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Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

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Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#1 - 2012-02-23 18:13:56 UTC
Ok I was thinking on the whole 'Too much Isk in Incusions' disscusion.

Now a lot of isk/hr are quoted and bandied around as if this is the be all and end all of the assesment in reality it isn't


Other interesting things to note about Incursions

They have a limited Spawn rate over time

They have a limited number of people who can reasonabily be involved

Comparitivley very few people can be involoved.

Now consider Null sec and the number of moons out there and how much each one is worth a day.

Or a jita trader with 50B collatoral

These are things anyone (?) can possibly do not like incursion at all that are limited compative events for reasonably large prizes.

What is worrying about Incursion and should be addresed is that in this tiered system only one tier gets most of the atttention suggesting an inbalance in the tiers rather than an imbalance in the size of the reward..

Thats how I see it all anyway

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#2 - 2012-02-23 18:17:41 UTC
They also cause inflation and promote "No risk = Big Cash" gameplay

imo

The pie is a tautology
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-02-23 18:25:02 UTC
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.

Go back and rethink your argument.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2012-02-23 18:29:36 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.

Go back and rethink your argument.


This.

OP try again.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#5 - 2012-02-23 18:30:18 UTC
Very poor

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Tore Vest
#6 - 2012-02-23 18:31:27 UTC
Nerf Jita traders

No troll.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#7 - 2012-02-23 18:37:56 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.

Go back and rethink your argument.



Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though.

Not entirely sure the premise more isk = inflation (plex maybe an exception to this) in an economy where cost is clearly defined as NPC product and refining, where there is very little % set up cost ie an unfeasibly agile market. and such a competative combative selling arena.

TLDR you basically can't inflate the price of a product in EVE much because of the way the crafting<>Auction House system works

As you where kind enough to give me advice though, I'll return the favour. Go back rethink your assumtions about New Eden they may not be true even if they are they may not remain true everything changes.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Chiggy W
Hard-Luck Industries
#8 - 2012-02-23 18:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Chiggy W
Professor Alphane wrote:



Now consider Null sec and the number of moons out there and how much each one is worth a day.

Or a jita trader with 50B collatoral



OK, then

Professor Alphane wrote:

Nex apparatu5 wrote:


Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.

Go back and rethink your argument..




Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though.


What?

The fact is he's right, regardless of wether you think so or not. A Jita trader doesn't introduce ISK, it simply moves between two people, and as for moons, they don't print ISK, they produce an item for which ISK trades hands, just like Veldespar. The fact that some moon goo trades for 120K Isk P.U rather than 5 Isk P.U is irrelevant.

Really, go back and think about this (hint, a good example would be ratting or missions, both of which inject less ISK per hour/per player than incursions)
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-02-23 19:06:57 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.

Go back and rethink your argument.



Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though.

Not entirely sure the premise more isk = inflation (plex maybe an exception to this) in an economy where cost is clearly defined as NPC product and refining, where there is very little % set up cost ie an unfeasibly agile market. and such a competative combative selling arena.

TLDR you basically can't inflate the price of a product in EVE much because of the way the crafting<>Auction House system works

As you where kind enough to give me advice though, I'll return the favour. Go back rethink your assumtions about New Eden they may not be true even if they are they may not remain true everything changes.

You don't really have a clue how things work do you?

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#10 - 2012-02-23 19:20:53 UTC
As this is a discusion on Lies , Damn lies, and Statstics

And no one has posted any of the third to disprove my asserstions I can only assume the rest of the posts must be one of the first 2 Blink

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
M5 Tuttle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-02-23 19:33:26 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Neither a Jita trader nor moons create isk. In fact, because of trading fees, these sink isk.

Go back and rethink your argument.



Interestin arguement, kinda irrelevant to my point, interesting though.

Not entirely sure the premise more isk = inflation (plex maybe an exception to this) in an economy where cost is clearly defined as NPC product and refining, where there is very little % set up cost ie an unfeasibly agile market. and such a competative combative selling arena.


It is absolutely relevant. And yes, more currency = inflation as long as supply of goods doesn't also increase, or currency increases more quickly than supply. This is the definition of inflation, and exactly what is happening and why you are wrong.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#12 - 2012-02-23 19:33:51 UTC
Chiggy W wrote:
ISK per hour/per player


Ok I apologise , I'll be generous and accept this as a mathmatical equation.

Then my arguement would be

isk/hr/player

does not fully represent the situation to my mind you must consider

isk/hr/player/player slot available


[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#13 - 2012-02-23 19:40:39 UTC
M5 Tuttle wrote:


It is absolutely relevant. And yes, more currency = inflation as long as supply of goods doesn't also increase, or currency increases more quickly than supply. This is the definition of inflation, and exactly what is happening and why you are wrong.


or anyone can quickly and easily supply in a market where generally supply far outstrips demand in most sectors and most crafted property becomes chips in market PvP.

What IS inflating is the massive silent war machine sat round in thousands of stations and crop hangers across EVE.

If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.

So both theory and observation say 'Infaltion in EVE is mostly a Myth'

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2012-02-23 20:06:35 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:


If you check my 'birth date' you will see I joined EVE many years ago, Prices have changed little from then , the amount of ISK in the market is huge since then.

So both theory and observation say 'Infaltion in EVE is mostly a Myth'



In the past few months drakes have risen by around 10 million and are still on the up. Everything is more expensive now than 3 months ago and is rising at a faster rate than I have seen in the past 6 years.

Before saying these things you might want to look at the market data which is freely available.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#15 - 2012-02-23 20:07:58 UTC
In your experience yes, but then you PvP so that is the limited corner of the market that supply and demand effects the most.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2012-02-23 20:12:36 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
In your experience yes, but then you PvP so that is the limited corner of the market that supply and demand effects the most.


I suppose the noctis, hulks and ravens are also massivly used in pvp too?
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#17 - 2012-02-23 20:13:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
In your experience yes, but then you PvP so that is the limited corner of the market that supply and demand effects the most.


I suppose the noctis, hulks and ravens are also massivly used in pvp too?



Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-02-23 20:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Professor Alphane wrote:
TLDR you basically can't inflate the price of a product in EVE much because of the way the crafting<>Auction House system works


tell me more about EVE's auction house and crafting systems

please go back to running raids in wow

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#19 - 2012-02-23 20:18:40 UTC
Kind of apt you say that.

Incursion - Mass PvE - the thing that made WOW billions.

More power to you loving your PvP

Other peoples milage varies obviously

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2012-02-23 20:20:43 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:


Very popular ships that are often involved (victims) in combat though


And the rise of freighters from around 700 million to over one billion?

As well as the very steep rise all minerals.

Im sorry, but you are just too stupid to be an industrialist. You know nothing about what the markets have been doing nore have you bothered to look at the records which show rising prices while sales stay steady.
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