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Bioware; Angry Gamers Call Her a "Cancer"

First post
Author
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-02-22 22:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Merin Ryskin wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Also it is not my job. But I can promise you this, if I made comment like her on behalf of my company I would get fired. I try to avoid talking about ***** and start confrontation on my job related twitter accounts.


That's nice. She didn't start the whole confrontation, she merely responded to an organized harassment campaign which was started for incredibly stupid reasons.

And it's only bad PR if you're an immature fanboy. Some of us appreciate that Bioware's management is willing to tell immature fanboys to STFU and quit whining (this isn't the first time), and are more likely to buy a game as a result.


This, a bunch of retards dug up a five year old quote and used it to launch a barrage of harassment. Not to mention the whole point about a story writer not enjoying games is invalid in the first place.

Her comment was reasonable and may even be accurate and Bioware's support is appropriate, making a charitable donation earns extra props to.

EDIT

Bioware are so bad at PR they decided to go to extra expense and print a double sided cover for all retail boxes, allowing fans to choose the gender on the box is a truly terrible PR move.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-02-22 23:53:30 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
I find it funny, that people still bother to ***** about these things.


I'd rather ***** about starvation.


Indeed, that is actually an interesting and relevant topic, but alas, many seem more interested in non relevant people saying non relevant things as if it actually matted to anyone.
Squidgey
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-02-23 04:58:37 UTC
Attention stupid people:


You do not have to play, enjoy, or even like video games to write a good story for them. The only concern here is her ability to do her job. She does not have to play video games, or like them, in order to write a story.
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-02-23 05:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Squidgey wrote:
You do not have to play, enjoy, or even like video games to write a good story for them. The only concern here is her ability to do her job. She does not have to play video games, or like them, in order to write a story.


That is a concern, yes. Jennifer Hepler is an absolutely terrible writer, no better than an unusually literate fanfic enthusiast. In a story-centric game, that's completely unacceptable. I didn't notice anything amiss until Dragon Age II — but after viewing an extensive selection of scenes from DA2 on YouTube, I wanted to fill a pressure washer with brain bleach, insert the nozzle into my ear, and empty the tank. I've seen better writing in made-for-TV monster flicks.

Personally, I harbor no ill will toward BioWare for the decline in writing quality. They're pandering to their wider customer base, and I can't blame them for that. I simply don't play their games anymore. (Not that terrible writing is the only reason — the Origin digital distribution service, the fact that TOR is a blatant WoW clone, and the day-one paid DLC scheme for ME3 are also contributing factors.)

The nerd rage toward Hepler stems from the fact that she doesn't stick purely to writing. She also has opinions on gameplay (such as the well known "skip combat button"), and as a BioWare employee, her opinions are perceived as being influential. Moreover, the story itself is an important part of gameplay in BioWare games.

I do think it's a legitimate concern when someone who doesn't like video games is proposing changes to their core gameplay models.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-02-23 05:53:41 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
Squidgey wrote:
You do not have to play, enjoy, or even like video games to write a good story for them. The only concern here is her ability to do her job. She does not have to play video games, or like them, in order to write a story.


That is a concern, yes. Jennifer Hepler is an absolutely terrible writer, no better than an unusually literate fanfic enthusiast. In a story-centric game, that's completely unacceptable. I didn't notice anything amiss until Dragon Age II — but after viewing an extensive selection of scenes from DA2 on YouTube, I wanted to fill a pressure washer with brain bleach, insert the nozzle into my ear, and empty the tank. I've seen better writing in made-for-TV monster flicks.

Personally, I harbor no ill will toward BioWare for the decline in writing quality. They're pandering to their wider customer base, and I can't blame them for that. I simply don't play their games anymore. (Not that terrible writing is the only reason — the Origin digital distribution service, the fact that TOR is a blatant WoW clone, and the day-one paid DLC scheme for ME3 are also contributing factors.)

The nerd rage toward Hepler stems from the fact that she doesn't stick purely to writing. She also has opinions on gameplay (such as the well known "skip combat button"), and as a BioWare employee, her opinions are perceived as being influential. Moreover, the story itself is an important part of gameplay in BioWare games.

