EVE General Discussion

(1) kick out -TF-
(2) complain about lack of targets
(3) ???

no profit for you.

all joking and personal involvement aside - sustainability is a pretty large problem for groups like G0dfathers;
harass too much and the juicy targets will leave, get too annoying and TEST will bring 200man fleets to the fights you try to provoke, but don't have enough activity and your own members will leave.
Why would any actual pvp group want to engage you on somewhat even terms? there is no honor or reputation to be gained by fighting a bunch of pirates and the fight can't be "won" in any tangible sense anyways.

There once was an alliance with a pretty insightful alliance name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equation

You have the choice to either groom your targets with an eye towards sustainability & goodfites or to become nomadic.
Even if TEST were to install some new renter alliances all over Fountain to make better use of the available resources nothing substantial would change for you in the mid-term (after the first 2 weeks of ganks).

CFC let their pets carebear while they get :goodfites: ?

don't tell me that all the "we don't want any sov anyways" rhetoric was a lie !!!

I don't really have a clear idea on the connection between "ability to project force" and "empty space".
The ability to project force mostly affects structure/sov warfare - but much of the most populated 0.0 space I have seen was occupied by renters who would have no way of holding sov on their own with or without easy force projection.
How populated space is mostly depends on the number of carebears it attracts imo, the pvpers will always be away harassing someone else or fighting some border conflict.
Wormholes, incursions and the anom nerf have probably done much more to depopulate 0.0 than the sov system ever could^^

(in npc 0.0 subcap force projection is significantly harder and even a small entity cannot be removed from space against its will but in my experience this doesn't result in higher population numbers)

I do not understand the problem. The alliance went to war, to have fun, to shoot things. How does that stiffles the game? Should they be only able to sit in their own space and entertain you guys?
Please specify and expand what is the problem and how you see it. And please provide a solution, in your opinion ofc, otherwise this discussion is worthless.

Ok, I'll try. One of the oft-quoted issues with eve as a game is the progression of players into null-sec space. Back before capital ships the game-play was quite localised for most players - logistics was the prime limitation as there were no cyno-capable ships, jump bridges didn't exist, nor did haulers bigger than the standard industrial ships. Empires had definite borders which were the sparking points for conflicts and there were many at these local levels. If you left your space empty it would be taken. You would suffer the loss of resources to someone else- but at least there had to be someone else there using it otherwise the space would be claimed by another of your neighbours.

Currently this happens less and less often as force projection allows a given side to hold that space and resource without needing to use it themselves, and without requiring much presence to prevent others from taking it - it's now sufficient to be able to hop back for the one critical moment in time that the pos/outpost/poco/whatever hits a key timer, and it's also too easy to arrange the logistics. I would prefer a situation where moving such a massive force across eve required real planning, effort and time; when the conquest of other space matters for what you ADD to your empire in the way of space and resources to grow, not for what currently happens which is the cherry picking of specific moons across the entire map (for example).

I can only see this balance being re-established if travel becomes more of a burden to a fighting force and if leaving vacant systems behind becomes a real risk to your holdings. Empty space that cannot easily be taken by smaller entities prevents entry into null sec for many.

I hope that helps set out what I'm trying to convey?

Oh no! Does the big bad pirate not like it when we can drop 100 people on your head without any notice? This is what you get for living next to the third largest alliance in the game. If you'd like, we can move TEST into wy- for a few weeks and see how your alliance membership holds up. Then you won't have to worry about big bad TEST and power projection; we'll be right in system!

invite people to live in 0.0

OMG that is against the gankers creed.

Well you've certainly shown your colours.

This is not about targets.

Was that clear enough for you? Sorry, I know one word has two syllables, but hopefully you can get someone help you with that.

It's sad when I can begin to have a reasonable discussion with the people on the other side of this particular fence, and then we get idiots leaping in with both feet firmly in their oversized mouths. At least Florestan and Red Templar are open to the actual issue I am trying to raise and not resorting to ad hominem cliched retorts. Please, leave us to discuss this and go get your posting count raised elsewhere. I expected it from the likes of silentmajority, but you have disappointed me Tanya.

Well **** it I'll post, I have an alt. somewhere in Blood Raider space, there's 'war' going on here too ( supposedly anyway ) NPC space near the territories of the big alliances are filled with enemies but yes, the moment I've gotten to quieter space there's absolutely no one aside from a couple of bots who I'm convinced are mining out the rare or before I can get to it.

This makes manufacturing in 0.0 completely pointless because all I've got to play with are the noob minerals that you can get in high sec anyway, I'm pretty sure the big alliances in 0.0 space have a monopoly over it, sure, it's divided up in regions and you have people warring with each other, but they're mostly skirmishes. I've never seen them actively trying to take each other out, it also turns out that the space I'm in have a lot of Russians so I can't join up with them really either.

The stargates and the entrances to 0.0 are the biggest problem, the 0.0 alliances just camp them all day and leave the rest of their space empty, what we need are either so many entrances to 0.0 that they spread themselves thin or, I know I'm going to get trolled for this, have 0.5 high sec systems nearby the entrances with cloning services because I've noticed that a lot more sovereignty changes hands in those areas than the ones with low sec systems next to them, simply because alliances can't camp 24/7 in high sec.

I want to ask 0.0 alliances something, if there really are wars going on and your actively seeking to beat the crap out of each other? Then why the hell is it that there are alliances there that have the time to gate camp stargates to low sec and yet leave their back doors open?

It's damn well suspicious, CCP seriously need to send some GM's over there and be hidden from local so they can check it out, this kind of thing is what makes destructible space stations in 0.0 a good idea to me.

The reason you have done yourself a disservice is that by pointing the finger at a specific entity you are inadvertently drawing attention away from the fact that this is a game-wide problem. TEST, or any other major player, would be stupid not to control and defend as much space as possible. The real problem is that groups with as many pilots and as much firepower as they have can do so back and forth across the cluster without having to take strategic losses. The issue isn't with something they have control over at all. The problem is one of mechanics. If you were in their shoes you would use those same mechanics.

Anyways, we're on the same side, just please realize that TEST didn't create force projection, they are just using it.