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CCP Dev's...what developement system do you use?

First post
Author
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2012-02-21 20:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

  • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
  • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
  • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
  • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#22 - 2012-02-21 20:34:48 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works

  • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers
  • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he thinks it should be
  • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work
  • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us



  • Not empty quoting.

    /not far from the truth either.

    There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

    Thorvik
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #23 - 2012-02-21 20:36:27 UTC
    /me sits back and grabs popcorn

    *this could be fun to watch*
    CCP Explorer
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #24 - 2012-02-21 20:44:58 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.
    Yep, sounds about right. Should we patent this?

    Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

    CCP Nullarbor
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #25 - 2012-02-21 20:45:01 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.


    :hifive:

    CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

    Xonus Calimar
    CaeIum Incognitum
    #26 - 2012-02-21 20:53:18 UTC
    CCP Explorer wrote:
    Yep, sounds about right. Should we patent this?


    Just make sure you come up with a cool acronym for it. Otherwise it might never catch on.



    Vertisce Soritenshi
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #27 - 2012-02-21 20:57:16 UTC
    CCP Explorer wrote:
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.
    Yep, sounds about right. Should we patent this?

    lol...I want to know what you are calling it. I like the "Scorched Earth" name.

    Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

    CCP GingerDude
    #28 - 2012-02-21 21:05:34 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.


    Wait, they actually make designs?

    Senior Server Programmer

    CCP Punkturis
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #29 - 2012-02-21 21:06:43 UTC
    I'm more surprised we have a system.. I just do whatever I feel like doing and then all the testing is done on TQ Pirate

    ♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

    Vertisce Soritenshi
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #30 - 2012-02-21 21:14:08 UTC
    I knew there were more Devs out there! Just had to make the right kind of thread for them to troll...lol

    Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

    CCP Unifex
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #31 - 2012-02-21 21:14:47 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.


    A little bit of me just cried Big smile

    Executive Producer

    Lost Hamster
    Hamster Holding Corp
    #32 - 2012-02-21 21:22:20 UTC
    CCP Unifex wrote:
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.


    A little bit of me just cried Big smile

    Do the truth hurt? LolLol
    Don Amechi
    Rock Paper Scissors
    #33 - 2012-02-21 21:24:02 UTC
    We use Agile testing where i work. Unfortunately they dont have a solid 'base' code and are trying to develop one using Agile.

    What you get in this situation is that one day a feature will work, and the next it burns down horribly creating a firestorm of defects. across all product apps that are on top of the 'base' system.
    This in turn freaks out the app devs who think the defect is related to what they did the previous day.
    The 'base' devs act like they did nothing wrong and act like its the app devs who broke the system.
    Then QA is blamed by all devs because they are not testing on the daily build (which takes 15 hours to install, thanks for that) and cannot possibly check fixes from the previous day.
    So what you get to hear in meetings is, "It works on my dev box" all day long.

    I really miss the days of the Program Manager screaming in meetings about daily and weekly bug-counts.

    Agile works for games development really well, but it lacks something when you are creating a base system to run product applications on.
    Herzog Wolfhammer
    Sigma Special Tactics Group
    #34 - 2012-02-21 21:30:26 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I don't really know what it's called but I can tell you how it works:

    • Game Design writes up a design and hands it over to the programmers.
    • Programmer then immediately starts ignoring the design and implements the feature they way he/she thinks it should be.
    • Once the feature has been implemented QA starts testing it and creating defect the way he/she thinks it should work.
    • Then we ship it, go to the pub and high five each others while the Game Masters clear up the scorched earth behinds us.



    I love you guys.


    Do you have marketers? Tell me you put them all in a burning longboat - alive.

    (that's what I would like to do)

    Bring back DEEEEP Space!

    Vertisce Soritenshi
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #35 - 2012-02-21 21:34:06 UTC
    Don Amechi wrote:
    We use Agile testing where i work. Unfortunately they dont have a solid 'base' code and are trying to develop one using Agile.

