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Join me for the million miner march!
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2012-02-24 20:24:21 UTC
if only i had more space honor, to go with my forum honor

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2012-02-24 20:26:59 UTC
Clearly this is a campaigning thread and should be moved to Jita Park Speaker's Corner
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#83 - 2012-02-24 20:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Weaselior wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I think some ~elite pvp~ people might consider coming with smartbombs to prop up their kill/death ratio.

argh he would never have figured that out

Uh, not us, we don't care about that.

I mean those guys over in Raiden. and PL who are losing way too many tengus to drakes....
Issler Dainze wrote:
And if you somehow find honor in the death of NPC alts in noob ships then you are far too impressed with yourself.

Yeah you tell em! Evil ~elite pvp~ having to pad their kills with random pods and mining ships and now rookie ships and pods. Issler, tell then what you think about them and their compensatory titans! Give em' a piece of your internet spaceship forums mind!

There's good reason to get newbies into Rifters and Blackbirds, not just because you might tackle a carrier or jam some enemy logistics ship for 5 minutes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-02-24 21:02:18 UTC
I doubt bots read forums.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#85 - 2012-02-24 22:07:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I think some ~elite pvp~ people might consider coming with smartbombs to prop up their kill/death ratio.

argh he would never have figured that out

Uh, not us, we don't care about that.

I mean those guys over in Raiden. and PL who are losing way too many tengus to drakes....
Issler Dainze wrote:
And if you somehow find honor in the death of NPC alts in noob ships then you are far too impressed with yourself.

Yeah you tell em! Evil ~elite pvp~ having to pad their kills with random pods and mining ships and now rookie ships and pods. Issler, tell then what you think about them and their compensatory titans! Give em' a piece of your internet spaceship forums mind!

There's good reason to get newbies into Rifters and Blackbirds, not just because you might tackle a carrier or jam some enemy logistics ship for 5 minutes.


PvP is not evil. Pretty awesome if done right in fact.

Also a huge fan of the Rifter and the Blackbird. In fact look for one my Alliance Tourny teams somewhere in the video of the matches our tanked "Blackbird of Confounfment"! We took the Blackbird to a whole new level!

What I don't understand would be the point of smartbombing suicide ganking to kill some noob NPC alt ships. Where does that get fun. Throwing away isk and standing to temporarily annoy someone.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#86 - 2012-02-24 22:10:38 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Clearly this is a campaigning thread and should be moved to Jita Park Speaker's Corner


I am doing this to show CCP that miners can organize and do want CCP to improve mining. This about miners protesting to CCP.

I've limited my comments in this thread to the miner's plight and the need to do something in game to make a statement for the miners.

If someone wants to know why I'm running for CSM 7 and what I stand for then yes, please visit Jita Park.

Issler
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2012-02-24 22:34:02 UTC
i have well over 100b worth of assets and I am -10

podding everyone in your milion miner march for 80m and no standing loss (can't get any lower!) is effectively costless and ever so entertaining

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2012-02-24 22:36:23 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Miners are professional victims. They couldn't organize even if they wanted to.

Highsec has never produced a viable political block; and even among hisec players, miners are the absolute last place to look for political organization or willpower.


They did once behind an infamous spork thrower. I hope it can happen again.

Issler



Well you could hardly achieve less than she did for the players she claimed to represent. I'd choose a better example than an egostistical vote-scammer with appallingly blatant emotional issues.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2012-02-24 22:44:51 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
Clearly this is a campaigning thread and should be moved to Jita Park Speaker's Corner


I am doing this to show CCP that miners can organize and do want CCP to improve mining. This about miners protesting to CCP.

I've limited my comments in this thread to the miner's plight and the need to do something in game to make a statement for the miners.

If someone wants to know why I'm running for CSM 7 and what I stand for then yes, please visit Jita Park.

Issler



Have you considered that this might backfire if you only get 17 guys to show up and the other 98% of the community completely ignore you?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#90 - 2012-02-24 22:57:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Have you considered that this might backfire if you only get 17 guys to show up and the other 98% of the community completely ignore you?

Goon alts will attend!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Fabster
The Restless Masquerade
#91 - 2012-02-24 23:39:47 UTC
I might even consider mining if it would be more like this.

Galaxy on fire mining

Also dunno if bots could counter the moving cursor stuff.

