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Hulk Buff or new 0.0 Miner

Author
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#21 - 2012-02-22 14:47:35 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
So you don't think that NRDS would attract more miners than NBSI ?
***everything else***


Even if an alliance in 0.0 incorporated a NRDS policy, they have very little resources to devote towards protecting every prospective miner from being attacked by low-sec pirates (who don't always respect NRDS rules). And yes, low-sec pirates do sneak into 0.0 whenever they feel like it. This is also not accounting for the looming threat of another alliance wanting control of that region.

So, the NRDS may be respected and enforced by one alliance, but other alliances are not obligated to respect it unless they are allies (but allies don't stay allies forever).

You are absolutely correct to assume that a low-sec or 0.0 system with a NRDS policy towards neutral miners will attract the attention of more miners, but don't ignore the fact that this also attracts pirates and enemy alliances wanting to grief said miners.

Adapt or Die

Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#22 - 2012-02-22 15:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
I'm sure there's a point there somewhere, but it eludes me. I was refuting his point that "mining is ok, because I live in providence and I see miners all the time".

You seem to have got lost on a tangent. I hear maps are being sold in the lobby for those who get lost over minor points that have no bearing on the conversation about mining.

If you've ever lived in providence you'd know CVA runs intel channels for public non-blues who wish to live in provi or the low-sec corridors connecting to empire - making it carebear heaven for many.

Either way, ridiculous to think his point is valid for the multitude when he sais "Mining is fine because I see miners every day and I live in 0.0" when he lives in the one NRDS bit of 0.0 in the entire map.

Congrats for making the conversation that much more stupid though.

.

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#23 - 2012-02-22 18:28:29 UTC


Hmm.
In the last few minutes I just figured out how I can get 30K+ EHP on a Hulk, and still have 3x T2 Strip miners.
Not including gang bonuses and overheating effects. No expensive mods required.

I also figured out how to get 22K+ EHP on a Mackinaw, with 2x T2 Ice Harvesters.
Not including gang bonuses and overheating effects. No expensive mods required.

I'm pretty sure a Catalyst (or two) can't kill either.

Maybe instead of WHINING for a buff like an idiot noob, you should put away the Expanded Cargohold II's and Cap Recharger II's and learn how to tank your 150-200M ISK investment.

How stupid are you people?

Miners have to learn how to fit their ships for something other than 'max mining yield'.

Entitled carebears who think they are exempt from the rules that everyone else plays by because they 'aren't looking for PVP'.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#24 - 2012-02-22 21:01:21 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:


Hmm.
In the last few minutes I just figured out how I can get 30K+ EHP on a Hulk, and still have 3x T2 Strip miners.
Not including gang bonuses and overheating effects. No expensive mods required.

I also figured out how to get 22K+ EHP on a Mackinaw, with 2x T2 Ice Harvesters.
Not including gang bonuses and overheating effects. No expensive mods required.

I'm pretty sure a Catalyst (or two) can't kill either.

Maybe instead of WHINING for a buff like an idiot noob, you should put away the Expanded Cargohold II's and Cap Recharger II's and learn how to tank your 150-200M ISK investment.

How stupid are you people?

Miners have to learn how to fit their ships for something other than 'max mining yield'.

Entitled carebears who think they are exempt from the rules that everyone else plays by because they 'aren't looking for PVP'.


Yeah because posting from TEARS alliance about max EHP on your mad hulk EFT fittings is pro.

Please tell us more.

.

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#25 - 2012-02-22 21:36:13 UTC
Lets recap.
Clueless, whining, grammar challenged OP states:

"What do you guys think about getting the hulk buffed for more cpu / powergrid. this should be done so that the 0.0 miners can tank there ship without having to buy hundreds of millions worth of ship."

Other idiot miners are like "YEAH, no fair that a Catalyst can blow up an Exhumer."

So I helpfully point out that its quite easy with T2 fittings to tank a Hulk above 30K EHP - without sacrificing a single Strip Miner.

The problem is not that Hulks cannot be tanked - its that miners steadfastly refuse to do it - and then wonder why a single destroyer can kill them in highsec.

