These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#21 - 2012-02-23 20:22:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:


Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though


And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion?

As well as the very steep rise all minerals.

Im sorry, but you are just too stupid to be an industrialist. You know nothing about what the markets have been doing nore have you bothered to look at the records which show rising prices while sales stay steady.



Freighters Baltec hey ... more wartargets....I suppose as far as being an industrialist , time will tell.....

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#22 - 2012-02-23 20:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Came here looking for a discussion about isk/hour left seeing it degenerate into a arguement about isk fountains versus mineral fountains... LIKE IT OR NOT THE TECH MOONS ARE A HUGE MINERAL FOUNTAIN OWNED BY A VERY FEW... incursions are a large (not huge) isk fountain not owned by anyone (except maybe in NULL SOVs) but run by many... which is better or worse? neither probably would adding more moons do anything but concentrate the wealth in the hands of a few (not good in my huble opinion except to add to the # of T2 products )? Incursion spawns right now seem to be at a happy medium & increasing the number too would bring too much inflation ( not good except maybe to price out bot RMTers ).
I'm of the economic school that a little inflation is much better then any deflation. The arguement over Incursion ISK inflation is good to put out there but so is mineral inflation/deflation
A bigger problem methinks is if drones got bounties put on them (which is being discussed) instead of droping alloys then the price (inflation) of EVE minerals would really have the crud hit the fan!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-02-23 20:31:57 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:



Freighters Baltec hey ... more wartargets....I suppose as far as being an industrialist , time will tell.....


As I said, stupid.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-02-23 20:50:11 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.


So when did you buy this toonie with your iskies, m8m8?
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#25 - 2012-02-23 21:01:15 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.


So when did you buy this toonie with your iskies, m8m8?



A swing and a miss from a random goon troll, with the bases loaded thats got hurt the prospect of the goons leaving this thread looking anything but stupid especially with Baltec at the plate Twisted

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Jita Alt666
#26 - 2012-02-23 21:24:19 UTC
What is the point of this thread?
It appears that the OP is just arguing with everyone on topics not really specific to the OP.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#27 - 2012-02-23 21:28:12 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
What is the point of this thread?
It appears that the OP is just arguing with everyone on topics not really specific to the OP.



Discusion of branch into sub discusion about points raised, are you not familiar with this concept?

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Aldous Sancros
Fidelis Limited
#28 - 2012-02-23 21:29:33 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:


Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though


And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion?

As well as the very steep rise all minerals.

Im sorry, but you are just too stupid to be an industrialist. You know nothing about what the markets have been doing nore have you bothered to look at the records which show rising prices while sales stay steady.



Freighters Baltec hey ... more wartargets....I suppose as far as being an industrialist , time will tell.....


What isn't a war target, in your resoning, then? I suppose it's true that the price of an Ibis hasn't nudged since way back when...that might be one of the only things.
Jita Alt666
#29 - 2012-02-23 21:37:16 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
What is the point of this thread?
It appears that the OP is just arguing with everyone on topics not really specific to the OP.



Discusion of branch into sub discusion about points raised, are you not familiar with this concept?



Yes I am, it often is termed as derailment. In this thread it appears the OP is the catalyst for said "branch into sub discussion".

I never discuss anything with my subs. I just tell.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-02-23 21:52:58 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
They also cause inflation and promote "No risk = Big Cash" gameplay

imo


No such thing as no risk. It's just not the kind of risk that many players consider to be 'risk'.
"If."
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#31 - 2012-02-23 22:16:38 UTC
Aldous Sancros wrote:


What isn't a war target, in your resoning, then? I suppose it's true that the price of an Ibis hasn't nudged since way back when...that might be one of the only things.


High seccers tend to be very careful with there missioning and mining equipment and I think mostly there market isn't 'use' it's the fact the are worth X minerals as a commodity.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#32 - 2012-02-23 22:18:35 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:



Yes I am, it often is termed as derailment.


I would consider that disscusion entirely unrelated to the OP, not connected issues that may be relevant to the overall debate.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2012-02-23 22:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Professor Alphane wrote:
What is worrying about Incursion and should be addresed is that in this tiered system only one tier gets most of the atttention suggesting an inbalance in the tiers rather than an imbalance in the size of the reward..

Thats how I see it all anyway


That's how CCP and most MMO companies work.

They know that people with existing habits and production lines / lucrative avenues won't switch for something new on par with the old.

