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[PODCAST] Bringing Solo Back == EPISODE 21 (December 21) *Retribution Episode*

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Jezs
This is not the corporation you are looking for
#201 - 2012-02-17 03:59:04 UTC
troll success and 11th page snypa?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#202 - 2012-02-17 04:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Rasz Lin wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Kovorix wrote:
Drakes also may not specifically plug EM damage, but given their generally high resists the difference between kinetic and EM will be less than the 25% damage bonus you get for kinetic.

That's a mistake. No matter how high the resist is, the percentage difference is still the same.

Say, base EM resist is 0%, base kinetic 40% (for the sake of simplicity). In this case kinetic missiles deal (100-40)*1.25 % of their base damage while EM ones deal full 100, so it's 75/100 ratio.
Let's assume he plugs in 2 invuls and his resists go up more or less this way: 50% EM, 70% kinetic. The damage output is now (100-70)*1.25 for kinetic and (100-50) for EM. The ratio is 37.5/50 - still the same.

Even in case you're doing like 0.1 damage per missile (due to sig/speed ratio or whatever) loading more suitable damage type will always give you the same percentage difference.


learn2math mister Fon Revedhort for CSM 7
you cant apply drake kinetic bonus AFTER enemy resists, so

>(100-70)*1.25 for kinetic and (100-50) for EM. The ratio is 37.5/50

its more like

100*1.25-70 for kinetic and (100-50) for EM. The ratio is 55/50

but also learn2drake mister Fon Revedhort for CSM 7

drake with 2 invulns is 66 EM 80 Kin
so the equation comes out to
100*1.25-80 for kinetic and (100-66) for EM. The ratio is 45/34

35dps difference on T2 fitted drake, thats more than a difference between shooting T1 and faction ammo

You can't subtract 70% (!) from 125 either, that's bullshit. That's like subracting energy from mass. By your logic, at 100% resist you're still doing damage (25 of it) Big smile

LOL

Instead, you should multiply damage by (100-resist)/100 coeficient.

Also, you should be comparing EM/kinetic damage application before and after invuls are fitted. And exact numbers are totally irrelevant.

Btw, "100" in my original post ins't damage, that's percentage. Hope it's now clear for you.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
#203 - 2012-02-17 09:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zach Donnell
Fon is right, but a little confusing. I'd like to try to simplify this a bit, as these things can get important down the road. When you are beyond the 'initial learning' stages.

I used a drake with the following fit, simply for testing numbers:

[high slots]
7x HML II (with either Trauma or Mjolnir Fury)

[med slots]
2x Invuln II

[low slots]
DC II
3x BCU II

rest of the slots are irrelevant for this test

Key drake resistances
EM: 66%
Kinetic: 79.6%

Resistances essentially mean, that that percentage of your damage is 'blocked.' 100-resistance is the % that gets through.

So in this case,

Shooting EM missiles from the drake you get 370 dps, 34% (100-66) of it will 'get through' = 125.8 dps
Shooting Kin missiles from the drake you get 462 dps, 20.4% (100-79.6) of it will 'get through' = 94.25 dps

EM is much better of a choice in this situation.

It is misleading because while yes 79.6% kin - 66% EM is less than 25% difference, the key stat is that your effective dps ( the % that get's through) jumps from 20.4% to 34% when switching from kinetic to EM, which is a 66.67% increase, and is greater than the ~25% bonus to kinetic damage. (It's actually slightly more than 25% total, but that's for another discussion)

I am probably beating a dead horse at this point, but Fon and Rasz's discussion seemed to only make things more confusing in my opinion. Hope this helps.
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#204 - 2012-02-17 10:31:17 UTC
Thanks for explaining it in such simple terms zach. Makes it much clearer for people like me who suck at maths hehe (we seem to be in the minority in EVE Online :/ ).

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.
Haeri
Club Bear
#205 - 2012-02-17 10:43:12 UTC
EVE Online - the only place where math majors could be considered "winners".

/me hides

YouTube: HaeriEVE  |  Twitter: @Haeri_EVE  |  Club Bear
Truffles Makanen
Lights Out.
#206 - 2012-02-17 23:14:42 UTC
As i was sitting here thinking, i thought of something you can talk about in your podcast, now idk if someone has brought this up already, but maybe talk about what skills are essential to have for new people like if they want to go combat what are some essential skills that you need in order to fit properly, etc and whether or not you want to focus your training, etc. Just a suggestion.
Andrew Goebel
Blue Solutions
#207 - 2012-02-17 23:32:56 UTC
Thank you for this podcast. It brought me back into eve. Which is good or bad. Whatever, you succeeded. Excellent work and keep up the good work.
Havak II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#208 - 2012-02-18 01:24:02 UTC
Ok how about for Hurricanes. Load ammo that hits thier resist hole or just use Explosion ammo??
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#209 - 2012-02-18 02:55:51 UTC
Sweet podcast. I listend to the first part and im now on part 6 with Garmon.
It would be great to have you guys do this years alliance tournament commentary together with Garmon Big smile

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Sard Caid
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#210 - 2012-02-18 18:30:44 UTC
Just finished the sixth recording.