Posting as a TEARS member is always pro. But especially when I know more about tanking Hulks than 99% of the whiners on here. Makes them easier to kill.

Seriously, and thats just high sec. WTF is 'extra grid/cpu' going to do for a Hulk in 0.0?

Is he really thinking "Yeah, this Curse has me locked and scrammed, but I'm good to go - I've got LSE II's now."







Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#26 - 2012-02-22 21:49:09 UTC
So what you're saying is you're pro because you can gank high-sec miners in a catalyst with your buds and he can't defend himself.

Funny, once upon a time being pro meant killing 100 guys with 20 guys.

Now the best entertainment in eve is attacking dudes who are obviously kinda new to the game in ways they can't defend themselves against and happen to be part of an in-game profession which is already on the decline apart from botters and rmters.

Yeah I'm really glad you spoke up. There should be heaps more of it, perhaps then we can all go back to our masturbating and world of warcraft.

Roll

.

Leto Atraities
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-02-22 22:01:48 UTC
i think this game needs a T5 hulk with 8 strip miners, can field a 100k hitpoint tank, 250k m3 cargo and can align like an interceptor. make it happen ccp. make it happen.

no seriously! i'm really serious. Shocked

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#28 - 2012-02-22 22:06:00 UTC

Ganking miners is fun. And its profitable too. Those Intact Armor Plates and T2 Strips are worth ganking for.

Where do you get this bullcrap? "They can't defend themselves".

I just stated, twice: You can tank a Hulk up to 30K with minimal skills. And still mine with 3 T2 Strips.

There is a difference between 'They can't defend themselves' and 'They choose not to defend themselves'.

Ganking them is doing them a service - a 'free education' in how EVE works.

The smart ones learn to tank. The dim ones tend to post here and make comments similar to yours.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#29 - 2012-02-22 22:18:54 UTC
Pretty sure I'm bored now... Yep bored.

.

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#30 - 2012-02-22 22:28:55 UTC
Whine more intelligently next time.
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-02-23 09:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Death Killer21 wrote:
Yep good idea. That is what i think needed doing. You really need tyo balance out the exumers so that you cant gank them solo with just a destroyer.


Sorry dude - you are just completely fail. Even my max-yield Hulks can resist a solo-destroyer-gank without any problems. Quite sure you are just doing it the wrong way. Whining guys like you are the reason, why miners / industrial Carebears have such a bad image of always being pussys.

Buffing Mining ships further will not solve anything, except that lazy people can earn a little more money without doing anything for it. And believe me: If CCP would generate a T3 Mining Ship with 50k EHP and it costs 1B ISK. other's and possible me in an alt as well will visit you with 4x BCs and shoot your T3 Mining Ship out of this universe, for fun and for the tears! If other corporations start mining in our HiSec mining base system we use our neutral alts and their T3 BCs to show them, that they are not welcome!

PS: I just have a new idea, which is as clever as yours: CCP can you please add 250k EHP to my Mammoth and maybe tripple the freight space? Thanks that would be nice. Doesn't make sense, but makes my live easier. And btw. Can you please also add 8 slots for Stripminers to my Orca and increase the ore cargohold to 1.000.000 m3, so that my Orca is not only giving boost when I support our mining fleet? And CCP, can you please als just make this game for free, because it would be easier for me and I can spend my real money for other things? Oh wait ... can you please as well make the whole Eve Univers a 100% 1.0 HiSec system? That would be great. Stop - I have another idea, which solves all the problems: Transfer please 100 Billion ISK to everybody and change the market to a NPC market, where all items cost only 1 ISK? That would be fantastic.

If anybody find's sarcasm in above post, he can keep it for himself.

PS: With regard to "Procurer should be the miners starter ship" statement: The Procurer is the mining barge startet ship. It's just that you can use Cruisers and other ships as well for Mining. Following your argumentation even the Retriever is not a useful mining ship, because a Rokh can mine more Ore than a Retriever. That means CCP just have one real option: Delete standard Mining Lasers from the game!
Death Killer21
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2012-02-23 11:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Death Killer21
Herr Wilkus wrote:


Hmm.
In the last few minutes I just figured out how I can get 30K+ EHP on a Hulk, and still have 3x T2 Strip miners.
Not including gang bonuses and overheating effects. No expensive mods required.

