These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

My Idea on How to Change Mining

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lord Sheer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-22 06:02:47 UTC
There's a heavy load of threads at the moment about the need to improve mining, and counter-acting the bots which currently dominate this industry. Here is my idea to address this:

In all normal belts, replace the normal asteroids with a new, sub-par alternative. For example, replace 95% of the Veldspar asteroids with something like 'Light Veldspar' or 'Poor Veldspar'. This only refines to say, 25% of normal Veldspar.

To balance this, create hidden asteroid belts which appear in the ship scanner in the same way cosmic anomalies work. When you fly to these, they should include roids, and some form of obstacle which prevents initially prevents you from mining. This obstacle requires human interaction to complete, or at least something very difficult for a bot to perform. I imagine this could be anything from a large collideable structure which you need to navigate around manually, to a message popping up and telling you your neocomp has failed, and you cannot activate high-slots until you solve a series of capicha questions. (open to further suggestions of this part)

The rewards for finding the hidden belts, is these contain Dense and Concentrated Veldspar which should be buffed in their bonuses from 10% and 5% to, say 200% and 100%.

Because it would get rather boring running though the obstacles time and again, you give mining barges an Ore Hold like the Orca and Roqual which would hold say, 45,000m3, or about enough to take 20-30 minuets to fill. This may downgrade the Orca in its usefulness, so it could be buffed in some other way, for examples to give higher command bonuses.

Obviously, most of these numbers are guesswork, so any of them could be tweaked. The goal is to allow real miners a new advantage over bots, without changing the core dynamic of mining to far. This could both give real players a better experience mining, and also only restrict the bots should CCP not want to force them out the game completely.

I would love to hear what people think on this
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#2 - 2012-02-22 06:25:10 UTC
I think that if your thread title involves the word "idea" it probably belongs somewhere else.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-02-22 08:45:16 UTC
FluffyDice wrote:
I think that if your thread title involves the word "idea" it probably belongs somewhere else.

Indeed.

So far as a response to the idea, this may just cause an exodus of miners who like to just afk, along with all the botters. This would cause a huge increase in mineral prices, which I doubt will be counteracted by the new better grav sites. Or I could be wrong. This would definitely harm botters, though.

Some notes: captcha is for no. Also, "navigating" in mining barges is not something that happens. They are slower and less maneuverable than plated and trimarked battleships. Other better challenges would be cool, though.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#4 - 2012-02-22 10:12:03 UTC
wouldnt fix mining. make gun mining most attractive.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#5 - 2012-02-22 11:16:00 UTC
want to change minning ? I will tell you what you should do.

Take all miners and go to DRONES Regions and camp all ratters there (in clocky ships). Prices will change :)
Pure and Simple :)
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#6 - 2012-02-22 11:27:59 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
want to change minning ? I will tell you what you should do.

Take all miners and go to DRONES Regions and camp all ratters there (in clocky ships). Prices will change :)
Pure and Simple :)


As someone who lives in drone-space I must point out a flaw in your plan:

AFK cloaky- campers (and yeah we get these all the time) will not stop people from ratting, it will only make people become smarter/more careful about their ratting, as in "please hot drop us we have the supercaps on stand-by just waiting for you to take the bait".

As for campers stopping miners that's not true, it merely forces them to move somewhere else. Do you know how amazingly hard it is to pile jump clones and mining ships into a rorqual and set up a small tower elsewhere? Oh wait, it's not hard at all.

Personally I can't wait for CCP to implement a way to deal with the AFK cloakers. Hopefully without killing cloaking for everyone because it does have its uses (like blockade running). I personally favor the "cloaks now use fuel" approach, or the "scan to decloak" approach since they would allow players who are present to gather intel, etc while absolutely ending the guy who logs in a cloaky ship after downtime and then leaves for work.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#7 - 2012-02-22 11:33:02 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
want to change minning ? I will tell you what you should do.

Take all miners and go to DRONES Regions and camp all ratters there (in clocky ships). Prices will change :)
Pure and Simple :)


As someone who lives in drone-space I must point out a flaw in your plan:

AFK cloaky- campers (and yeah we get these all the time) will not stop people from ratting, it will only make people become smarter/more careful about their ratting, as in "please hot drop us we have the supercaps on stand-by just waiting for you to take the bait".

As for campers stopping miners that's not true, it merely forces them to move somewhere else. Do you know how amazingly hard it is to pile jump clones and mining ships into a rorqual and set up a small tower elsewhere? Oh wait, it's not hard at all.

Personally I can't wait for CCP to implement a way to deal with the AFK cloakers. Hopefully without killing cloaking for everyone because it does have its uses (like blockade running). I personally favor the "cloaks now use fuel" approach, or the "scan to decloak" approach since they would allow players who are present to gather intel, etc while absolutely ending the guy who logs in a cloaky ship after downtime and then leaves for work.


Two days ago my friends was able to turn OFF huge area with just few ppl in cloacky ships. They killed many Ratters in their shiny pimped ships. So please.... I know what im saying :) Depends how good you are in it :)

And at the end Ally paid Them to leave :)
Herold Oldtimer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-02-22 12:02:16 UTC
Since this was posted in the general discussion forum I will have to assume that this is not, in fact, an idea to imrpove mining, but rather an attemt to open up discussion about general stuff. so I will take out this snip from your OP and discuss about it.

