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Incursions should be reorganized, not flat out nerfed.
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Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#1 - 2012-02-21 10:49:55 UTC
The problem with incursions isn't the pay outs, because 00 and low can make more if they flew to the null/low incursions. The problem is the pyramid of the pay out; it isn't shaped right. I think that the current vanguard pay/time ratio should be actually the head quarter's payout/time ratio. And then everything should be scaled based on the head quarter for their size and getting progressively smaller until you're at scouts. That would fix everything.
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-02-21 11:11:51 UTC
yes, 0sec and lowsec pay out a lot more, but especially lowsec is far more dangerous to fly with a pve fleet then anywhere else. the income with incursions is way too high partly because there is no risk at all in running them in highsec, yet they pay as well as 0sec and wormhole operations.

as for the pyramid of payouts, yes, youre right, especially vanguard sites do pay way too much compared to the other sites. this doesnt change however that for a risk free enviroment most incursions pay very well
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-02-21 11:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Wow, finally somebody knows what the exact problem is and also has the perfect solution !

Of course, it's only ONE problem and this ONE problem has ONE solution only !

And the best part is, YOU ... YOU !!!! ... thought it out all by yourself !

I really wonder why you're not working for CCP already !!

*shakeshead*


People, why so dumb ? :(
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#4 - 2012-02-21 13:55:35 UTC
Please rename title to:

"Incursions should be nerfed, not flat out re-organised."

It makes so much more sense that way.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-02-21 18:17:28 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Please rename title to:

"Incursions should be nerfed, not flat out re-organised."

It makes so much more sense that way.

this isn't a nerf, it is reorganizing. he's saying that they should have the better payout for effort at the harder end of incursions. since vanguards pay out 10.5mil for about 6-10 minutes of work, after the change, if the average time for a HQ was 30-50 (5 times the amount of time) (I've never done one so I don't know how hard they are or how long it takes) you would get about 52.5 mil (5 time the amount of isk), but then the scaling would mean that you would get something like 7 mil for the vans that would still take 6-10 minutes.
okay, it is a bit of a nerf, but it's also making it a bit harder to farm which might deflate the market a bit.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#6 - 2012-02-21 18:21:25 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Please rename title to:

"Incursions should be nerfed, not flat out re-organised."

It makes so much more sense that way.

this isn't a nerf, it is reorganizing. he's saying that they should have the better payout for effort at the harder end of incursions. since vanguards pay out 10.5mil for about 6-10 minutes of work, after the change, if the average time for a HQ was 30-50 (5 times the amount of time) (I've never done one so I don't know how hard they are or how long it takes) you would get about 52.5 mil (5 time the amount of isk), but then the scaling would mean that you would get something like 7 mil for the vans that would still take 6-10 minutes.
okay, it is a bit of a nerf, but it's also making it a bit harder to farm which might deflate the market a bit.



Also! It takes ages to get the fleet formed. And people have little patience to just sit and do them for 150 mill. So you got to keep re upping members which takes time.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-02-21 18:26:43 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
The problem with incursions isn't the pay outs, because 00 and low can make more if they flew to the null/low incursions.


you're assuming that people use the same fleet compositions to run sites in low/null as they would in high-sec, they do not because there is actually a risk of losing your ship

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#8 - 2012-02-21 18:56:53 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Wow, finally somebody knows what the exact problem is and also has the perfect solution !

Of course, it's only ONE problem and this ONE problem has ONE solution only !

And the best part is, YOU ... YOU !!!! ... thought it out all by yourself !

I really wonder why you're not working for CCP already !!

*shakeshead*


People, why so dumb ? :(


Ha I read the OP your TROLL post & see you already trained trolling & stupid to V...
Where did the OP state they had THE PERFECT SOLUTION?!?!?! OR 1 ANSWER
I shake my ass at you Solstice & feed your trolling with what comes out my back end :P
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#9 - 2012-02-21 18:56:56 UTC
And how does this prevent the farming that forces newer folk who live in the afflicted systems to move?
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#10 - 2012-02-21 19:07:56 UTC
Hathrul wrote:
yes, 0sec and lowsec pay out a lot more, but especially lowsec is far more dangerous to fly with a pve fleet then anywhere else. the income with incursions is way too high partly because there is no risk at all in running them in highsec, yet they pay as well as 0sec and wormhole operations.

as for the pyramid of payouts, yes, youre right, especially vanguard sites do pay way too much compared to the other sites. this doesnt change however that for a risk free enviroment most incursions pay very well



What I REALLY find interesting is that lo sec incursions now are being run at a higher percentage then NULL SEC incursions?!?!?!?! Proves in my eyes that the NULL SEC lords with a few exceptions ( surprisingly GOONs amongst them ) don't want thier underlings making the ISK they can play with in thier own wallets instead of just the corp wallets.
==============
The there is no risk at all fallacy in HI SEC is blatantly wrong & CCP has the statistics concerning it... I don't see how repeating it over & over again will somehow make it true... I see wrecks in Incursions on a daily basis and as a FC always have to scream 'touch that loot & you get no reps due to aggo' mantra so often I have to now put it in my FLEET MOTD's
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#11 - 2012-02-21 19:11:37 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
And how does this prevent the farming that forces newer folk who live in the afflicted systems to move?

Why move? You could start making ISK off these incursion runners by selling at inflated prices items they often use or salvage all the ship wrecks they leave behind in sites!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
T0RT0ISE
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-02-21 19:12:27 UTC
Just remove incursions from high-sec, they pay way more than any high security dweller should ever need anyway.