I do think it's a legitimate concern when someone who doesn't like video games is proposing changes to their core gameplay models.


Bioware romances have never been an outstanding bastion of literature, as long as I can remember they have been stilted, awkward and even nonsensical on occasion. They are only ever in there as fanservice because its expected by the players.

Jennifer Hepler isn't to blame for every single ****** romance plot.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-02-23 05:54:03 UTC
I like how people act like EA did anything wrong.
all bioware the games follow the same formula

at the most basic its
Awesome story
crap game
low value

KOTOR
awesome story
combat bad
a few quest, can beat the game in about 40 hours doing 99% of the quest.

Mass effect
story amazing
combat is ok, nothing special
decent number of quest that are all walk down long corridors
doing the important stuff and majority of side quest takes about 40 hours

ME2
same as ME1 except it was 2 disks and just as short.

Dragon age origins
awesome story
combat wasn't fun but took strategy
few quest but long main quest line, all quest were hallways.
Dragon age origins was worth the $$ in that the main story plus side quest could take you 60-70 hours.

DA2
OK story
better combat
game was shorter
all the quest were in hallways, but worse, the SAME hallways.
DA2 lasted about 40 hours doing 99% of quest.


40 hours for $60? no thanks. for the original xbox i can accept this but not on 360
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#47 - 2012-02-23 06:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
The nerd rage toward Hepler stems from the fact that she doesn't stick purely to writing. She also has opinions on gameplay (such as the well known "skip combat button"), and as a BioWare employee, her opinions are perceived as being influential. Moreover, the story itself is an important part of gameplay in BioWare games.


Having personal opinions =/= having influence.

As a writer she may have personal opinions on the subject, but it's her professional role that matters. She has zero control over gameplay features, and the people who DO have control over those features are not going to be convinced by her random personal opinions unless it's something they also want to do. If it's not a good opinion, the people who get paid to develop good gameplay are simply going to veto it and move on.

Quote:
I do think it's a legitimate concern when someone who doesn't like video games is proposing changes to their core gameplay models.


How exactly is a "skip combat" button a huge change? Did you miss the part where you don't have to use it if you don't like it? FFS, it's not even a multiplayer game we're talking about. Does it really bother you that much that someone else could "play" the game differently?

Herping yourDerp wrote:
40 hours for $60? no thanks. for the original xbox i can accept this but not on 360


Err, just how many hours of gameplay do you think you get from a single-player game these days? I mean, I just finished modern warfare 3 in less than five hours because I was bored tonight*. You're really out of touch with modern gaming if you think that laughably short single-player games are something unique to Bioware.

And even at 40 hours it's still a good deal compared to a lot of other things. 40 hours is way more than the average single-player game, way better hours-per-dollar efficiency than movies, 53x cheaper per hour than renting even the cheapest airplane I can fly, etc.



*Thankfully I did not buy it. However, I do find it amusing that it took me significantly longer to download the game than it did to play it.
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-02-23 06:51:50 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Jennifer Hepler isn't to blame for every single ****** romance plot.


She's not solely to blame for every character and scene, no, because she doesn't write every character and scene, nor does she work on every BioWare game. There are surely others to blame for the overall decrease in writing quality at BioWare, and not just in romance scenes.

Like it or not, though, Hepler is the figurehead for BioWare's new direction — and BioWare has issued strong public statements supporting and endorsing her writing style. That to me is an indicator of what future BioWare games will be like.

Imagine a CCP employee proposing unpopular changes, changes which are subsequently endorsed by official CCP public statements and/or press releases. The blame for these proposed changes now shifts to the entire company, not just that one employee.

TL;DR: Who you choose to endorse matters.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-02-23 07:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Having personal opinions =/= having influence.

As a writer she may have personal opinions on the subject, but it's her professional role that matters. She has zero control over gameplay features, and the people who DO have control over those features are not going to be convinced by her random personal opinions unless it's something they also want to do. If it's not a good opinion, the people who get paid to develop good gameplay are simply going to veto it and move on.

. . .

