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Really...what does foolproof L4 missioning take???

Author
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-02-22 19:09:08 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Dominix would get destroyed in the Gallente Epic arc. Studio 1 and Showtime are painful missions.

Also the Amarr epic arc has a few neuts in various missions.


Domis might be great to go afk in, but the mission will take you far longer than any active tanked gunboat. Also Domi's run a risk of being picked off by griefers who'll take advantage of your aggressive Drones. Same goes for Rattlesnakes that afk with Drones/FoFs.


Funny you should say that... my Dominix has run both without much problem, though sure a rattler would have a lot more tank.
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-02-22 19:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ajita al Tchar
Zathryon wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
BellaDonna Nyghtshade wrote:
Sure, there are ships that run them faster, but none as cheap or as AFK.

Very true. Dominix with the right hardeners and a couple of reps is extremely hard to beat for the price.



just as (or almost as) foolproof for the epic arcs?


Wellll, you can use the Domi on Epic Arc missions, but since for some missions it lacks tank even if said tank is way too much for L4's, you have to start getting creative with your fits and tactics. It's not as foolproof as L4's but it's still pretty hard to die if you don't do something stupid like thinking you can get these last two fat red crosses while at 50% hull already. And the total rewards from the good Epic Arcs are enough to pay for the ship several times over, not including the ~priceless~ standings gain.

Some parts of epic arcs have NPCs that roll up quickly and deliver really effective kicks to the nuts. My nearly perfect Dominix pilot with a great armor tank took a beating more than once, even while not standing still. You could probably go out and spend a lot of money to really ubertank the Dominix, but to me that defeats the purpose of the ship: cheap and effective (though not necessarily efficient ISK/hr-wise). Might as well get a pimp-tank Rattlesnake at that point. "Cheap" has its merits just like "efficient" does.

Some Epic Arc Dominix tactics:
* Most missions are in pockets within which you can warp from point to point, bookmark to bookmark (or bookmark to veldspar, whatever). Make such bookmarks for on-grid warping.
* Often, incoming damage and EWAR isn't effective at very long range (~200km) and in case of EWAR cruisers, you can very nearly instapop those with T2 sentries when they start MWD'ing to approach from ~200km away (because you warped in at that distance Smile Not possible in all missions, but is possible in oh so many). The batteries are also usually easy to pop with sentries.
* You can fit your Dominix to have a 200+km lock range and at the same time have sentries with vastly increased optimal. Three Omnidirectional Tracking Link II's give you Wardens that have a 130km optimal, 91km Curators, 104km Bouncers and 51km Gardes (aww, poor Gardes). Add falloff on top of that and you can have sentries that start taking out EWAR cruisers and/or frigs well before you start taking craploads of damage. This fit does leave you with a significantly crappier tank.
* When the NPCs get too close for comfort and you're in a lol-snipe Domi, having just popped most if not all cruisers and some battleships, warp to an on-grid bookmark. Lather, rinse, repeat.

As has already been said: is this the most efficient setup? Hell no. Does it work? Of course. Obviously, you can aim for greater efficiency if you're serious about running missions, but the Dominix is pretty damn nearly foolproof when it comes to achieving the goal of "objective completed" and not dying, while also not putting that much effort into actually running most missions. I haven't insured a Domi in ages because it is literally a waste of money to me. I would have spent far more on insurance payments than the platinum payout in case of an unfortunate event. Never lost a PvE Domi.
drdxie
#23 - 2012-02-22 19:57:45 UTC
I have many accounts of varying races and have tried, RS, Tengu, navy raven, Ammar BS's, Domi, Maelstrom, NM, etc. My advice is to train Caldari BS to 4 and get a NM as you already have the T2 large lazor skills, you will no longer be soiling your beer with tears.. trust me.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#24 - 2012-02-22 20:36:24 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Dominix would get destroyed in the Gallente Epic arc. Studio 1 and Showtime are painful missions.

Also the Amarr epic arc has a few neuts in various missions.


Domis might be great to go afk in, but the mission will take you far longer than any active tanked gunboat. Also Domi's run a risk of being picked off by griefers who'll take advantage of your aggressive Drones. Same goes for Rattlesnakes that afk with Drones/FoFs.


Funny you should say that... my Dominix has run both without much problem, though sure a rattler would have a lot more tank.


Flying it afk or actually flying it?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#25 - 2012-02-22 23:43:17 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Dominix would get destroyed in the Gallente Epic arc. Studio 1 and Showtime are painful missions.

Also the Amarr epic arc has a few neuts in various missions.


Domis might be great to go afk in, but the mission will take you far longer than any active tanked gunboat. Also Domi's run a risk of being picked off by griefers who'll take advantage of your aggressive Drones. Same goes for Rattlesnakes that afk with Drones/FoFs.



please explain how you can gank someone with aggressive drones. last I checked, this mechanic had been removed from the game.

