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Why Fly Gallente?
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Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#61 - 2012-02-24 03:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
A couple points I'd like to make - when I go up against a Cane in a Brutix I don't worry about his range - I worry about his neuts. Try running your blasters + invuln while he's got double overheated neuts on you, it doesn't end so well and ECM drones don't always work {which is why I prefer a dual rep Brutix with DPS rigs}.... and scramming a nano BC is incredibly easy unless it's a snake / boosted Drake with 16km webs.

Honestly, every time I log in I pray for a Minmatar ship to be sitting somewhere, waiting for me to come kill it in my Gallente ship, but the truth is people who fly Minmatar generally = people who fly in blobs, because people who think Minmatar are the best are usually the same people who suck at pvp.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#62 - 2012-02-24 04:02:45 UTC
What do you think of the Brutix and the Myrmidon sharing the same armor rep bonus? The Dominix and Ishtar both have hybrid damage bonuses to complement their drones. The myrmidon also seems out of place with the other tier 2 BC, especially if the proposed Drake changes go through.
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#63 - 2012-02-24 04:05:48 UTC
I'm really enjoying my Talos with blasters. /shrug

You can find roles for all the ships in many circumstances. Gallente just doens't have the hurricane or drake that can be fitted for *all* circumstances.

With that said, god I wish the Megathron was just better... just somehow better. A mega-frickin-thon should kill stuff on INC, not give it glancing blows and crap.
Soporo
#64 - 2012-02-24 04:18:06 UTC
WTH.

To the naysayers on page one who seem to think Caldari don't have / require any skills beyond missiles : Merlin, Moa, Harpy, Ferox , lolEagle, Vulture, Rokh. Cald gunships uisually have a launcher only slot as well.

Any Caldari with sense, nowadays especially, trains up both missiles (usually at least 3 types: Light, Heavy and mehTorp up to t2) and hybrids (2 more types and three sizes up to t2). PS: lolCruise.

Caldari (any who arent strictly missioners) train all that, shield stuff, ECM, T2 Light and Medium and ECM drones, and a fair fraction train up armor related sjkills as well. Looks at Scorpion.

Gallente aint screwed skillwise I don't believe, your just not seeing everyone elses ugly forest.

Too bad the Gallente and Caldari hate each other in the fiction, Cald for range and ECM and Gallente for omfgshortrangebbq could roll up New Eden in no time.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#65 - 2012-02-24 06:28:07 UTC
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-02-24 06:43:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'm pretty sure we all know that Tanya Powers won't be satisfied with Gallente until they're the best at everything.

-Liang

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

Gallente: Still fail for PvE. Still fail for PvP.


Blowhards like Liang can sit here and talk about how awesome gallente ships are, but numbers don't lie.

The funniest thing is that for all of the "Caldari are only for pvp" they have ~20x the number of kills than gallente on the list. ****, they have more kills than minmatar.

Bad players afraid of core mechanics changes have basically reduced Amarr and gallente to niche races. There are fundamental changes that need to be made so that there is some freakin' variety in pvp.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#67 - 2012-02-24 15:35:57 UTC
Voith wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'm pretty sure we all know that Tanya Powers won't be satisfied with Gallente until they're the best at everything.

-Liang

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

Gallente: Still fail for PvE. Still fail for PvP.


Blowhards like Liang can sit here and talk about how awesome gallente ships are, but numbers don't lie.

The funniest thing is that for all of the "Caldari are only for pvp" they have ~20x the number of kills than gallente on the list. ****, they have more kills than minmatar.

Bad players afraid of core mechanics changes have basically reduced Amarr and gallente to niche races. There are fundamental changes that need to be made so that there is some freakin' variety in pvp.


well the way you use the numbers is fallacy.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#68 - 2012-02-24 16:16:41 UTC
Voith wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'm pretty sure we all know that Tanya Powers won't be satisfied with Gallente until they're the best at everything.

-Liang

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

Gallente: Still fail for PvE. Still fail for PvP.


Blowhards like Liang can sit here and talk about how awesome gallente ships are, but numbers don't lie.

The funniest thing is that for all of the "Caldari are only for pvp" they have ~20x the number of kills than gallente on the list. ****, they have more kills than minmatar.