How exactly is a "skip combat" button a huge change? Did you miss the part where you don't have to use it if you don't like it? FFS, it's not even a multiplayer game we're talking about. Does it really bother you that much that someone else could "play" the game differently?


When BioWare employees issue public statements in their capacity as BioWare employees, they're acting as representatives of the entire company, regardless of their part in the development process. Public perception is important.

Note that while I dislike Hepler's gameplay ideas, I'm not implying that I think BioWare will implement them. I'm simply stressing that these statements are the reason why she's attracted the ire of some gamers. An optional "skip combat button" in and of itself wouldn't bother me at all, but the button is the tip of an iceberg — an entire mindset of game design that goes in a direction I personally want no part of.

Having said that, the button isn't the main thing for me. The main thing is Hepler's writing, BioWare's endorsement of her writing, and the quality of BioWare's writing in general.

Here's an example of modern BioWare writing in action. It's perhaps not the most representative example, but they signed off on it: http://i.imgur.com/XmBRH.jpg

"Way too many sharp corners and Sithy things lying around." ... "But seriously, no pressure or anything." Lol

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-02-23 07:48:29 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Jennifer Hepler isn't to blame for every single ****** romance plot.


She's not solely to blame for every character and scene, no, because she doesn't write every character and scene, nor does she work on every BioWare game. There are surely others to blame for the overall decrease in writing quality at BioWare, and not just in romance scenes.

Like it or not, though, Hepler is the figurehead for BioWare's new direction — and BioWare has issued strong public statements supporting and endorsing her writing style. That to me is an indicator of what future BioWare games will be like.

Imagine a CCP employee proposing unpopular changes, changes which are subsequently endorsed by official CCP public statements and/or press releases. The blame for these proposed changes now shifts to the entire company, not just that one employee.

TL;DR: Who you choose to endorse matters.


Bioware romance plots have always been **** though, they have **** since 1998 so whatever she has done its not part of any kind of decline in overall romance plots.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#51 - 2012-02-23 07:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Also it is not my job. But I can promise you this, if I made comment like her on behalf of my company I would get fired. I try to avoid talking about ***** and start confrontation on my job related twitter accounts.


That's nice. She didn't start the whole confrontation, she merely responded to an organized harassment campaign which was started for incredibly stupid reasons.

And it's only bad PR if you're an immature fanboy. Some of us appreciate that Bioware's management is willing to tell immature fanboys to STFU and quit whining (this isn't the first time), and are more likely to buy a game as a result.



EDIT

Bioware are so bad at PR they decided to go to extra expense and print a double sided cover for all retail boxes, allowing fans to choose the gender on the box is a truly terrible PR move.




Good PR=2 sided covers for a game box???

Lol

Never mind, keep it up, you are entertaining Pirate
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-02-23 07:55:35 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Bioware romance plots have always been **** though, they have **** since 1998 so whatever she has done its not part of any kind of decline in overall romance plots.


She doesn't only write romance plots, though. She also writes characters, races, quests and storylines:

"Hepler was responsible for most of the dwarven NPCs in Orzammar, and the Dwarf Commoner Origin. She also wrote the Anvil of the Void quest line, including Branka and Hespith."

"Hepler wrote Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Elthina, Cullen, and Sebastian Vael. She also wrote most of the Legacy DLC for Dragon Age II."


http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Jennifer_Hepler

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-02-23 08:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
2bhammered wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Also it is not my job. But I can promise you this, if I made comment like her on behalf of my company I would get fired. I try to avoid talking about ***** and start confrontation on my job related twitter accounts.


That's nice. She didn't start the whole confrontation, she merely responded to an organized harassment campaign which was started for incredibly stupid reasons.

And it's only bad PR if you're an immature fanboy. Some of us appreciate that Bioware's management is willing to tell immature fanboys to STFU and quit whining (this isn't the first time), and are more likely to buy a game as a result.



EDIT

Bioware are so bad at PR they decided to go to extra expense and print a double sided cover for all retail boxes, allowing fans to choose the gender on the box is a truly terrible PR move.



Do you even realize yourself how stupid you come across with every single post you make on these forums?

Good PR=2 sided covers for a game box???