    What you get in this situation is that one day a feature will work, and the next it burns down horribly creating a firestorm of defects. across all product apps that are on top of the 'base' system.
    This in turn freaks out the app devs who think the defect is related to what they did the previous day.
    The 'base' devs act like they did nothing wrong and act like its the app devs who broke the system.
    Then QA is blamed by all devs because they are not testing on the daily build (which takes 15 hours to install, thanks for that) and cannot possibly check fixes from the previous day.
    So what you get to hear in meetings is, "It works on my dev box" all day long.

    I really miss the days of the Program Manager screaming in meetings about daily and weekly bug-counts.

    Agile works for games development really well, but it lacks something when you are creating a base system to run product applications on.

    We used to use Agile as well and had the same problems. Fix one problem and create 10 more. We switched to SCRUM and life has been so much better since then.

    Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

    CCP Tuxford
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #36 - 2012-02-21 21:42:25 UTC
    I feel sort of bad for derailing this so I'm gonna attempt an proper answer.

    We do use Scrum. The first expansion we developed using Scrum was Apocrypha. In a lot of ways that was similar to the our Crucible expansion in the sense that a lot of developers were involved but for Apocrypha it was for a longer time working on bigger features. I think the key to the success of Apocrypha was that we could divide the features up and have the teams tackling them individually without relying on some central bottleneck that needs to give feedback on every minute detail.

    Our development process been undergoing some change recently, for me we just moved more in a direction of doing proper Scrum. The truth is you can't really set up a process and then expect it to stay that way, it's something you have to be constantly refining.

    https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates

    Vertisce Soritenshi
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #37 - 2012-02-21 21:55:46 UTC
    All in good fun. A good developement process is easily changed to adapt to ever changing circumstances. I think ours changes a little on a daily basis depending on one thing or another. So long as the goals are always met.

    Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

    Nova Fox
    Novafox Shipyards
    #38 - 2012-02-21 23:00:14 UTC
    CCP Tuxford wrote:
    I feel sort of bad for derailing this so I'm gonna attempt an proper answer.

    We do use Scrum. The first expansion we developed using Scrum was Apocrypha. In a lot of ways that was similar to the our Crucible expansion in the sense that a lot of developers were involved but for Apocrypha it was for a longer time working on bigger features. I think the key to the success of Apocrypha was that we could divide the features up and have the teams tackling them individually without relying on some central bottleneck that needs to give feedback on every minute detail.

    Our development process been undergoing some change recently, for me we just moved more in a direction of doing proper Scrum. The truth is you can't really set up a process and then expect it to stay that way, it's something you have to be constantly refining.



    Sounds alot like airspeed wtihout time table and smaller teams working on specific things and areas using mixed skills.

    Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

    CCP Goliath
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #39 - 2012-02-21 23:07:04 UTC
    One important thing to remember about Scrum (and Kanban, etc) is that it's a framework for organising work within and around teams as opposed to a hard and fast "system" for development. One interesting direction we have been moving in is adopting a "Whole Team Quality" methodology, which is becoming increasingly popular in the Agile community, to both take some of the burden (and the hate Twisted) off of our wonderful QA team, and to raise awareness and responsibility for quality of features among each and every person in the development cycle. In short, to move a little farther away from Tuxford's excellent description, saving of course the drunken hi-fiving.

    (although he missed a key step whereby QA write the defect but it is then waived by a disgruntled programmer or designer)

    CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

    CCP Tuxford
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #40 - 2012-02-21 23:30:01 UTC
    CCP Goliath wrote:

    (although he missed a key step whereby QA write the defect but it is then waived by a disgruntled programmer or designer)


    You make it sound like it's no work at all. First you have convince a Game Designer that it's actually by design and have him fight QA for you. This kind of antics probably take up a better part of a sprint.

    https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates

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