Bad players afraid of core mechanics changes have basically reduced Amarr and gallente to niche races. There are fundamental changes that need to be made so that there is some freakin' variety in pvp.


The variety in PVP is there - you just aren't going for it:
- http://kbarmy.heretic-army.biz/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=835925604&view=ships_weapons
- http://vimeo.com/34665420
- http://vimeo.com/35131824
- http://vimeo.com/35642474
- http://vimeo.com/37092811

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-02-24 17:48:49 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
Voith wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'm pretty sure we all know that Tanya Powers won't be satisfied with Gallente until they're the best at everything.

-Liang

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

Gallente: Still fail for PvE. Still fail for PvP.


Blowhards like Liang can sit here and talk about how awesome gallente ships are, but numbers don't lie.

The funniest thing is that for all of the "Caldari are only for pvp" they have ~20x the number of kills than gallente on the list. ****, they have more kills than minmatar.

Bad players afraid of core mechanics changes have basically reduced Amarr and gallente to niche races. There are fundamental changes that need to be made so that there is some freakin' variety in pvp.


well the way you use the numbers is fallacy.

Unless the next ~20 ships are gallente, and have more than 15k kills each, the point stands.


If "facts" disagree with your position, it is because you are wrong. Stop acting like a dumb Republican.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#70 - 2012-02-24 17:59:52 UTC
Voith wrote:

Unless the next ~20 ships are gallente, and have more than 15k kills each, the point stands.


If "facts" disagree with your position, it is because you are wrong. Stop acting like a dumb Republican.


Actually those statistics are misleading. Suppose you have a 10v10, where everyone is in Drakes, and everyone but 1 guy dies (Go go hero Drake!). Assuming that everyone knows how to follow primary (hahahahahaha):
- Drake 1: 10 drakes on it
- Drake 2: 10 drakes on it
- Drake 3: 9 drakes
- Drake 4: 9 drakes
...

So in the end we see 110 Drakes on your list for only 20 combatants. Obviously this is unreasonable.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-02-24 18:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Voith
Liang Nuren wrote:
Voith wrote:

Unless the next ~20 ships are gallente, and have more than 15k kills each, the point stands.


If "facts" disagree with your position, it is because you are wrong. Stop acting like a dumb Republican.


Actually those statistics are misleading. Suppose you have a 10v10, where everyone is in Drakes, and everyone but 1 guy dies (Go go hero Drake!). Assuming that everyone knows how to follow primary (hahahahahaha):
- Drake 1: 10 drakes on it
- Drake 2: 10 drakes on it
- Drake 3: 9 drakes
- Drake 4: 9 drakes
...

So in the end we see 110 Drakes on your list for only 20 combatants. Obviously this is unreasonable.

-Liang

Except this applies to all ship types. It isn't just that "drakes" or "Bob doles" show up multiple times, all ships do.

Indeed since missiles have a delay and guns don't you could argue that drakes are probably underrepresented, since someone who fired may not have ended up in the KM.


Edit: high alpha ships would also have a greater tendency to show, and low alpha, fast firing ships are greater tendency.

You're doing an excellent job of proving me right.
Please continue!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#72 - 2012-02-24 18:23:24 UTC
Voith wrote:

Except this applies to all ship types. It isn't just that "drakes" or "Bob doles" show up multiple times, all ships do.

Indeed since missiles have a delay and guns don't you could argue that drakes are probably underrepresented, since someone who fired may not have ended up in the KM.


It doesn't apply equally to all ship types though - since some ship types are good at blob engagements and others aren't. Ships that engage in blob warfare are:
A) going to legitimately get more kills
B) going to be even more over represented by nature of the multiplicative effect outlined above.

Frankly, I think the problem is that you want Gallente to be the best small gang as well as the best blob warfare ships. Just not gonna happen, and thats ok.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#73 - 2012-02-24 18:31:49 UTC
Voith wrote:

Edit: high alpha ships would also have a greater tendency to show, and low alpha, fast firing ships are greater tendency.

You're doing an excellent job of proving me right.
Please continue!


