posts about the overview changes.

When you rollout a change, and the majority of the non-bug posts are issues with a change in functionality, isn't it incumbent on you, sprint or waterfall, to actually address it with your paying customers?

Save us from the cutesy YouTube videos with staff hamming it up and give us some substantive responses to real feedback on so-called "improvements".
I'm sure Veritas and the rest of the Gridlock guys are keeping a close eye on that thread. Just in case, I will ping them now.
Verifying that we were pinged and that indeed we have been working on the issues that cropped up in Crucible 1.2 (we released 1.2.1 as well as 4 client updates to address the issues reported) and that we are continuing to work on those that remain.

In particular regarding the overview issues then we removed the ellipsis that we added for narrow columns, based on your feedback, we improved the visual indication that the overview sorting is locked (both when a combat shortcut is pressed and when the mouse is hovering above the overview window (the addition in Crucible 1.2, the combat lock was an old feature)), and we modified the behaviour so that the overview is unlocked again when the mouse stops moving for move than 1 second. These changes have all already been deployed. Finally we are now working on shortening the update wait when a new ship arrives on grid, without sacrificing the performance optimisations we did in 1.2.

We will continue to monitor your feedback and bug reports.


I believe that part of this list belongs to you guys :]

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2012-02-25 09:15:26 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Let me say it again. If the system has people logging out for a week it is WRONG..

Ever consider relying on a non-CONCORD based protection system?
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#171 - 2012-02-26 01:47:47 UTC
Tyme Xandr wrote:


For someone who has done so much - you sure are complaining about things that work as intended.


Fool:

Read what is written, not what you wanbt to see to feed your delusion of l33t-ness.

Yes, I am complaining:

That a profession fundamental to EVE's economy--you know, what drives this entire damned game--is so broken that no-one sane would make a career of it, and that one of the only places in which it is balanced vis-a-vis risk and reward almost got nerfed so 133t-tard bot-plantation owners could make their bot-plantations bigger, basing the rationale for same on a premise they so obviously pulled out of their arse.

But that makes me the one whining about risk!

**** me running, you are a myopic fool. Get over yourself.

Next!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#172 - 2012-02-26 03:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Gogela wrote:
You know... a little tact wouldn't kill you if your intent is to effect change. Whether or not your gripe is valid, if you wrote to me in that way I'd be totally uninterested in talking to you at all, let alone addressing any grievance you might have. I guess it's a good thing I don't work for CCP. You would be a lousy negotiator.

This isn't a negotiation. I and others have been waiting a week for a dev response, but these guys want to blow us off, when they aren't ignoring us altogether.

Why do I need tact? I didn't screw up the overview. I'm not the one ignoring clients. I'm not the one posting empty PR spin to legitimate gameplay issues.

I don't complain a lot about Eve. I like this game. These guys screwed up something that affects my gameplay, and the gameplay of others. I am trying to get it fixed. I should be lauded as a hero, not criticized for the aesthetics of my posts, particular when I am near my wits end.

IRL if someone treated their clients the way the CCP devs treat us, they would be bankrupt. It's not how business is done.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#173 - 2012-02-26 05:28:38 UTC
Kenpachi Viktor wrote:
Please add the ability to join the pirate and minor factions. Even with out territory to fight over, there are people that will sign up. Pirate


This is what I wanted to do when I first started playing in 2009. The NPC pirate in one of my tutorial missions even said that I would have the chance to do so. LIES! I know a disgruntled Amarr Holder that would relish to opportunity to help everyone become a useful member of Sansha's Nation.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#174 - 2012-02-27 02:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#175 - 2012-02-27 07:53:08 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Gogela wrote:
You know... a little tact wouldn't kill you if your intent is to effect change. Whether or not your gripe is valid, if you wrote to me in that way I'd be totally uninterested in talking to you at all, let alone addressing any grievance you might have. I guess it's a good thing I don't work for CCP. You would be a lousy negotiator.

This isn't a negotiation. I and others have been waiting a week for a dev response, but these guys want to blow us off, when they aren't ignoring us altogether.

Why do I need tact? I didn't screw up the overview. I'm not the one ignoring clients. I'm not the one posting empty PR spin to legitimate gameplay issues.

I don't complain a lot about Eve. I like this game. These guys screwed up something that affects my gameplay, and the gameplay of others. I am trying to get it fixed. I should be lauded as a hero, not criticized for the aesthetics of my posts, particular when I am near my wits end.

IRL if someone treated their clients the way the CCP devs treat us, they would be bankrupt. It's not how business is done.