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth

Undistinguished Gray Suit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-02-23 01:01:32 UTC
If I only flew Amarr I'd be inclined to try using an Abbadon with arty or ACs. It'll nerf your DPS of course, but if you have enough buffer I bet you can at least kill all the neuts and scrambling frigs. If your tank is good enough you can just keep plugging away, or you can warp out to refit with lasers or change ships. The latter may be faster overall even if you don't really need to warp out.

If I ran that arc right now I would do things a bit differently, but that's just based on the characters I have available. I'd probably dualbox with a pair of spider tanking ships consisting of a missile flinging Caldari BS and a Minmatar BS.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#27 - 2012-02-23 02:37:24 UTC
Kush Monster wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Dominix would get destroyed in the Gallente Epic arc. Studio 1 and Showtime are painful missions.

Also the Amarr epic arc has a few neuts in various missions.


Domis might be great to go afk in, but the mission will take you far longer than any active tanked gunboat. Also Domi's run a risk of being picked off by griefers who'll take advantage of your aggressive Drones. Same goes for Rattlesnakes that afk with Drones/FoFs.



please explain how you can gank someone with aggressive drones. last I checked, this mechanic had been removed from the game.


You can still steal from their wrecks and be considered aggressive and have their drones attack you last I checked.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Mirima Thurander
#28 - 2012-02-23 04:52:20 UTC
i see your fighting blood raiders in CAP heavy ships, try moving to an area where you dont have to fight nuting missions.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#29 - 2012-02-23 06:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Dominix would get destroyed in the Gallente Epic arc. Studio 1 and Showtime are painful missions.


Wrong. Lots of people have done the entire arc in a dominix (myself - with a sentry rigged one), and Showtime is ungated. I won't say its trivial but, but its certainly not "painful" to snipe with sentries.

Quote:

Also the Amarr epic arc has a few neuts in various missions.


Its a cheap hull. Nothing stops you owning 2 of them, and rigging them differently, and its drone bonused, so turning off the guns and pulsing a rep generates a lot of spare cap for cap tanking mission neuting, and the drones can break anything found in a misison alone if need be.

I found the ishtar a bit of a suprise for blood neuting, not because I wasn't aware of it, but because compared to my domi, it capped out so fast, nearly caught me out altogether. Battleships just don't cap out immediately.

Quote:


Domis might be great to go afk in, but the mission will take you far longer than any active tanked gunboat. Also Domi's run a risk of being picked off by griefers who'll take advantage of your aggressive Drones. Same goes for Rattlesnakes that afk with Drones/FoFs.


No. Its a double dps bonused ship. It is not slow at missions, it is slow at missions if you blindly copy paste a dumb afk setup from battleclinic.

and also no, drones will not cause player aggression merely by being set to aggressive whilst someone loots stuff. being afk is however a good way to get shot by a wartarget.
SirDynty
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-23 11:40:54 UTC
You have a lot of choices,but THE misson boat is Marauder.
It not slow Tank&Drone **** as in Dominix,but Marauder have evrything you need for misson – very good dps on 850+ (domi can do that as well with heavy drones,but its just a „paper“ dps as heavy drones travel a lot,and Sentry drones Miss a lot),very good restists+ bonussed Tank,range,Tractor beams for pulling mission objectives(Cargo container with militants and all that ****),Marauder can lock 10 Targets,so you much less clicking and locking and as a bonus,you spend 50% less on ammo (well not really good for Ammar :)
In Galente marauder (Kronos) you tank with Armor but in a lot of missions you only cycle repairer for 2 cycles,as its bonussed,resists are insane and Mission looks like – Warp on 100km,lock all&kill 70% of whole room before they even start to land some hits on you – shoot the rest – pull the objective with tractor - warp out

So imho,if you can afford that t3 legion..go for Marauder,you not only „do“ lvl 4 mission but totaly own them,you will se the difference
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#31 - 2012-02-23 14:15:19 UTC
Tauranon wrote:

No. Its a double dps bonused ship. It is not slow at missions, it is slow at missions if you blindly copy paste a dumb afk setup from battleclinic.


The discussion when I replied was discussing AFK dominix setups. Hence my various points related to Studio 1, Showtime and neut missions. Hell the line you quoted for this bit even specifically mentioned AFK setups again.

The Domi is still slower than a gunboat, the Drones make up for the fact you're not only stuck with 6 turrets but the PG is so low that you're forced to use smaller guns. It's a good ship for newer players but once you actually have gunskills worth a damn it's overlooked by many others.

Quote:
and also no, drones will not cause player aggression merely by being set to aggressive whilst someone loots stuff. being afk is however a good way to get shot by a wartarget.


Well that's changed since I last had fun with it.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#32 - 2012-02-23 14:58:42 UTC
It takes half a brain to make L4's foolproof.

Not today spaghetti.

Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#33 - 2012-02-23 14:59:57 UTC
my main concern (for the moment) is to finish the amarr epic arc. while I understand the sentiment of going where my amarr ships are better suited, what I REALLY want out of all of this is amarr standing, I dont make my money off of missioning.

While I agree with the people who say paladins/marauders generally are great, I dont think its going to get me through the epic arc. its way too cap dependant.