You really are a dumb republican aren't you?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-02-24 18:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Voith
Liang Nuren wrote:
Voith wrote:

Except this applies to all ship types. It isn't just that "drakes" or "Bob doles" show up multiple times, all ships do.

Indeed since missiles have a delay and guns don't you could argue that drakes are probably underrepresented, since someone who fired may not have ended up in the KM.


It doesn't apply equally to all ship types though - since some ship types are good at blob engagements and others aren't. Ships that engage in blob warfare are:
A) going to legitimately get more kills
B) going to be even more over represented by nature of the multiplicative effect outlined above.

Frankly, I think the problem is that you want Gallente to be the best small gang as well as the best blob warfare ships. Just not gonna happen, and thats ok.

-Liang

Frankly, I think the problem is that you are just terrified of changes that don't benefit you personally.

I realize that your Corp spends apparently half its time camping ammake, so you probably don't have "a clue" about 0.0 you think that big battles are happening 24/7. They aren't. The multiplicative effect you talk about doesn't happen nearly as much as you would think.

Crying about good in fleet and small gang for one race is pretty damn hilarious. Considering Minmatar. And Caldari. And Amarr.
Drakes are prime for fleets, and the ECM boats for small gangs. Tempests for Fleets and the entire frigate/cruiser line and 2 of 3 BCs for small gangs. Abbadons for fleet, Zealots for small gangs.

Why do you think Gallente should be any different?

Oh wait, because like a true publord you rage against anything that doesn't directly benefit you personally.



Liang Nuren wrote:
Voith wrote:

Edit: high alpha ships would also have a greater tendency to show, and low alpha, fast firing ships are greater tendency.

You're doing an excellent job of proving me right.
Please continue!


You really are a dumb republican aren't you?

-Liang

Good job catching a mistake. High Alpha ships have a lower tendency. I started with have a greater tendency to not (Look mah I can use ITALICS too!) show. Then decided that the negative phrasing would be confusing to publords, so I changed it, but forgot to alter the modifier. Sorry!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#75 - 2012-02-24 18:44:37 UTC
Voith wrote:

Frankly, I think the problem is that you are just terrified of changes that don't benefit you personally.


You are being dense. I just posted four PVP videos recorded since late December where I only used blasters. Furthermore, as can be plainly seen by the KB I linked, I pretty much only use blasters. And furthermore, I am effectively nerfproof these days. I don't think CCP could really buff or nerf anything that would benefit or harm me personally.

Nerfproof: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Liang_Nuren
I use blasters: http://kbarmy.heretic-army.biz/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=835925604&view=ships_weapons

So while I may be a "blow hard", I at least make blasters work while you sit there and QQ about why you can't PVP.

Quote:

I realize that your Corp spends apparently half its time camping ammake, so you probably don't have "a clue" about 0.0 you think that big battles are happening 24/7. They aren't. The multiplicative effect you talk about doesn't happen nearly as much as you would think.


You are aware that to the rest of Eve, a 20 man fleet is somewhere between fleet and a blob, while in 0.0 people joke about 100 man small gangs? And no, I'm not under the impression that 0.0 is full of wars and battles that rage 24/7. Hell, that's why almost 30% of the "real" (non shuttle, pod, noobship) total kills in Eve are done in low sec by ~8% of the population.

Quote:

Crying about good in fleet and small gang for one race is pretty damn hilarious. Considering Minmatar and Caldari.

Drakes are prime for fleets, and the ECM boats for small gangs. Tempests for Fleets and the entire frigate/cruiser line and 2 of 3 BCs for small gangs. Abbadons for fleet, Zealots for small gangs.

Why do you think Gallente should be any different?


I am not the one crying here m8. I think that Gallente should excel at small gang combat, and that small gang combat should be plentiful. Fortunately, both are true.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-02-24 18:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Voith
Yeah, so you're down to semantics and insults.

I don't fly gallente, I fly Minmatar. But I'm sick of fighting the same damn fleet comps.


My point was that you wouldn't benefit from pro-"fleet" pvp fixes for gallente, since you're such a HARDKOOORE SMALL GANG ELITE PvPer, but apparently that went right over your head.


