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The mining 'buff' fallacy.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#41 - 2012-02-22 19:01:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
So in principal just by redistirbuting mining gains without the need to simply remove stuff or nerf other industrial capabilities you can make null sec mining and industry more viable. So it is not necessary or "required" to nerf non null to achieve this.

You keep harping on about nerfing non-null… where do you get that idea from? Straight


its not nerfing per se, its the causality of what will happen in hisec.

1. nerf drone poo.
2. less minerals in game.
3. minerals worth more.
4. all of new eden effected.

People can only speculate if it will make more people want to mine or not. It certainly would be beneficial to botters. It will not make me want to mine.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-02-22 19:06:34 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
its not nerfing per se, its the causality of what will happen in hisec.

1. nerf drone poo.
2. less minerals in game.
3. minerals worth more.
4. all of new eden effected.
All good things.

It doesn't really answer the question, though: you keep mentioning some odd non-null nerf, and I'm asking you what it is and where you're getting the idea from?
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-02-22 19:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Tippia wrote:
It doesn't really answer the question, though: you keep mentioning some odd non-null nerf, and I'm asking you what it is and where you're getting the idea from?


I answered above.

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-02-22 19:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
So in principal just by redistirbuting mining gains without the need to simply remove stuff or nerf other industrial capabilities you can make null sec mining and industry more viable. So it is not necessary or "required" to nerf non null to achieve this.

You keep harping on about nerfing non-null… where do you get that idea from? Straight


its not nerfing per se, its the causality of what will happen in hisec.

1. nerf drone poo.
2. less minerals in game.
3. minerals worth more.
4. all of new eden effected.

People can only speculate if it will make more people want to mine or not. It certainly would be beneficial to botters. It will not make me want to mine.


It is kind of funny that if as a result of removal of drone poo which was supposed to incentivise mining in Null sec as per the architects design, that even with the now supposedly linked rising mineral prices people are not actually doing the very thing it was intended to promote.

Of course there could be a delay and other factors of course. But it certainly appears to be an opportunity for people to get mining at the moment as a result. Certainly if they don't want to see prices soaring out of control as a result of CSM initiatives.

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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#45 - 2012-02-22 19:21:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
its not nerfing per se, its the causality of what will happen in hisec.

1. nerf drone poo.
2. less minerals in game.
3. minerals worth more.
4. all of new eden effected.
All good things.

It doesn't really answer the question, though: you keep mentioning some odd non-null nerf, and I'm asking you what it is and where you're getting the idea from?


Yeah that was him, like i said its not a "nerf".

As far as the "all good things" is concerned, meh. I will deal with inflation, its easier the older you are/more chars/professions you have. As with most things it helps the rich get richer and the poor stay poor.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-02-22 19:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Cipher Jones wrote:
Yeah that was him, like i said its not a "nerf".


Yeah ok, technically in the literal sense is a "buff" to null. I used the logical twist of calling it a non-null "nerf". Sorry for incorrect scemantics. But it's still apparent.

Likewise I'm not adverse to improving things for null sec as my own redistribution model helps null sec miners as a result.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2012-02-22 19:30:21 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Yeah that was him, like i said its not a "nerf".
Yes. Sorry about that. Ugh

Grumpy Owly wrote:
I answered above.
Then I've missed it. What's the non-null nerf? No, just because null gets buffed doesn't mean non-null gets nerfed. Again, it's a redistribution of null resources so that one section isn't removing the point of having minerals in all other regions. Non-null isn't part of the equation.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-02-22 19:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Tippia wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Yeah that was him, like i said its not a "nerf".
Yes. Sorry about that. Ugh

Grumpy Owly wrote:
I answered above.
Then I've missed it. What's the non-null nerf? No, just because null gets buffed doesn't mean non-null gets nerfed. Again, it's a redistribution of null resources so that one section isn't removing the point of having minerals in all other regions. Non-null isn't part of the equation.


It is if null gets a buff to their capabilites for T2 production, as its says it makes them more competative as a result. As per my comments.

Also if mineral worth is improved for mining across new eden, then the "better" mineral worth of null sec who have the lion's share of the most profitable minerals is also in favour of their mining capabilties. Also if all drone poo is to be removed including high sec then those opportunites for sources are simply excluded and limited more to regional capabilites.

I'm sorry but if you can't see those points as improving conditions for null as the intention is for them, then you are either missing the point or simply in denial becuase it goes against your own selfish interests.

Go idiot troll some other thread Tipia, cause your making yourself look stupid here. And I won't respond to your "lets wind all conclusions" back to the invention of the wheel approach, so don't think about starting that exercise. I provided clear evidence that catagorically compared improveing things for null as compared to high sec. How you can turn around and simply deny that is just absurd.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2012-02-22 19:41:45 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
It is if null gets a buff to their capabilites for T2 production, as its says it makes them more competative as a result. As per my comments.
…except that it doesn't change their capabilities for T2 production in the slightest, since they are already the source of the required minerals — it just means that it's miners all across nullsec extracting those minerals, rather than ratters in the drone regions.

It also doesn't affect any other region's capability for T2 production since they are not a source of those minerals to begin with.

Quote:
Also if all drone poo is to be removed including high sec then those opportunites for sources are simply excluded and limited more to regional capabilites.
The portion of drone poo that comes from highsec is minimal.

Quote:
I provided clear evidence that catagorically compared improveing things for null as comapred to high sec.
…except that you didn't show any kind of improvement for nullsec — it's a redistribution of what's already in null.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-02-22 19:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Tipia I suspect you simply havent gone back to read the point where i specifically adressed your question. I did point it out to you.

And to re-emphasise: I'm not adverse to improving things for null sec as a result of redistribution as my own model helps null sec miners as a result as I previously explained.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2012-02-22 20:22:42 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Tipia I suspect you simply havent gone back to read the point where i specifically adressed your question. I did point it out to you.
Ok, like I said: I missed it. It also doesn't have anything to do with the mining buff of removing drone poo.

That's all I'm talking about: the redistribution of a nullsec resource to a larger portion of nullsec, and the return of a profession that has been usurped by ratting.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-02-22 20:27:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Tipia I suspect you simply havent gone back to read the point where i specifically adressed your question. I did point it out to you.
Ok, like I said: I missed it. It also doesn't have anything to do with the mining buff of removing drone poo.

That's all I'm talking about: the redistribution of a nullsec resource to a larger portion of nullsec, and the return of a profession that has been usurped by ratting.


Well we were talking about the holistic aspects of various changes and considering the big picture rather than just being focussed on individual points as per the conversation in the thread. Nice of you to join it at last, however.

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#53 - 2012-02-22 20:35:07 UTC
T0RT0ISE wrote:
People keep asking for various boosts to the mining industry in EvE but everything that makes mining more profitable as an activity has the knock on effect of raising the costs of every ship and module in the game that relies on minerals in order to exist.



Largest load of Horse-Puckey deposited about mining ever. Please post proof of this.Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
T0RT0ISE
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-02-22 21:09:50 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
T0RT0ISE wrote:
People keep asking for various boosts to the mining industry in EvE but everything that makes mining more profitable as an activity has the knock on effect of raising the costs of every ship and module in the game that relies on minerals in order to exist.



Largest load of Horse-Puckey deposited about mining ever. Please post proof of this.Roll

Take five minutes to peruse the forums. Or dont; I care not what the uninformed wish to believe.
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