Quote:
This obstacle requires human interaction to complete, or at least something very difficult for a bot to perform. I imagine this could be anything from a large collideable structure which you need to navigate around manually, to a message popping up and telling you your neocomp has failed, and you cannot activate high-slots until you solve a series of capicha questions. (open to further suggestions of this part)


Improving upon human interaction generally is a good thing (death to bots and all that), but in my opinion forcing a player to do something other than what he originally wanted to do before he can do what he want to do is not a good thing. Another idea that get proposed a lot in the F&I section is the scanable mining sites. They usually suggest that all mining sites have to be probed down to be able to be mined, and while I can agree that the feature would most likely kill all but the most advanced bots (I think), it is still forcing a player to do something before he can do what he originally wanted.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#9 - 2012-02-22 12:23:13 UTC
Lord Sheer wrote:

Because it would get rather boring running though the obstacles time and again, you give mining barges an Ore Hold like the Orca and Roqual which would hold say, 45,000m3, or about enough to take 20-30 minuets to fill.


Don't you think this would be a huge boost to BOTs?????

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#10 - 2012-02-22 12:39:27 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:


Two days ago my friends was able to turn OFF huge area with just few ppl in cloacky ships. They killed many Ratters in their shiny pimped ships. So please.... I know what im saying :) Depends how good you are in it :)

And at the end Ally paid Them to leave :)


Sounds like they deserve to be camped. Who is this? That way you can keep your end of the deal, and we can extract some isk from them too... sheesh lucky you for finding such noobs.

I must say that if you try this in Bloodbound. space you would be disappointed, however. While I can't speak for the alliance our historical response to cloaky campers is to take their sov while they camp our systems...
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-02-22 14:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
And so genuine miners are made to jump through ridiculous unrealistic hoops to solve a problem with botters.

Shows that the concern is purely and soley focussed at any botting problems and not miners interests. Potentially making it seriously less fun to do mining in the process.

Changing locations of sources or making roids move will not make botters worse it will improve them as botters will find a way to find them or compensate for movement, they are simply quicker at it then players, whereas its now simply longer for other miners to obtain sources.

The "questioning" like forums to check for human interaction I can see as a valid method, but not at the expense to other issues. Easier simply to make roid targetting have a similar method. But it seems like a "noddy" way to compensate for botters that seriously breaks any immersion.

I had thought and still do to some extent that this is/was a "joke" thread due to where it was posted.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-02-22 15:37:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Lord Sheer wrote:
There's a heavy load of threads at the moment about the need to improve mining, and counter-acting the bots which currently dominate this industry. Here is my idea to address this:


You forgot to mention those bots are mostly using guns because a single drone bot farmer will drop far more minerals you can get with 2 hulks for sure and taking 0 risks

Quote:
In all normal belts, replace the normal asteroids with a new, sub-par alternative. For example, replace 95% of the Veldspar asteroids with something like 'Light Veldspar' or 'Poor Veldspar'. This only refines to say, 25% of normal Veldspar.

To balance this, create hidden asteroid belts which appear in the ship scanner in the same way cosmic anomalies work. When you fly to these, they should include roids, and some form of obstacle which prevents initially prevents you from mining. This obstacle requires human interaction to complete, or at least something very difficult for a bot to perform. I imagine this could be anything from a large collideable structure which you need to navigate around manually, to a message popping up and telling you your neocomp has failed, and you cannot activate high-slots until you solve a series of capicha questions. (open to further suggestions of this part)


This will not solve bots problem at all, all the guy has to do is bring one by one in the belt and let them sit there while hauling in his orca....you've just made bot mining safer and more profitable.

Quote:
The rewards for finding the hidden belts, is these contain Dense and Concentrated Veldspar which should be buffed in their bonuses from 10% and 5% to, say 200% and 100%.

Because it would get rather boring running though the obstacles time and again, you give mining barges an Ore Hold like the Orca and Roqual which would hold say, 45,000m3, or about enough to take 20-30 minuets to fill. This may downgrade the Orca in its usefulness, so it could be buffed in some other way, for examples to give higher command bonuses.

Obviously, most of these numbers are guesswork, so any of them could be tweaked. The goal is to allow real miners a new advantage over bots, without changing the core dynamic of mining to far. This could both give real players a better experience mining, and also only restrict the bots should CCP not want to force them out the game completely.

I would love to hear what people think on this



All of the above is completely and utterly useless as long as you can mine with guns and as long as you can loot minerals instead of mining those, or reprocess those items once you've acquired high reprocessing skills like Metalscrap reprocessing.

Your idea is replacing one problem by another. First things first, start by removing completely alloys from drones, make it impossible to use reprocess facilities without at least Metalscrap processing lvl1

This is how you WILL make mining profitable but not how to get rid of bots. Captcha stuff is game immersion breaking and you'll not solve bots problem, you'll just make real miners life harder.

Multi boxing IS a bot related problem
Ability to use more than 2 open clients IS a bot related problem

You can't stop guys from bot'n but you can make their life harder in game and costy IRL. How is another discussion that should not be discussed on public forums, but the name of accounts banned for bot reason should be public
Mokokan
Transtar Services
#13 - 2012-02-22 15:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mokokan
Grumpy Owly wrote:
And so genuine miners are made to jump through ridiculous unrealistic hoops to solve a problem with botters.

Shows that the concern is purely and soley focussed at any botting problems and not miners interests. Potentially making it seriously less fun to do mining in the process.....................

I had thought and still do to some extent that this is/was a "joke" thread due to where it was posted.


+1. If the choice is between mining being (1)a somewhat boring, tedious, mind-numbing exercise OR (2) a complete PITA and a total waste of time, I think I'll take door number 1, Alex.

Mining, as with most EVE endeavors, is made enjoyable by doing it with friends/corpmates. NOT by adding random puzzles and obstacles.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2012-02-23 17:47:14 UTC
Moved from General Discussions.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer