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FW WTF?
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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-02-23 15:00:12 UTC
Cearain wrote:


The whole "isk efficiency" rating is one of the worst statistics in eve that has discouraged good fights.

Anyway how is it calculated?




Makes perfect sense that you can know for sure that something is a bad idea, but not have a clue to how it works.

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#62 - 2012-02-23 15:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Cearain wrote:


The whole "isk efficiency" rating is one of the worst statistics in eve that has discouraged good fights.

Anyway how is it calculated?




Makes perfect sense that you can know for sure that something is a bad idea, but not have a clue to how it works.


I can know how it effects pilots and their likiehood of jumping in a fight regardless of the details of how it is calculated.

And do you think I have no clue how it "works" because it is calculated in an even worse way than I suggested?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#63 - 2012-02-23 15:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Cearain wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
"o my god i lost a 50mil ship my efficiency is ruined!!! ill only fly in the blob from now on and run away from ANYTHING that even has the slightest chance of killing me"


The whole "isk efficiency" rating is one of the worst statistics in eve that has discouraged good fights.

Anyway how is it calculated?

If you kill a 200 million isk battleship with 20 other players do you each get 10 million isk added to what you have killed?

Or do they base it on the amount of damage you have done? So if you did half the damage you would have 100 million isk and the other 19 would divide the other 100 million based on their damage?


Nope. I wrote a rage thread on this a while back and why EDK and its dumb way of calculating ISK efficiency is killing PvP in Eve (at least, PvP by people who want to max out KB numbers).

If 20 players in 50 mil ISK ships each (BCs) kill a 200 mil ISK ship, but lose 5 battlecruisers in the fight, everyone's efficiency goes up. Everybody on the kill gets the full value of the killmail. That means that each of the 20 blobbing BCs get +200 mil, - 50 mil, while the 200 mil ISK ship gets +250 mil -200 mil. E: the corp killboard is a tad more balanced, as it gets +200 mil -250 mil, but that is based on the precondition that all 20 people are in the same corp.

In instances like this, KB efficiency practically encourages blobbing. Strictly speaking, scaling efficiency by damage dealt is unfair as it disadvantages tacklers and EWAR. Giving everyone the same value promotes killwhores. Divinding the value too much discourages flying in a gang. The "point" system is also broken, as a Taranis killing a Rifter gives you the same points as a Taranis killing a Daredevil, but those are very different fights. There is no good way to "solve" this.

The best way I've found is to berate and laugh at anyone who seriously uses broken KB stats to prove their "leetness".

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-02-23 16:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
kb efficiency is very useful on any level where you run homogenous fleets (usually coalition level but can also be pilot level for a determined & consistent solo pvper).

for anything smaller than that - not so much.

.
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#65 - 2012-02-23 16:19:56 UTC
I'd be lying if I said I didn't look at my killboard and go "ooh shiny," but that doesn't mean much to me in the end. I'm here for the piew, that is all (that being said, I'm not an idiot that's gonna suicide BCs into blobs for the space honor).
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#66 - 2012-02-23 16:48:31 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
I'm not an idiot that's gonna suicide BCs into blobs for the space honor.

That's what Rifters are for!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#67 - 2012-02-23 17:54:49 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
"o my god i lost a 50mil ship my efficiency is ruined!!! ill only fly in the blob from now on and run away from ANYTHING that even has the slightest chance of killing me"


The whole "isk efficiency" rating is one of the worst statistics in eve that has discouraged good fights.

Anyway how is it calculated?

If you kill a 200 million isk battleship with 20 other players do you each get 10 million isk added to what you have killed?

Or do they base it on the amount of damage you have done? So if you did half the damage you would have 100 million isk and the other 19 would divide the other 100 million based on their damage?


Nope. I wrote a rage thread on this a while back and why EDK and its dumb way of calculating ISK efficiency is killing PvP in Eve (at least, PvP by people who want to max out KB numbers).

If 20 players in 50 mil ISK ships each (BCs) kill a 200 mil ISK ship, but lose 5 battlecruisers in the fight, everyone's efficiency goes up. Everybody on the kill gets the full value of the killmail. That means that each of the 20 blobbing BCs get +200 mil, - 50 mil, while the 200 mil ISK ship gets +250 mil -200 mil. E: the corp killboard is a tad more balanced, as it gets +200 mil -250 mil, but that is based on the precondition that all 20 people are in the same corp.

In instances like this, KB efficiency practically encourages blobbing. Strictly speaking, scaling efficiency by damage dealt is unfair as it disadvantages tacklers and EWAR. Giving everyone the same value promotes killwhores. Divinding the value too much discourages flying in a gang. The "point" system is also broken, as a Taranis killing a Rifter gives you the same points as a Taranis killing a Daredevil, but those are very different fights. There is no good way to "solve" this.

The best way I've found is to berate and laugh at anyone who seriously uses broken KB stats to prove their "leetness".


This is what i thought but I wanted to double check before I accused the isk effieciency players of being that idiotic. But also I checked the battleclinic killboard down around the lowest ranked players who only have a few kills and the numbers didn't quite add up. It was pretty close to what you describe though.

I agree that there is no potential to have a good way to do isk effiecency for the reasons you point out - unless everyone is solo.

As far as the point system - it seems a bit more relevant. At least battleclinic does give you more points for killing a daredevil than killing a rifter. Its far from perfect as well. But in general I think if someone is rated very high on battleclinic they are more likely better at pvp than someone rated very low- unless the low rated player is just an alt or something. The battle clinic point system is the only one that makes any sense at all as far as I can see. There was going to be an "eve arena" board as well but I think that got put off.

Sorry I didn't mean to derail the thread from crying about faction war.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#68 - 2012-02-23 17:59:09 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Sorry I didn't mean to derail the thread from crying about faction war.


My apologies, too. Let's get back to it.

A Slicer killed my Rifter in a minor plex, why is FW so unfriendly to newbies Sad

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
flyingdank pocket
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-02-24 08:44:33 UTC
its a shame flyingdankpocket biomassed. he could be part of this to