I think the first half or so was brilliant - you were really able to pick apart the guest's brain and get some great back and forth going about various topics. I didn't like in the last 1/3 of the clip where there was the drawn out discussion about tornados vs vagabonds, then the rehashing of what Garmon was stating right after he stated things.

From his cries to stop I'm guessing he was tired, and talking for an hour and a half about anything is taxing, so perhaps try to do podcasts with different TZ players in their TZ, as well as planning to keep the recording shorter, then going longer if all participants agree.
Haeri
Club Bear
#211 - 2012-02-18 18:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Haeri
Havak II wrote:
Ok how about for Hurricanes. Load ammo that hits thier resist hole or just use Explosion ammo??

Let's assume we're talking about wether it's best to keep Hail M loaded while shooting through the shields of a drake or to switch to RF phased plasma M, best damage profile to use against a drake with an EM rig.

This is easy to calculate if you're willing to make some assumptions. All values used are from pyfa.

Let's assume we're at our optimal 1.5 km with no transversal velocity, no TEs and 3 gyros with perfect skills without heat. Our "on paper" dps with Hail is 689. With RF phased plasma it is 617.

Let's assume the drake is a nano fit with 2 LSE IIs, 2 core defene field extenders, 1 anti-em rig no DCU, also with perfect skills. Its effective HP against a Hail profile is about 45,300 and against RF PP it's 30,800. Let's ignore shield recharge rate since I'm not a masochist.

WIth Hail, it will take us 45,300 hp / 689 hp/s ≈ 66 s to get through the shields.
With RF PP: 30,800 hp / 617 hp/s ≈ 50 s

So obviously RF PP is better, but surprisingly (Kil2 will hit me for this) it's even worth it to take an extra 10 seconds to reload from Hail in the beginning of the fight.

Again, this is a simplified reality. You could use some algorithms to calculate at which point exactly the advantage of switching to RF PP is still worth it and take alpha and tracking speed etc etc into account. Maybe something for the fitting tool devs to take a look at (and how I'll spend my sunday… thanks a lot dude) :D

YouTube: HaeriEVE  |  Twitter: @Haeri_EVE  |  Club Bear
T0RT0ISE
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2012-02-18 19:01:01 UTC
Why is this even being discussed. I thought it was all rather obvious.
Havak II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2012-02-19 00:30:00 UTC
Another thought. Club Bear recruiting is closed except for EU FC's. Mabey have a small part where you showcase another good pvp alliance or corp that is looking for memebers. The Corp window is full of idk if they are pirates or what. and lots of them have almost no members so you dunno if they are even active.


Anyhow I love your pod casts and youtube video's, and until I find a home I will continue to beat my head against low/null sec solo :P
Labceh
Little Willies
#214 - 2012-02-21 20:45:12 UTC
This needs to stay on the first page.
Kil2
Club Bear
#215 - 2012-02-21 21:43:51 UTC
Labceh wrote:
This needs to stay on the first page.


o/\o
FreshClip
Tax On Happyness
#216 - 2012-02-21 22:16:21 UTC
You have my bump.

[u]My Blog:[/u] http://freshclipmedia.blogspot.co.uk/

[u]My youtube channel:[/u] http://www.youtube.com/user/FreshClipMedia
Kovorix
Matari Exodus
#217 - 2012-02-21 22:31:41 UTC
FreshClip wrote:
You have my bump.


and my axe?

Better make this post useful - taking suggestions for a specific ship to focus on for part of this week's podcast, what ship do you want to know about flying and flying against?
Sard Caid
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#218 - 2012-02-21 22:38:29 UTC
Sure.

Linked 100mn AB T3's, and let's say the heavy neut curse.
Haeri
Club Bear
#219 - 2012-02-21 22:38:57 UTC
Kovorix wrote:
Better make this post useful - taking suggestions for a specific ship to focus on for part of this week's podcast, what ship do you want to know about flying and flying against?

Hmm, you've already talked a lot about the Brotix and the Talos as well as the HAM Drake. Deimos, Ferox, Cyclone, Armageddon, Megathron, Moa, Vexor or perhaps even Hurricane are my suggestions :)

YouTube: HaeriEVE  |  Twitter: @Haeri_EVE  |  Club Bear
Sun Zue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2012-02-21 23:03:35 UTC
How about Rifter, ruppy, Interceptors in solo (claw, ranis, malediction). Smaller cheaper ships that people would want to fight and or not so worry about losing (for younger players) and how ships size matters w/ outside forces such as gate guns. Also how ships like the graphen ( sorry crappy spelling)T1 ecm frig is underrated in small gang combat.