I also figured out how to get 22K+ EHP on a Mackinaw, with 2x T2 Ice Harvesters.
Not including gang bonuses and overheating effects. No expensive mods required.

I'm pretty sure a Catalyst (or two) can't kill either.

Maybe instead of WHINING for a buff like an idiot noob, you should put away the Expanded Cargohold II's and Cap Recharger II's and learn how to tank your 150-200M ISK investment.

How stupid are you people?

Miners have to learn how to fit their ships for something other than 'max mining yield'.

Entitled carebears who think they are exempt from the rules that everyone else plays by because they 'aren't looking for PVP'.


Ok les put away the expanded carhgohold 2's shall we. O **** ive run out of space to put the ore in my cargo. Dam my miners have deactivated. O dear ive only mined enuf ore to fill 3km3. Thats one strip miner's yeidl> Thats a ,masssive loss. For gods sake think, if we switched to stop using expanded cargo, we wudnt mine anything as we wud keep running out of sapce!

Stop mining for max yeild. Ok well loose out on money shall we?

Death killer21

Caldari and amarr Mission service.  Contact me for more info

Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-02-23 11:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Quote
Stop mining for max yield
unquote

Are you serious? No you can't be serious with this statement!

Just one well-intentioned advice: Stop posting!

You just make yourself ridiculous! If you have no idea about how you do mining the right way you shouldn't try to guess. And even in one of my Cargo-Hulks no destroyer can solo-gank me! Maybe a fully level 5-skilled T3 BC or Battleship, but no destroyer! So even there you are wrong.

Again: Better stop posting before everybody, I mean really everybody is laughing about you.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#34 - 2012-02-23 13:12:29 UTC
Death Killer21 wrote:


Ok les put away the expanded carhgohold 2's shall we. O **** ive run out of space to put the ore in my cargo. Dam my miners have deactivated. O dear ive only mined enuf ore to fill 3km3. Thats one strip miner's yeidl> Thats a ,masssive loss. For gods sake think, if we switched to stop using expanded cargo, we wudnt mine anything as we wud keep running out of sapce!

Stop mining for max yeild. Ok well loose out on money shall we?[/quote]

Hulk has ~8k m3 base
Mack has ~6k


Both are perfectly capable of fitting a full cycle from all fitted miners/harvesters (note, you *may* need to stagger things a bit ... crazy, I know).

@ Herr --> I'm getting close, but can't quite hit 30k EHP... I'm assuming you're using implants or something that I'm not thinking about...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#35 - 2012-02-23 14:28:34 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
I'm getting close, but can't quite hit 30k EHP... I'm assuming you're using implants or something that I'm not thinking about...


After extensively fitting my Hulk for maximum tank, I learned that you can get close to 30k (even without named/faction mods). But in order to hit the 30K mark, you will need tank-boosting implants (I can't remember the names right now), along with someone who can provide fleets boosts for tanks (an Orca can field three active links at once), and if you overheat your modules right before them pesky Catalysts start shooting at you (have nanite repair paste on hand).

I have to agree with the TEAR guy. There is a major difference between not being able to defend one's self as a miner and choosing not to defend one's self as a miner.

Also, the miner can ask a buddy to haul the haul for them as they mine and split the profits however they so chose to agree on (not all sharing has to be 50/50 you know). If the miner is in a player-run corp, that player can take the opportunity to join corp-sponsored mining ops and take advantage of the fleet boosts for yield to make up for the loss of yield because of the tank.

TIPS:


  • Fit Hulk with balanced mix of a little bit of shield buffer mixed with good amount of resistance across the board.
  • When fitting for resistance, take into account the resistance of your armor. Focusing too much resistance on EM shields will leave you vulnerable on other resists.
  • Don't forget about the Damage Control II module. That is an important factor for armor resists. I hope I am preaching to the choir about this.
  • If you can field an alt that can shield rep you (shield repping is a must if you have a logi), the added shield boost will compliment the well-balanced shield resistance.


