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Questions for the community regarding mining
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Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-02-22 16:08:21 UTC
I know that only about 5% of the EVE community come to this site as they 1. see the game as a game 2. have jobs. 3. Just want to play the game. 4. are not emotionally invested in the game. 5. Etc etc, but it should be enough for a straw poll


Questions

1. Do you think that mining should be left as it is

2. do you think that Drone poo should be removed and the drones be turned into bounty rats with a different skin

3. If mining became as profitable as highsec Incursions would you train and then start mining in a hulk



My views


1. Leave mining exactly as it is. the only proposed changes are to turn this exercise into either a click fest or to combat the bots that will just be reprogrammed as soon as the changes are made.

The art of mining. People that mine do not mine alone while staring at the screen. Mining is the EVE online screen saver and requires minimum effort. You mine when

1. You are doing something else such as cleaning, watching a movie, dismembering your ex girlfriend.
2. You are the CEO of a company and your life is no longer your own and its just about all you can do.
3. You are treating Eve like an MSN chat portal.
4. You are mining socially and treating EVE like an MSN chat portal.


2. If you remove Drone poo those minerals will still be taken from highsec which is ofc what people want to make mining profitable again. But as the price of minerals go up so will the price of ships.

Big mention. At the moment but Kernite and Omber sell for more per unit than there refined rate as they are needed for Event missions. This will mean that there will be a huge increase in the price of Mex and Isogen if its not being supplimented from drone poo.

Remember the effect on the price of Nox when CVA in providence fell. It has never recovered.

3. If mining becomes profitable how many people will stop doing what they are doing and start mining. You either understand mining or you dont and it takes a certain type of person to do it.


Your very valuable replies please
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-02-22 16:17:35 UTC
Sorry for simply cross posting but there is a current topic very relevant to the issues you wish to analyse.

The mining 'buff' falacy

It might be helpful in helping others to understand current issues you are mentioning as a result.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Maxine Imillion
Raptor Talons
#3 - 2012-02-22 16:46:32 UTC
In Hi Sec,

People don’t mine because of the ISK. They mine because they either enjoy the mundane nature of rock busting, are distracted and like to be doing something in the background or enjoy providing a product to their Corp from their efforts.

Similar to Planet Interaction, you don’t do it for the ISK. You do it because it is easy and provide a product that does have some value.

It is easier to make ISK doing Incursions or Level IV Missions and just purchasing minerals or PI from Market.

I have mined for years. It is just about all I do in EVE.

If you don’t enjoy mining, then you won’t understanding why Miners mine. It would be great if the system could be adjusted so that bot mining is impossible and would be awesome if the price of minerals increases, but this would just cause an inflation in the EVE economy.

IMO – it isn’t about getting mining to be profitable like HS Incursions – it is about getting HS Incursion profit in line with the rest of the system. Otherwise, after you adjust Mining, then what? Adjust missions? and then PI? and then bounty?

My 1st post here (even though I have read it for years).

-Max
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#4 - 2012-02-22 16:57:57 UTC
Mining is something I do when I'm bored, cause I melt scrap to get minerals from Level 4 missions to build what I need and sometimes to sell.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#5 - 2012-02-22 17:42:11 UTC
Well minerals are already increasin in price, from the drone war civil war. But other then that I dont really know.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-22 17:47:00 UTC
1. No, it's too easy to make ISK off of it and it's too boring to engage in. Which results in people using bots because they can make a lot of money if they had the mental power to do it.

2. Can't exactly say, but I think the best way to balance mining would be to make the rats stronger.

3. No because if mining became that profitable the ISK inflation would be unbelievable and I would probably quit the game out of the rage induced by paying several million for one frigate.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#7 - 2012-02-22 19:52:30 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


3. No because if mining became that profitable the ISK inflation would be unbelievable and I would probably quit the game out of the rage induced by paying several million for one frigate.


You fail to understand the EVE economy. No matter how much veldspar you mine, you do not add one single isk to the EVE economy. Therefore "profitable mining" does not create inflation. If anything it creates an excess of material (ships, etc), which is actually DEflationary. Of course it transfers wealth from the ratters/incursion runners to the mining/manufacturing sectors, but this in itself is not inflation.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#8 - 2012-02-22 19:59:23 UTC
Mining is an isk sink.

If you cannot understand this concept you fail at eve economy. Period.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#9 - 2012-02-22 20:07:59 UTC
I like to mine miners, for their tears and occasionally juciy mods.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2012-02-22 20:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


3. No because if mining became that profitable the ISK inflation would be unbelievable and I would probably quit the game out of the rage induced by paying even ONE freaking ISK for one frigate.



Fixed that. Yawn. Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#11 - 2012-02-22 20:51:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Bumblefck wrote:
I like to mine miners, for their tears and occasionally juciy mods.



Now that we've all settled back with cocktails and such, why don't you tell us some more fascinating facts about your fascinating life and your fascinating game exploits that are so different and special from everybody else's ??????

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Minabunny
Bogus Brothers Corporation
#12 - 2012-02-22 20:57:58 UTC
1.)No
2.)Yes
3.)Yes
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#13 - 2012-02-22 20:59:29 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


3. No because if mining became that profitable the ISK inflation would be unbelievable and I would probably quit the game out of the rage induced by paying several million for one frigate.


You fail to understand the EVE economy. No matter how much veldspar you mine, you do not add one single isk to the EVE economy. Therefore "profitable mining" does not create inflation. If anything it creates an excess of material (ships, etc), which is actually DEflationary. Of course it transfers wealth from the ratters/incursion runners to the mining/manufacturing sectors, but this in itself is not inflation.