Rattlesnake really seems like the way to go for the epic arc (but I think for the regular L4s a Paladin would be a much faster alternative).

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#34 - 2012-02-23 15:41:34 UTC
Zathryon wrote:
my main concern (for the moment) is to finish the amarr epic arc. while I understand the sentiment of going where my amarr ships are better suited, what I REALLY want out of all of this is amarr standing, I dont make my money off of missioning.

While I agree with the people who say paladins/marauders generally are great, I dont think its going to get me through the epic arc. its way too cap dependant.

Rattlesnake really seems like the way to go for the epic arc (but I think for the regular L4s a Paladin would be a much faster alternative).



I used a tengu and had 0 issues running the arc, then I ran it as a group with a tempest, tengu, and basilisk, and then I ran it in a gila (passive tank, CPRs to keep the ab running under neuts). These missions are actually really easy, the neuting isn't very strong and the only real issue is tracking disruption, so just don't use turrets, or if you do, you AC/Arty. With a bit of speed and range the rats should never hit you at all.

To be fair though, I have never finished the amarr arc on the amarr side, I always switch to sansha, and I never destroy the neut towers because you lose sansha standing when you shoot them. For the low sec sansha part, an ishkur works fine, if you are really scared a cov subbed tengu is fine too.
Caldari Citizen 786478786
#35 - 2012-02-23 17:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari Citizen 786478786
Nightmare.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#36 - 2012-02-23 17:44:47 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Zathryon wrote:
my main concern (for the moment) is to finish the amarr epic arc. while I understand the sentiment of going where my amarr ships are better suited, what I REALLY want out of all of this is amarr standing, I dont make my money off of missioning.

While I agree with the people who say paladins/marauders generally are great, I dont think its going to get me through the epic arc. its way too cap dependant.

Rattlesnake really seems like the way to go for the epic arc (but I think for the regular L4s a Paladin would be a much faster alternative).



I used a tengu and had 0 issues running the arc, then I ran it as a group with a tempest, tengu, and basilisk, and then I ran it in a gila (passive tank, CPRs to keep the ab running under neuts). These missions are actually really easy, the neuting isn't very strong and the only real issue is tracking disruption, so just don't use turrets, or if you do, you AC/Arty. With a bit of speed and range the rats should never hit you at all.

To be fair though, I have never finished the amarr arc on the amarr side, I always switch to sansha, and I never destroy the neut towers because you lose sansha standing when you shoot them. For the low sec sansha part, an ishkur works fine, if you are really scared a cov subbed tengu is fine too.



Tengu is kind of out of the question, that would take months of training to do effectively. as much as I like the tengu Im just not goiing to spend the time going for it.

also, my schedule is too hectic to really try and get help right now, my aim is definitely to do them solo.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#37 - 2012-02-23 17:53:58 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:


You can still steal from their wrecks and be considered aggressive and have their drones attack you last I checked.


nope. drones will not aggro. If you can prove otherwise there is a what over a year old reward of close to a bill for you to pick up that several of us have put up.

been flying droneboats for years and had my loot stolen, drones never aggro thieves. EVER. Wont aggro if someone locks you up. Will only retaliate if someone uses an agressive module on you. or if you of course tell them to.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#38 - 2012-02-23 23:13:10 UTC
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
been flying droneboats for years and had my loot stolen, drones never aggro thieves. EVER. Wont aggro if someone locks you up. Will only retaliate if someone uses an agressive module on you. or if you of course tell them to.



Just curious, if they shoot your drones, will they 1) get concordokken, and 2) will the drones retaliate so they can shoot you? (Assuming agressive drone setting)
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#39 - 2012-02-24 06:42:01 UTC
Zathryon wrote:
Just PYFA'ed a rattlesnake and a Paladin

and wow...ok im kind of mad now for two reasons...


1. the rattlesnake is a correct answer...i hate "right" answers...I want choices!
2. if I had done this from the start I could have saved myself alot of ISK and heartache

for HALF the price of a well fitted Paladin, a rattlesnake has MORE DPS and DOUBLE the tank without needing any frickin cap!!

gah! im so mad!


Wait...what? You can get 1300 dps with a Paladin. There's absolutely no way you're getting even close to that with a Rattler, even with full damage mods, torps, and similair implants.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#40 - 2012-02-24 07:30:13 UTC
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Zathryon wrote:
Just PYFA'ed a rattlesnake and a Paladin

and wow...ok im kind of mad now for two reasons...


1. the rattlesnake is a correct answer...i hate "right" answers...I want choices!
2. if I had done this from the start I could have saved myself alot of ISK and heartache

for HALF the price of a well fitted Paladin, a rattlesnake has MORE DPS and DOUBLE the tank without needing any frickin cap!!

gah! im so mad!


Wait...what? You can get 1300 dps with a Paladin. There's absolutely no way you're getting even close to that with a Rattler, even with full damage mods, torps, and similair implants.



not when youre trying to tank the sh*t out of it so you can survive the amarr epic arc...
if I was going for a DPS fit it would be a very different story, but thats a very flashy way to lose 950m isk and not my idea of a good time.
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