High sec should be regarded as for beginners only so they can get their feet wet before moving into the deep end.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-21 19:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
DarthNefarius wrote:
What I REALLY find interesting is that lo sec incursions now are being run at a higher percentage then NULL SEC incursions?!?!?!?! Proves in my eyes that the NULL SEC lords with a few exceptions ( surprisingly GOONs amongst them ) don't want thier underlings making the ISK they can play with in thier own wallets instead of just the corp wallets.
==============
The there is no risk at all fallacy in HI SEC is blatantly wrong & CCP has the statistics concerning it... I don't see how repeating it over & over again will somehow make it true... I see wrecks in Incursions on a daily basis and as a FC always have to scream 'touch that loot & you get no reps due to aggo' mantra so often I have to now put it in my FLEET MOTD's


Did you know that Goonswarm and TEST have the largest groups of incursion runners within an alliance? Did you know that Goonswarm incursion runners got the first Revenant BPC drop? Oops! Nullsec incursions are not generally farmed because they spawn more often in sov space (there is more sov space than NPC) and we generally escalate them to the mothership spawn and kill them as fast as possible due to their disruption of logistics.

Hope that helps!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#14 - 2012-02-21 20:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Andski wrote:

Did you know that Goonswarm and TEST have the largest groups of incursion runners within an alliance? Did you know that Goonswarm incursion runners got the first Revenant BPC drop? Oops! Nullsec incursions are not generally farmed because they spawn more often in sov space (there is more sov space than NPC) and we generally escalate them to the mothership spawn and kill them as fast as possible due to their disruption of logistics.

Hope that helps!


-I knew about GOONs now I know about TEST... 2 out of how many NULL SEC alliances care about thier underlings wallets?
I applaud those 2-4 alliances in NULL that have made the stabs at running Incursions gj Blink
-Yep I have the gif of the Revenant bpc Villy had in his cargo hold from the first pickup of a revenant & recall him bitching about how many times it took for that drop in lo.
-Generally the NULL Sec incusrions are IGNORED the lo sec Incursion now are being run more often & they are more dangerous because they are NOT IN SOV... my point is NULL Lords for the most part ( not all but allMOST ) are ignoring a good thing
JUST LOOK AT THE current JOURNAL ALL THE HI SEC INCRUSIONS (even the island or "poket' one ) AND THE LO SEC INCURSION ARE ALL BLUE AND THE NULL SEC INCURSIONS ARE ALL RED... This IMHO is 1 reason why NULL is flocking to HI SEC Incursions the NULL alliances could've organized fleets deepin thier own SOV's to make thier underlings ISK but ignored it & lost members & thier alts to HI SEC incursions when the NULL SEC incursions could have made more ISK.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-02-21 20:27:23 UTC
All you have to do is cut down on the length of incursions. They isk per hour can stay the same, but make them move around on a daily basis to keep burning them out. This is empire space, Sansha isn't going to stick around for long.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-02-21 22:59:33 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
-I knew about GOONs now I know about TEST... 2 out of how many NULL SEC alliances care about thier underlings wallets?
I applaud those 2-4 alliances in NULL that have made the stabs at running Incursions gj Blink
-Yep I have the gif of the Revenant bpc Villy had in his cargo hold from the first pickup of a revenant & recall him bitching about how many times it took for that drop in lo.
-Generally the NULL Sec incusrions are IGNORED the lo sec Incursion now are being run more often & they are more dangerous because they are NOT IN SOV... my point is NULL Lords for the most part ( not all but allMOST ) are ignoring a good thing
JUST LOOK AT THE current JOURNAL ALL THE HI SEC INCRUSIONS (even the island or "poket' one ) AND THE LO SEC INCURSION ARE ALL BLUE AND THE NULL SEC INCURSIONS ARE ALL RED... This IMHO is 1 reason why NULL is flocking to HI SEC Incursions the NULL alliances could've organized fleets deepin thier own SOV's to make thier underlings ISK but ignored it & lost members & thier alts to HI SEC incursions when the NULL SEC incursions could have made more ISK.


Like I said, nullsec incursions are generally purged as fast as possible because as good as line-member level income is, a whole constellation getting cynojammed with nasty rats on the gates is too disruptive for logistics. Sometimes we farm them, sometimes we finish them off ASAP.

Would you rather farm incursions in lowsec or in bubbleland?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#17 - 2012-02-22 00:55:52 UTC
Please be trolls.

Please please please.

I can't go on if anyone in this thread is serious.
Ai Shun
#18 - 2012-02-22 01:01:46 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Please rename title to:

"Incursions should be nerfed, not flat out re-organised."

It makes so much more sense that way.


Or maybe just: "I don't read CSM minutes or know what is happening in the game development direction"

Otherwise, why would you propose something that is almost exactly what has been discussed by the developers and our CSM?
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-22 01:08:09 UTC
T0RT0ISE wrote:
Just remove incursions from high-sec, they pay way more than any high security dweller should ever need anyway.

High sec should be regarded as for beginners only so they can get their feet wet before moving into the deep end.


Ah, nevermind...far too easy.
"If."
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#20 - 2012-02-22 02:16:41 UTC
Incursions should be buffed.

I did mining. It never once got a buff and when the market dropped out it took them years to fix it.

I did missions, they nerfed that.

I ran wormholes, they nerfed that.

I did PI they nerfed that.

Take the nerf bat and jam it strait up your ******* ass.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
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