Furthermore CCP and most MMO companies are unsure that their new feature will be appreciated, therefore they make it overpowered and slam it in the game.

Later on, players WILL find ways to exploit the still fresh feature plus it was overpowered to begin with.

The usual outcome is that the exploits get closed (after making some people rich or banned), the new feature is over-nerfed and people start wanting something new and "worthwhile".

Next patch, they'll get the new shiny "worthwhile" content, and it will be shiny and overpowered. The cycle restarts.

Edit:
In level based MMOs, the companies flush the old content by making it obsolete as they introduce those 5-10 new levels at next expansion. CCP and the likes cannot, they only have the "put in overpowered new stuff => nerf it => put in something else newer" cycle.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ai Shun
#34 - 2012-02-23 22:37:40 UTC
I'm having a bad Atticus flashback.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#35 - 2012-02-23 23:33:17 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
What is worrying about Incursion and should be addresed is that in this tiered system only one tier gets most of the atttention suggesting an inbalance in the tiers rather than an imbalance in the size of the reward..

Thats how I see it all anyway


That's how CCP and most MMO companies work.

They know that people with existing habits and production lines / lucrative avenues won't switch for something new on par with the old.

Furthermore CCP and most MMO companies are unsure that their new feature will be appreciated, therefore they make it overpowered and slam it in the game.

Later on, players WILL find ways to exploit the still fresh feature plus it was overpowered to begin with.

The usual outcome is that the exploits get closed (after making some people rich or banned), the new feature is over-nerfed and people start wanting something new and "worthwhile".

Next patch, they'll get the new shiny "worthwhile" content, and it will be shiny and overpowered. The cycle restarts.

Edit:
In level based MMOs, the companies flush the old content by making it obsolete as they introduce those 5-10 new levels at next expansion. CCP and the likes cannot, they only have the "put in overpowered new stuff => nerf it => put in something else newer" cycle.



Thats a very difficult balance and really requires an intimate knowledge of how good your players actually are and what is technologically possible, the best content IMO is difficult but not impossible to complete, though participating has some rewards completion pays better.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#36 - 2012-02-23 23:35:35 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
I'm having a bad Atticus flashback.



Simple answer to that is don't do LSD while bullying over enthusiastics noob on the forums.....Simples Twisted

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#37 - 2012-02-24 13:06:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion?

As well as the very steep rise all minerals.



Mexallon. Have you ever built a freighter? Do you have any idea of the sheer volume of mexallon needed? The price of mexallon has increased by at least 33% if not more, ever since the release of T3 battlecruisers (which also require a relatively large amount of mexallon). Because mexallon is a relatively scarce mineral the increased demand for mexallon has increased its prices. Market speculation has done the rest.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2012-02-24 13:24:30 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
incursions are a large (not huge) isk fountain
No, it's pretty darn huge. At least 30× larger than missions on a per-character basis, and third-largest faucet overall in the game, in spite of being used by only a very small number of people.
Professor Alphane wrote:
So both theory and observation say 'Infaltion in EVE is mostly a Myth'
…except that both theory and observation says that there is indeed inflation — about 13% a year, to be exact.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#39 - 2012-02-24 14:16:41 UTC
actually op is right that there is limit how much incursions can create isk and i suppose that's only minor fraction of all isk generated. if you actually have competition on running sites you make 0 isk if you cant win sites.

even vg's are pretty reasonable if you think everyone would have only 1 toon in fleet. after that everything become to point i've been saying ... hurrdurr since 2007. If you put some alts in use you tripledoublequadruple it to ridiculous amounts. Although same goes for wormholes etc. pve activity, even mining, too so kind of moot point in that sense. i can tell that just doing incursions with one toon isn't that great isk even if not overall bad either but i know for sure that you can generate same by doing something else too.

i'd say bigger problem than incursions is this alts online gaming ccp encourages. it's not rare thing to have corpies with 10 alt accounts nowadays and all they complain is not having isk cos they got to pay 10 plex a month then they go sit in incursions/missions/wh's all day. :D
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-02-24 14:32:21 UTC
Inflation is only an negative side effect of incursions. The by far bigger issue is that it destroys the risk/reward.
And yes, tech moons are also an issue however you have to be able to protect them in order to farm that minerals. You donÄt have to fight at all for high sec incursions. There is absically no risk involved for high payout. Thus, incursions should be a low sec only feature.
Previous page123Next page