Lol

Oh boy, selling you a game is like stealing candy from a baby.


Look how dumb you are, fans have been complaining about the canonisation of Shepard being male and the fact that in the first two games he was the singular poster child.

So yes it is a nice gesture to the fans. Everytime you post I think of this, http://imgur.com/imYw1

Ursula LeGuinn wrote:

She doesn't only write romance plots, though. She also writes characters, races, quests and storylines:

"Hepler was responsible for most of the dwarven NPCs in Orzammar, and the Dwarf Commoner Origin. She also wrote the Anvil of the Void quest line, including Branka and Hespith."

"Hepler wrote Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Elthina, Cullen, and Sebastian Vael. She also wrote most of the Legacy DLC for Dragon Age II."


http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Jennifer_Hepler


The Anvil of the Void quest was actually one of the better ones in DA:O.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#54 - 2012-02-23 08:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


Look how dumb you are, fans have been complaining about the canonisation of Shepard being male and the fact that in the first two games he was the singular poster child.

So yes it is a nice gesture to the fans.


What do you mean, Jenny?

Have you ever been on a real shrimp boat?
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-02-23 08:07:02 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


Look how dumb you are, fans have been complaining about the canonisation of Shepard being male and the fact that in the first two games he was the singular poster child.

So yes it is a nice gesture to the fans.


What do you mean, Jenny?


http://imgur.com/imYw1 And again, never stop posting.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#56 - 2012-02-23 08:18:07 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


Look how dumb you are, fans have been complaining about the canonisation of Shepard being male and the fact that in the first two games he was the singular poster child.

So yes it is a nice gesture to the fans.


What do you mean, Jenny?


http://imgur.com/imYw1 And again, never stop posting.



I'm sorry I ruined your New Year's Eve party, Lieutenant Dan. She tasted like cigarettes!
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-02-23 08:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Herping yourDerp wrote:
snipped

DA2
OK story
better combat
game was shorter
all the quest were in hallways, but worse, the SAME hallways.
DA2 lasted about 40 hours doing 99% of quest.



DA2's problems weren't just those things. The main general problem(outside personal taste issues) was it screamed of halfassed implementation and lack of effort in almost every area of the game. Generic items with no unique pictures just color coding on the same icon, constant recycled environments and dungeons, minimal number of different equipment models, weak and fractured story telling on the main plot, little/no difficulty balancing and enemies in most fights constantly spawned from nothingness to extend the fights and try to give them at least a little tactical depth. It all made the game very unenjoyable for me and that's just the list I remember from the top of my head with personal taste issues kept to a minimum.

The game is simply filled to the brim with all kinds of corner cutting and lazyness. I can't recall the last time I played a game that so clearly showed the lack of effort and caring from the dev team. They did a bad job with the game and frankly it's totally unacceptable from such a high profile game.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#58 - 2012-02-23 08:32:22 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
snipped

DA2
OK story
better combat
game was shorter
all the quest were in hallways, but worse, the SAME hallways.
DA2 lasted about 40 hours doing 99% of quest.



DA2's problems weren't just those things. The main general problem(outside personal taste issues) was it screamed of halfassed implementation and lack of effort in almost every area of the game. Generic items with no unique pictures just color coding on the same icon, constant recycled environments and dungeons, minimal number of different equipment models, weak and fractured story telling on the main plot, little/no difficulty balancing and enemies in most fights constantly spawned from nothingness to extend the fights and try to give them at least a little tactical. It all made the game very unenjoyable for me and that's just the list I remember from the top of my head with personal taste issues kept to a minimum.

The game is simply filled to the brim with all kinds of corner cutting and lazyness. I can't recall the last time I played a game that so clearly showed the lack of effort and caring from the dev team. They did a bad job with the game and frankly it's totally unacceptable from such a high profile game.


SWTOR Lol (she also worked on that.)

2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#59 - 2012-02-23 08:40:45 UTC
Mass Effect 3 - The Prothean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK99_T61alc

Mass Effect 3 - The Prothean

Jamaican man!
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-02-23 15:06:57 UTC
It's aggressive, whiney **** like this which gives gamers a bad name. Ugh