Jita Park Speakers Corner

this

also: remove abc from w-space

Bump for what could be a nice debate.

If you have any other questions, dont hesitate to ask in this thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=764317#post764317

I think you are looking for mittens, though he is part of a not so silent minority.

To be honest, the minerals from drones is only *1* facet of problems that have plagued miners for a longass time.

What about the fact that most 0.0 alliances, plainly, just don't want you around.

I have just left BDEAL, where I personally pvp'd non-stop for the month I spent there. The reasons I left were not to do with mining. However, while PVPing there was a constant "omg the miners are in the back pocket jewing again" conversation going on...

I hear CCP is going to try and get rid of moon mining altogether. Why not change the moon minerals to be in the grav sites instead of ABC ores - much like gas sites in wormholes.

The present OTHER issues (not including the money per hour) for choosing mining as a profession as opposed to just going in a drake and ratting/plexing are:

We have to scan these grav sites down.
When we do, it's not a soloable thing.

A PVPer goes into a system and plexes every day. He gets all those hours doing plexes and earning cash. When he finishes a plex a new one appears.
So too with mining, with the exception that when we get into a grav site it takes 3 days to mine that ******* useless spodzilla out before we can get to the new site with AB in it.

Let's face it why even include Crokite anymore? Hemorphite found in low-sec is now more profitable to mine than crokite.

AB are the only ores worthwhile in 0.0 anymore and there's precious little of it. Otherwise we might as well be in low/highsec and take little/no risk - certainly without the annoyances of cloakers and the like.

Or just do plexes/incursions and let the mineral prices rise a bit more.

Also the ship we need to mine in is twice as expensive as most ratting drakes and has the tank of a t1 cruiser and earns half as much. In the meantime they also get the bonus of the odd easteregg office spawn that could earn anywhere from 1b-8b. While they are rare, you only need 1 a year to set you up.

I won't even go on about earning 500m a day doing incursions as CCP already knows about this.

Eve has not grown, only the number of people living in new eden has. The days of regular ninja mining and covertly putting a tower up to mine from are far gone. New Eden needs to expand. Space is supposed to be vast. So where is the wilderness of new eden? The place is full to overflowing with people in every system you go in.

All of these inconsistencies and plain pain that CCP has built into the system need some kind of balance put in where we can earn a decent living doing what we like to do in the game AND that 0.0 alliances find us worthwhile to have around. While mineral prices have changed drastically over the past years presenting that as the most pressing issue facing mining corps and miners in general, it is NOT THE ONLY ISSUE.


Mittens thinks that "the single biggest issue" for miners is the mineral price, but neglects to understand that most miners are not PVPers and while many would like to be in 0.0 just like him - they can't get there - and when they do, it's rarely worth it.

p.s I totally agree with OP about the botters, they need to go and CCP should be doing more about that **** too.

A good read, thanks.

If it's just clicks it will be defeated by whatever botting program is out there. If it's words (i.e. captcha or something similar), it will just serve to make mining a somehow even more annoying profession than it is. Hugely prone to abuse as well - imagine flying in and tagging every single member of a mining op. It also loses most of its effectiveness if someone is playing with audio disabled.

sounds like a great way to kill anyone who autopilots to jita, and something every bot will be programmed to instantly shut off

Since I am the only CSM 7 candidate that has made mining my major focus I am happy to address some things I think need to happen.

1. While drone loot changes will put money in miners pockets, isk per hour is not the only problem with mining. To think make that change and mining is fine is just wrong.

2. CCP clearly is not serious about making mining with bots go away. You could easily modify the UI to make screen scraping harder and change client internals to make more sophisticated bots more difficult. In addition patches could change those internal elements regularly to break any bots that did manage to overcome the more complicated requirements. (before anyone says "cannot" I'm a software engineer by trade, I know what I'm talking about).

3. The casual social mining experience we have today should remain, be we are long overdue for another level of mining. There should be new things to mine (comets that drop moon goo for example), new ships and fittings and the upper level of mining should be dynamic (for example ore that can produce multiple minerals that you have to select and mining lasers and drones the need real time input to produce optimal results). Maybe introduce rocks that could require archaeology to recover ancient artifacts.

Think about how combat and mining differ. In combat I make active choices about ships selection and configuration and my real skills affect the outcome. At the highest level mining should offer that same experience.

Those are my ideas, but I want to point out I am creating a panel of advisers to help brainstorm the best suggestions to offer CCP.

I'd be glad to answer any specific questions of offer more details to anyone that is interested.

Bottom line, mining has never really changed. Mining needs to be more than isks/hour. It need fun per hour and diversity in challenges that are more in line with combat.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate

Nice to see how we got the ball rolling here. Let's keep this up guys.

As for some of you who posted links to my thread in your signatures, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I also greatly appreciate that the people here have remained quite civilized in this discussion.

Revolution Rising, you are absolutely right when you say that if anyone here in the forums wants the mining profession to be iterated on then they will have to make sure they make their voices heard. If no one tries, then no one should be surprised if this doesn't get iterated on in the foreseeable future.