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The Titan issue – a recap and a possible solution
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#161 - 2012-02-22 01:01:04 UTC

They NEED to change the damage formula for CAPITAL SHIPS Weapons.... Essentially, a formula that scales damage like missiles, for all capital weapons, even XL turrets. This would put all capital ship weapons on par with each other. They could introduce new capital weapon enhancement skills that only work on capital weapons, and they could tweak the formula so capital weapons just don't work well on subcaps, especially fast moving and/or sub-BS sized ships.

This would make supercaps vulernable to subcaps... and then tweak dreads and carriers to be anti-supcap platforms. Hell, give sieged dreads a BONUS to killing BS sized vessels, and probably give carriers a few more penatlies (i.e. give fighters the 400mm turret sig like propsed, rather than their 125mm sig!!!) By forcing dreads to siege when engaging subcaps, and leaving assault carriers vulnerable to EWAR, the subcap-cap fights are more balanced, and supercaps essentially play anti-cap and anti-structure roles. If you feel that supercaps then are too limited and no longer have an appropriate role given the enormous player investment they represent, give supercaps nice bonuses to their Racial EWAR.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-02-22 02:40:20 UTC
Joseph Tokugawa wrote:
Well I'm not quite the elite PVPer by any means. Here's my thoughts. Titans & other Capitals don't really incur a significant cost after construction so they can be amassed over time. That's the issue. I imagine it takes quite a while to field Titan fleets of the scale we're referring to but yet no cost is incurred after construction except fuel. Why not simply add a maintenence fee per month or week or whatever to the corp/alliance that owns the super cap / capital. Apply a very inexpensive fee for Dread and Carriers while having a massive fee for super caps. Don't nerf them since they seem balanced in their role. The problem is that they numerically persist and grow. I imagine even as far in the future as eve is **** still breaks. Massive ships have a massive cost associated with them. I don't have enough information to recommend a valid cost / time figure but I'm sure someone can figure that in. Capital/Super Cap ships simply get a maintenence cost to upkeep the massive ship. Hurt a group's bottom line and those Super Caps will actually begin hurting the alliance/corp that owns them.

Individual groups will then have to decide how many they can afford to upkeep and how to deploy them. Even null sec needs to get their goods to markets right? Titans and Super Carriers can't just wander around escorting freighters. Super Caps continue to be an investment and symbol of strength while the intent of the game centered around sub-Cap and caps is maintained. Plus it gives an oppenent looking to hurt a group with a larger capital fleet a different means than hoping they can catch one or two alone or OUT capital the opponent.

Just my thoughts.


This fails since you cannot impose the cost on a corp/alliance if a person is in an NPC corp. And people would move into them to avoid the fee. And you cannot impose a restriction that super pilots MUST be in a non-NPC corp otherwise moving corps gets more difficult or prevents a CEO from kicking a member.
The ONLY way this could possibly work is if the cost was on the individual, which I am not convinced is a good idea.
BIGTEX123
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2012-02-22 04:36:02 UTC
I believe the root of the problem here is that CCP did not design the ships with expansion of the player base in mind. They were designed for a very few to afford and pilot, after they had put in a large amount of time and effort into obtaining the ISK, materials, and skill points to own a titan, or even a super carrier (mother ship). It seems they did not take into consideration the expansion of their player base and the increased number of people who would eventually take on the task of owning their own capital ship. If they really wanted to fix the issues of all capitals in general they should really take into consideration a major revamp of what roles capitals ships should have and how they interact with each other and sub-capital ships. As well as future expansion of the player base and how the increased supply and demand they will bring to the game effects how capital ships are obtained and the abilities they would have because of that.

Yes titans are usually only flown by a select few of the entire EvE universe but it's simple numbers. 1% of 1,000 people is a lot smaller than 1% of 60,000. (Numbers are just examples)

Well that's my two cents to add at this moment. Big smile
Zhade Lezte
#164 - 2012-02-22 20:24:01 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This happened last time. Nerfing titans is all one big CFC conspiricy to take over all of 0.0 with the all mighty blob. Although if we talk about the blob, elite pvp or tactics we will be off topic dispite the OP originally brining up the subject.


Oh I get that you dont acknowledge the basic premise of this thread. But since ignoring the premise of a discussion is the recipie for destruction of that discussion in the first place - as you bloody well know - I am concluding that it is in yours and your masters best interest to destroy discussions like this. Every thread on this subject you to try to twist into be about how the shining white knights of Deklein - defenders of EVEs goodness - is abused by de despicable, game abusing, probably exploiting forces af "elite pvp". Which enables you to ignore the topic and instead use the tread to sperg whatever propaganda your masters have told to to fill the forums with, like the good little monkey you are.

But I know at some point the spin doctors would take over. So be my guest. have fun sperging.