A well tanked Hulk will stand up to a DPS Brutix.

Adapt or Die

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#36 - 2012-02-23 19:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Here's a fit that I use. I know it doesn't have max EHP, but it has worked for me.

I don't AFK mine. I am constantly on dscan (a habit I acquired from 2.5 years of living in w-space), and watching local count and chat.

I overheat and / or warp out when things look suspicious (hardeners last a couple of minutes when overheated, but the Orca carries Nanite Repair Paste if needed).

I let the Orca pilot deal with belt rats.

At a minimum, the Orca runs two mining links and a Siege Warfare: Shield Harmonizing link, but I usually run with three mining links and a max skill and mindlink implanted Siege Warfare booster in a Tengu. I'm currently training a max skill and minlink implanted armor booster in a Legion to join my little fleet (I have way too many accounts).

You can substitute a Viscoelastic EM Ward Salubrity I for the CN amp if you want.

[Hulk, Hisec]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Invulnerability Field II
Caldari Navy Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I
Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5



The following fit is probably better, but I've never used it myself:

[Hulk, Tanked]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Velicitia
XS Tech
#37 - 2012-02-23 20:40:06 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:
who can provide fleets boosts for tanks (an Orca can field three active links at once), and if you overheat your modules right before them pesky Catalysts start shooting at you (have nanite repair paste on hand).


ah right, always forget about setting ganglinks when fitting in EFT. Lol
... does leave a nice surprise on EHP when I'm in space then

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-02-24 09:01:26 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
So what you're saying is you're pro because you can gank high-sec miners in a catalyst with your buds and he can't defend himself.

Funny, once upon a time being pro meant killing 100 guys with 20 guys.

Now the best entertainment in eve is attacking dudes who are obviously kinda new to the game in ways they can't defend themselves against and happen to be part of an in-game profession which is already on the decline apart from botters and rmters.

Yeah I'm really glad you spoke up. There should be heaps more of it, perhaps then we can all go back to our masturbating and world of warcraft.

Roll



Dude, stfu and stop trolling. He was just trying to help the OP figure out how to get a better tank on his hulk..Your the moron who started all this talk about being pro crap...


Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#39 - 2012-02-24 14:00:34 UTC
Raw Hulk, Level V skills, no special implants, no gang bonuses, no tank at all = 9027 EHP (according to EFT). That goes up to 9800 if you fit the standard (1) Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II. (I have no sympathy for those who do not fit a DC2.)

Hulk w/ (1) DC2, (1) MLU2, (2) Invuln2, (2) Shield Extender Rigs - 22.2k EHP, 263M ISK

Hulk w/ (1) DC2, (1) Reinforced Bulkheads II, (2) Invuln2, (2) Small Azeo Shields, (2) Shield Extender Rigs - 27.6k, 270M ISK

Add bonuses from a Level V Orca Pilot, with a Shield Harm T2 gang link running (but no siege warfare mindlink, just the mining director mindlink), and the DC2/RB2 fit goes up to 31.4k EHP.

Overloading the invuln2 modules (2m 30s duration) gives you a temporary boost of about 10.5% EHP.

The Zainou Gnome KVA series implants add 1%/3%/5% to shield amounts (which is about 1k EHP on the DC2/RB2 fit). The Noble ZET3### series add hull hit points, but do not have much effect (about half the effect that the shield implant has).

All of which doesn't change my mind that the barges / exhumers need a balancing pass. It would not take much at all in the addition of more CPU/PG (and slots on the barges) for them to come up to the current game environment. For the Hulk, that would mean enough PG/CPU added so that they could fit (1 or 2) medium shield extenders instead of only being able to fit smalls.
TheBlueMonkey
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#40 - 2012-02-24 14:01:05 UTC
I agree, they should buff the hulk so it can strip an entire belt in 30min just by pressing f1 once.

**sarcasm maybe present in this post**
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