You are aware that CCP staff doesn't works on weekend, are you? It is quite amazing how they as much as surf these forums on a saturday.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#176 - 2012-02-28 16:19:27 UTC



I think the crucial necessity to go back and update all these "archaic" systems is crucial now more than ever. So, starting and giving attention to parts of the game that have been neglected for almost a decade is an excellent decision. There's so much that needs revisiting and touching up, and also more future-proofing.

I think eventually you're going to have to tackle the mission and explorations systems, develop tools to make it easier to develop those missions so you can provide more content easily, and keep things more interesting for the average player. Everytime I see this mentioned I see every dev response go "OMGWTFYOUCRAZYIT"SGOINGTOTAKEYEARSTODO!WEHAVESOMUCHSTUFF!".

I know you do, but, seriously, you're going to have to bite that bullet sooner than later - might as well develop tools that make it easy and quick to make those missions without days of QA for each and every single mission for your own sanity. The amusing "buff" to missions a while back of adding over 200 courier missions just made me laugh so hard.

I am not a mission runner at all. I haven't run missions in AGES, but it's one of those things that a large portion of your player base does, and it's probably time you gave them something more interesting (and less AFK grindy, but people will ***** about that too... 'waaah, I can't AFK mission whore anymore') Think about that for a moment... lol.

I'm curious what thoughts and plans you have for that (if any).


Where I am.
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#177 - 2012-02-28 19:10:25 UTC
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
So... CCP,
Do you (will you ever) give a squat about not pew-pew players in EVE???
Industry and mining is on life support and you don't give a squat about players that like that part of game.
How much more indy ppl need to leave eve until you throw us a bone?
EVE needs at least one BIG Industry and Mining expansion.

You are building a roof without a foundations.


The problem is, we had our industrial expansion.. it simply didn't impact anyone outside null sec.

Though we did get PI, and the Orca, and Noctis, so we are getting little things at least. But yeah, an overhaul of the mining system or a more involved high-sec-capable manufacturing system would be nice.
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#178 - 2012-02-28 19:17:30 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:

IRL if someone treated their clients the way the CCP devs treat us, they would be bankrupt. It's not how business is done.


Actually, this is exactly how business is run. CCP does not have the best PR/CR, but they are far from the worst and I would say they are actually more engaged with their clients then most companies I interact with. Most companies do not have 'forums' for user feedback in the first place, much less a community around it. I have worked in game development, we were not even allowed to talk with our customers for PR reasons, so the fact we get ANY developer response is significant, and rolling updates are a privilege they have extended that most companies do not.

This is IRL, they are a business, and financially they are not doing that badly all things considered.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#179 - 2012-02-28 19:46:01 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:


True true, there was a missing word over there, The Industry is live and kicking because of the OLD players. It is realy hard to find new players buying a BPOs and having some sort of success trying to find a place in the market....


I am a 2009 player (relatively new) and also do industry. Those who fail is because they are the new generation of baddies.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#180 - 2012-02-28 20:01:35 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Verifying that we were pinged and that indeed we have been working on the issues that cropped up in Crucible 1.2 (we released 1.2.1 as well as 4 client updates to address the issues reported) and that we are continuing to work on those that remain.

In particular regarding the overview issues then we removed the ellipsis that we added for narrow columns, based on your feedback, we improved the visual indication that the overview sorting is locked (both when a combat shortcut is pressed and when the mouse is hovering above the overview window (the addition in Crucible 1.2, the combat lock was an old feature)), and we modified the behaviour so that the overview is unlocked again when the mouse stops moving for move than 1 second. These changes have all already been deployed. Finally we are now working on shortening the update wait when a new ship arrives on grid, without sacrificing the performance optimisations we did in 1.2.

We will continue to monitor your feedback and bug reports.


Feedback 1: re-introduce the ability to minimize windows. It's code you already have, it's stuff that does no harm. I had the "auto-hide" neocom for years and just minimized / maximized the little stuff I needed.

Now I have every time to go unhide it, wait for it to scroll in, then find the icon, then the window finally appears.

Quite illogic, don't you think?

Feedback 2: For what I have read, Concord can now be kited away. Is this intended?

Feedback 3: Neut reppers. Why? If they rep a red, they should turn red. Period.

Feedback 4: People are using electronic warfare ships to circumvent Concord mechanics and thus (with the boost to destroyers) get very cheap ganks. Is it intended?

Feedback 5: Is instant lock intended? Not everybody have direct data center UK connection, what's the point trying to pass a gate camp if they can lock you within 1 simulation server heartbeat? It reeks of the same cheesyness that unprobable Tengus had in the past.

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