Speaking of biased players and ~spin doctors~

Reilly Duvolle wrote:
+1 For Elise aka Wasp O'Ryan, for the highest number of kills using a Titan in 2011 :)


welp, you fooled me.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#165 - 2012-02-22 20:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Headerman wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
There's some problem with ~elite pvp~ Titans not wanting to engage stuff that might kill them...

Don't worry, that mentality is not limited to RDN/NC.
Really? 4 to 1 and you still can't win?

Hm. Oh well. Being blueballed by titan blobs is really odd though, there were cases where we were bloody sure they had supercaps, but they never jumped in to bash/defend POS. Maybe because they saw scouts they thought it was a bait?

If I was to try thinking seriously, my best bet is that they were worried about supercarriers or something jumping them after welpfleet/drakefleet ties them down. They like hotdropping, so I suppose they would be expecting something besides just endless drakes.

That or the threat of having dreadnaughts jump in the moment they were tackled. Which might be more reasonable expectations of our strategy.

EDIT: Wait, I was just supposed to be laughing about being blueballed by a titan blob, what the heck happened.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#166 - 2012-02-23 08:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Zhade Lezte wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This happened last time. Nerfing titans is all one big CFC conspiricy to take over all of 0.0 with the all mighty blob. Although if we talk about the blob, elite pvp or tactics we will be off topic dispite the OP originally brining up the subject.


Oh I get that you dont acknowledge the basic premise of this thread. But since ignoring the premise of a discussion is the recipie for destruction of that discussion in the first place - as you bloody well know - I am concluding that it is in yours and your masters best interest to destroy discussions like this. Every thread on this subject you to try to twist into be about how the shining white knights of Deklein - defenders of EVEs goodness - is abused by de despicable, game abusing, probably exploiting forces af "elite pvp". Which enables you to ignore the topic and instead use the tread to sperg whatever propaganda your masters have told to to fill the forums with, like the good little monkey you are.

But I know at some point the spin doctors would take over. So be my guest. have fun sperging.


Speaking of biased players and ~spin doctors~

Reilly Duvolle wrote:
+1 For Elise aka Wasp O'Ryan, for the highest number of kills using a Titan in 2011 :)


welp, you fooled me.


I think I have made very clear throughout this thread that I consider titans - ship for ship - absolutely fine as they are. So when I give Elise a well done for beeing an awesome PVPer in a titan, I dont think that breaks with anything that I have said previsosly. What I do not like, is the attempts made by your alliance mates in this thread to turn this discussion away from the topic - which is titans - into some sort of ideological debate of playstyles.

Did that help?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#167 - 2012-02-23 08:44:26 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


I think I have made very clear throughout this thread that I consider titans - ship for ship - absolutely fine as they are. So when I give Elise a well done for beeing an awesome PVPer in a titan, I dont think that breaks with anything that I have said previsosly. What I do not like, is the attempts made by your alliance mates in this thread to turn this discussion away from the topic - which is titans - into some sort of ideological debate of playstyles.

Did that help?


Yep, takes a lot of skill to get bridged in and not move at all while blapping anything and everything with no risk.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#168 - 2012-02-23 08:46:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


I think I have made very clear throughout this thread that I consider titans - ship for ship - absolutely fine as they are. So when I give Elise a well done for beeing an awesome PVPer in a titan, I dont think that breaks with anything that I have said previsosly. What I do not like, is the attempts made by your alliance mates in this thread to turn this discussion away from the topic - which is titans - into some sort of ideological debate of playstyles.

Did that help?


Yep, takes a lot of skill to get bridged in and not move at all while blapping anything and everything with no risk.


Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-02-23 08:52:35 UTC
stop arguing with reilly duvolle, he's an idiot

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#170 - 2012-02-23 08:52:42 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
[quote=M5 Tuttle]There's some problem with ~elite pvp~ Titans not wanting to engage stuff that might kill them...


Don't worry, that mentality is not limited to RDN/NC.

Really? 4 to 1 and you still can't win?


Looks to me like they won the ISK war. Just because there are fewer baskets doesn't mean less eggs got crushed.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#171 - 2012-04-10 20:02:50 UTC
Hope we see some bold cap moves in Inferno... this thread is relevant. Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#172 - 2012-04-11 13:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Gogela wrote:
Hope we see some bold cap moves in Inferno... this thread is relevant. Big smile


Doesnt seem likely. They are applying band aid to the titan (see Greyscales latest thread) because they dont want to tackle the whole capital rebalancing issue now.

I guess they might do it as part of a general sov revamp which is on the horizon. I think they want to let Dust514 settle in nicely before they do that however, since Dust514 could potentially be used as the main sov mechanic for 0.0 space if it is successful.

Also, the whole ship rebalancing effort is starting at the bottom, working its way up, so it will take a while to reach the capitals.

Given this, I dont expect to see "Dominion 2.0" with a possible capital revamp until summer next year, possibly with a pos/indy/lowsec themed expansion for the winter release.