On second thought mining will still boring. Lol
Fabster
The Restless Masquerade
#92 - 2012-02-24 23:42:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Have you considered that this might backfire if you only get 17 guys to show up and the other 98% of the community completely ignore you?

Goon alts will attend!


I see what you did there Twisted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#93 - 2012-02-25 01:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Fabster wrote:
I might even consider mining if it would be more like this.

Galaxy on fire mining

Also dunno if bots could counter the moving cursor stuff.

On second thought mining will still boring. Lol

"Damnit! Without any weapons I have no choice but to aaccept Gunant's rules."

So that miner is like a slave or being held hostage or something huh. Or a carebear mining because otherwise he'll get ganked. Guess he had no CONCORD to protect him eh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#94 - 2012-02-25 02:45:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
Clearly this is a campaigning thread and should be moved to Jita Park Speaker's Corner


I am doing this to show CCP that miners can organize and do want CCP to improve mining. This about miners protesting to CCP.

I've limited my comments in this thread to the miner's plight and the need to do something in game to make a statement for the miners.

If someone wants to know why I'm running for CSM 7 and what I stand for then yes, please visit Jita Park.

Issler



Have you considered that this might backfire if you only get 17 guys to show up and the other 98% of the community completely ignore you?


So this is a work in progress. It is clear that in game activities are an important part of showing CCP support for something. Getting miners that are in in small corps, up in high sec that don't go on the forums is a challenge and given the number of folks that prefer kicking over sandcastles compared to folks that build them this is even harder.

But I owe it to the miners to try and do something.

My inner optimist says its worth a try.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#95 - 2012-02-25 02:47:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Miners are professional victims. They couldn't organize even if they wanted to.

Highsec has never produced a viable political block; and even among hisec players, miners are the absolute last place to look for political organization or willpower.


They did once behind an infamous spork thrower. I hope it can happen again.

Issler



Well you could hardly achieve less than she did for the players she claimed to represent. I'd choose a better example than an egostistical vote-scammer with appallingly blatant emotional issues.


Didn't choose her for her effectiveness. I did more for the folks that elected me twice than the the folks that got her in. My point was someone did manage to get some high sec alignment even if she wasn't what folks hoped she would be.

Issler
Schmacos tryne
Norsk Testosteron
#96 - 2012-02-25 02:49:50 UTC
I used to be a miner such as you, but then I saw your face...
Muddy Miner
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-02-25 05:14:03 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Miners!

We are long overdue for some positive attention from CCP. We haven't seen a substantial change or improvement in Eve focused at miners for as long as I can remember. We have seen the effectiveness of mass demonstrations in gaining CCP's attention and it is time we show CCP we are a force to be reckoned with.

In order to shine the light on the miners of Eve during the CSM 7 elections I will be organizing gatherings for all miners in the major trade hubs over the course of the elections.

I am sure already folks are saying "wait, we will be ganked immediately". I am sure there will be a few of us that fall victims to the forces of evil but what I am asking is to make it not worth the cost.

Please join me for the first gathering Sunday. We will begin to gather in Rens at 18:00 Eve time. Please come in something you would not be afraid to lose. This means alts and noob ships or something you feel tanked enough to be safe. I will be setting up a chat channel to coordinate. Look for me to update this post as the weekend approaches.

I will be organizing these gatherings every weekend through the election. I encourage other miners to stage their own protests.

We will also be conducting flash mob mining ops throughout high-sec.

Miners unite!!

Issler Danize
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 candidate


Forgive my ignorance, but where is mining broken?
I fly out to space, point my lasers at rocks, fly home with ore.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-02-25 06:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Issler Dainze wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Issler Dainze, I don't fully agree with your ideas about mining and I urge you to think a little harder about your approach and tweak it a bit. That being said, I am a miner and I'd love to join this march. In fact I will bring a retriever, just to be classy. Please remind me when it's coming up so I don't forget, and thanks in advance!!


I'd love to learn more about what your ideas are about how to make mining better.

Remember, I am looking to create a panel of advisers to help create the best ideas to bring to CCP. The ideas I've shared to date were intended to start off conversations, not meant to be the final solution to all things in need if fixing.