Also blasters != gallente

Holy ****, one is a ship type one is a weapon type. I hope (ITALICS!!!!) I don't need to explain the difference to you...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#77 - 2012-02-24 18:58:48 UTC
Voith wrote:
Yeah, so you're down to semantics and insults.

I don't fly gallente, I fly Minmatar. But I'm sick of fighting the same damn fleet comps.


I'm sorry, I was simply returning the insult you offered to the rest of us: that we're simply "dumb republicans". If you feel that's over the top for insulting, maybe you should look a little closer to home eh? Also, if you're so sick of fighting the same "damn fleet comps" maybe you should consider flying in a different meta? Out here in low sec its a toss up for what you're gonna face on any given day. :)

Quote:

My point was that you wouldn't benefit from pro-"fleet" pvp fixes for gallente, since you're such a HARDKOOORE SMALL GANG ELITE PvPer, but apparently that went right over your head.


The simple fact of the matter is that changing Gallente such that they're good at fleets would make them the obvious choice for all PVP. Seriously, they're that dominant at small gang PVP these days.

Quote:

Also blasters != gallente

Holy ****, one is a ship type one is a weapon type. I hope (ITALICS!!!!) I don't need to explain the difference to you...


That's not as true as you'd really think. In a great many ways, the game has been designed around Gallente = Blasters+Drones and Caldari = Missiles+Rails.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-02-24 19:07:52 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Voith wrote:
Yeah, so you're down to semantics and insults.

I don't fly gallente, I fly Minmatar. But I'm sick of fighting the same damn fleet comps.


I'm sorry, I was simply returning the insult you offered to the rest of us: that we're simply "dumb republicans". If you feel that's over the top for insulting, maybe you should look a little closer to home eh? Also, if you're so sick of fighting the same "damn fleet comps" maybe you should consider flying in a different meta? Out here in low sec its a toss up for what you're gonna face on any given day. :)

Quote:

My point was that you wouldn't benefit from pro-"fleet" pvp fixes for gallente, since you're such a HARDKOOORE SMALL GANG ELITE PvPer, but apparently that went right over your head.


The simple fact of the matter is that changing Gallente such that they're good at fleets would make them the obvious choice for all PVP. Seriously, they're that dominant at small gang PVP these days.

Quote:

Also blasters != gallente

Holy ****, one is a ship type one is a weapon type. I hope (ITALICS!!!!) I don't need to explain the difference to you...


That's not as true as you'd really think. In a great many ways, the game has been designed around Gallente = Blasters+Drones and Caldari = Missiles+Rails.

-Liang

So, gallente are COMPLETELY DOMINANT in small gang pvp, but you run into a constant mix in Low Sec.


Pro-tip when bullshitting: Make sure you're consistent.

Then why are you fitting blasters on a caldari ship? Could there be fundamental difference between Caldari and Gallente ships that make them better at using blasters? If so isn't it dumb that gallente get out classed in their own racial weapon type?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#79 - 2012-02-24 19:10:24 UTC
I'm confused as to what the argument here even is. Gallente cannot and will not be great at big fleet PvP (0.0 or otherwise) until people get off their ass with the long range sniper setups and risk their ships by fighting at close range. Drones are not enough of a long range weapon system (sentries notwithstanding), and railgun-fit Gallente ships will always be under-par compared to the other races, all of which get specializations in long range combat (railguns, beam lasers, scorch/pulse, artillery).

Gallente are better than ever in small gang PvP where you can get up close and personal with the enemy. That allows them to use the various hybrid damage/falloff/tracking bonuses they get, plus be able to take advantage of their dronebays by being able to hotswap drones (for aggro management or swapping drone types).

Stop using KB numbers for evidence, as they are all bollocks. Unless you are able to take them with a giant grain of salt, don't use them at all. They will make you sound like an idiot.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#80 - 2012-02-24 19:11:31 UTC
Voith wrote:
Then why are you fitting blasters on a caldari ship? Could there be fundamental difference between Caldari and Gallente ships that make them better at using blasters? If so isn't it dumb that gallente get out classed in their own racial weapon type?


Post-buff Harpy is sort of broken. Liang is just taking advantage of that.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)