In addition to that, the minerals go towards building ships which are later (but often sooner than expected) destroyed in their lifetimes. This creates a mineral sink. With ganks on the rise and exhumers, barges, destroyers, and bcs lost in the ensuing flames, the mineral sink increases. And now that faction warfare and concord-sanctioned warfare will receive some love in the up-coming Eve Online: Inferno, we can all expect the mineral sink to have a boost as more pew pew occurs.

Adapt or Die
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-02-22 21:04:26 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
I know that only about 5% of the EVE community come to this site as they 1. see the game as a game 2. have jobs. 3. Just want to play the game. 4. are not emotionally invested in the game. 5. Etc etc, but it should be enough for a straw poll


Questions

1. Do you think that mining should be left as it is

2. do you think that Drone poo should be removed and the drones be turned into bounty rats with a different skin

3. If mining became as profitable as highsec Incursions would you train and then start mining in a hulk





I'd mine in a covetor in Nullsec in a heartbeat (while listening to Hesperus Vanderbeet's sweet voice on mumble) if it paid 2/3 as much as incursions. Once you have a T2 tanked drake, ratting is just mining with asteroids that move.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#15 - 2012-02-22 21:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Maxine Imillion wrote:
People don’t mine because of the ISK. They mine because they either enjoy the mundane nature of rock busting

Sheesh, those people who wanted more engaging mining were lying to me then!

Teaches me for not mining in highsec more. I'll never trust them again!
Karn Dulake wrote:
1. Do you think that mining should be left as it is

2. do you think that Drone poo should be removed and the drones be turned into bounty rats with a different skin

3. If mining became as profitable as highsec Incursions would you train and then start mining in a hulk

1) You should be allowed an increase of 3x in mining output, to make up for drone regions. More is better of course. More is better...

2) Why not.

3) We'd be making even more than highsec incursion with nice null ores so why not. But probably it would be more a case of newbies just getting a retriever, tbh. Hulks would be people from the days when they were useful, if they even have a hulk, maybe just coveters because they are cheaper?

We need to train for titans you see, titans are the thing to make you feel internet important.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-02-22 21:29:39 UTC
I'm a PVPer, and have been a pvper for.... 5 years now. That being said, here are my views:


Questions

1. Do you think that mining should be left as it is -
No I do not. It should be more engaging, while not requiring a lot of effort and simultaneously making mining bots non-functional. It's a fine line, but there have been some good suggestions like having lots of "dummy roids" that give very few minerals, but the actual valuable roids can be seen by visual ques (and have lots more ore to counteract the dummy roids). Bots are bad at visual recognition.

2. do you think that Drone poo should be removed and the drones be turned into bounty rats with a different skin -
The drone poo should be removed with bounties placed so that their bounty level is comparable to their danger. The mineral economy should really be driven and controlled by the miners, with small sources of mega and zyd from refining modules. Any "inflation" that would occur from removing drone poo would immediately be counteract by additional miners mining. I would even go so far as to say remove mega and zyd from module refining, so industrialists would have a good reason to engage in null sec politics and life. Either that or have their lives run by the "null sec mega overlords".

3. If mining became as profitable as highsec Incursions would you train and then start mining in a hulk -
Under punishment of death I have to say ....................................... maybe. In all honesty I remember the days when I was new and mining was a great profession. Corporations would make it a team effort for manufacturing and sale. I hope to see that again. Mining would never be as profitable as incursions because it's a self-correcting system, but making it a bit more worthwhile would be good for everybody. Miners would get some teeth and actually feel like protecting their investments rather than let the combat guys step all over them.

I'm a ganker and a pirate and a mercenary but I believe in a fair game for everybody, and mining really does need some love.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#17 - 2012-02-23 14:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
I'm all for miners getting shiny new ship.

Take a Hulk, scale it up it oh, lets just say 1.2x. Give it a repaint job and add some lights. Give it FOUR strip miners (or more is better, take up to 8). Ta~da~ Balance it with cost, ofc, maybe 5 billion. A little bit more tank, 1.2x tank maybe?

The ultimate veldspar miner.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#18 - 2012-02-23 17:24:27 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:

Questions

1. Do you think that mining should be left as it is

2. do you think that Drone poo should be removed and the drones be turned into bounty rats with a different skin

3. If mining became as profitable as highsec Incursions would you train and then start mining in a hulk


1. Nope, too monotonous now, and impossible to compete with bots.

2. Yes. Alternatively they can drop components for new drone modules or such, in addition to bounties, but it needs to stop being "stealth mining".

3. Nope, mining is against my religion. If its mechanics were completely changed, maybe. On an alt. On a different account.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#19 - 2012-02-23 17:26:27 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
\
Questions

1. Do you think that mining should be left as it is

2. do you think that Drone poo should be removed and the drones be turned into bounty rats with a different skin

3. If mining became as profitable as highsec Incursions would you train and then start mining in a hulk


1. Should be radically changed to be more engaging and more rewarding

2. Drone alloys should be violated up the tailpipe

3. Already have one, and even then, it wouldn't be NPC cash, it would be player cash; no inflation.

:D

The pie is a tautology
Toshiroma McDiesel
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-02-23 18:10:30 UTC
1) No, I really don't want to be distracted by clicky games while keeping a eye out for gankers. That and probably isn't any way to set it up that can't be defeated by bot programmers (visual cues are probably the easiest to program, scaling up to intercepting data packets)

2) Yes, drone poo needs to be removed, as well as all other means of raw material production that doesn't evolve piloted ships (PI and moon mining) . I thought it was funny when making a new alt the other week, during tutorial missions, Aura states, in big red letters "MINING IS THE BACKBONE OF EVE".

3) I already do, Part of the reason I started playing EVE was the complexity of the Industrial and Economics of the game I haven't seen anywhere else.

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
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