Issler


I mostly agree with what The Mittani says about it. It needs to be more fun, and it needs to be accessible in nullsec. I also like to see ideas about ways to make it harder for bots to mine, though as of yet I haven't seen very many good ones. That's a tough subject.

I think reducing "gunminerals" such as drone compounds and the excessive amounts of tech 1 module drops in PVE is a big step toward making mining more valuable. Of course an isk sink needs to be put in as well if the drones start giving bounties. Perhaps drone compounds could be changed such that they cannot be refined for minerals but instead can be traded along with isk and loyalty points for cool faction items in a loyalty point store somewhere.

Another idea I have had to increase specifically non-highsec mining is to increase the amounts of highsec minerals yielded in the nullsec and lowsec ores. Here's my list of tweaks:
  • Pyroxeres should yield a third of the nocxium it currently does, as it currently yields half as much as lowsec ores, taking away their uniquity. The rest of its yield might be increased a bit, but it's too good at current anyway.
  • Kernite should yield half as much isogen as it currently does. When you add the mexallon and isogen yield together from one batch of kernite, you'll see that it's nearly as much as the same volume mined in plagioclase PLUS the same volume mined in omber. Thus no matter how the market fluctuates, kernite will still generally be much more valuable than either plagioclase or omber. Plus, highsec kernite is likely the largest contributor to the price of isogen being rather low for the past couple years or more. (Possibly it would be better to make it yield 1/3rd less isogen and 1/5 less mexallon, or somewhere in between, but its total yield of the two should be down by at least 1/4th.)
  • Hemorphite and Hedbergite should have their yield boosted by a quarter because they are the only lowsec ores that cannot be found in highsec anomalies, thus they should be substantially more valuable than jaspet but they aren't.
  • Gneiss should have its mexallon yield increased to 10x its current value, and its isogen yield increased to 2x. This will make it worth mining as well as giving it a mineral yield similar to having mined about 2/5ths of a unit of kernite, which will put mexallon and isogen into nullsec and reduce costs of shipping it from highsec.
    • [*] Spodumain should have its tritanium and pyerite yield increased to 100x their current value, which will make spodumain worth mining as well as adding the equivalent of about 3/4ths of a unit of veldspar or scordite to each unit of spodumain. That will add lots of tritanium and pyerite to nullsec, reducing shipping costs further.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Issler Dainze
    Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
    The Honda Accord
    #99 - 2012-02-25 07:02:59 UTC
    Muddy Miner wrote:
    Issler Dainze wrote:
    Miners!

    We are long overdue for some positive attention from CCP. We haven't seen a substantial change or improvement in Eve focused at miners for as long as I can remember. We have seen the effectiveness of mass demonstrations in gaining CCP's attention and it is time we show CCP we are a force to be reckoned with.

    In order to shine the light on the miners of Eve during the CSM 7 elections I will be organizing gatherings for all miners in the major trade hubs over the course of the elections.

    I am sure already folks are saying "wait, we will be ganked immediately". I am sure there will be a few of us that fall victims to the forces of evil but what I am asking is to make it not worth the cost.

    Please join me for the first gathering Sunday. We will begin to gather in Rens at 18:00 Eve time. Please come in something you would not be afraid to lose. This means alts and noob ships or something you feel tanked enough to be safe. I will be setting up a chat channel to coordinate. Look for me to update this post as the weekend approaches.

    I will be organizing these gatherings every weekend through the election. I encourage other miners to stage their own protests.

    We will also be conducting flash mob mining ops throughout high-sec.

    Miners unite!!

    Issler Danize
    The Miner's Friend
    CSM 7 candidate


    Forgive my ignorance, but where is mining broken?
    I fly out to space, point my lasers at rocks, fly home with ore.


    But it could be so much more.

    Issler
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #100 - 2012-02-25 07:10:33 UTC
    Fabster wrote:
    I might even consider mining if it would be more like this.

    Galaxy on fire mining

    Also dunno if bots could counter the moving cursor stuff.

    On second thought mining will still boring. Lol


    Now that's an idea that could actually work. The bots would have trouble seeing the transparent cursor, which can be further mystifying to them by its spinning, and I'd even go a step further by making the mining cursor slowly change color in a random fashion, using hues similar to the stuff it's hovering over. A human would have no difficulty seeing the cursor but bots would be utterly confounded by it.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."