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One EVE, One Vote, One Chairman: Why You Should Vote For The Mittani For CSM

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Ai Shun
#181 - 2012-02-21 09:04:29 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:


However, my core argument here has been of one of motivations attributed without proof. Reilly is; essentially, putting words into his mouth that there is no proof of. I don't like that.


I am of the opinion that his intentions are less than honest.
I am of the opinion that he works for the Goons, and only the Goons (as he have said repetadely he does).
And I am of the opinion that I can post this on the forum even if you dont like it.


I never tried to suggest you should not post here. You really are good at this insinuating other people are saying/doing things, aren't you?
Jita Alt666
#182 - 2012-02-21 09:04:38 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Even assuming that's true, what's the problem?


Are you serious?

Are you seriously asking why a player elected body who are there to represent the playerbase dealing with CCP to the benefit of EVE Online the game, is instead used as a vehicle to further CSM members in game interests?

Because if you dont see that as a problem, you and I are definitly not playing the same game.


Now that is a different argument. To be blunt, in a democracy, an elected official answers to his or her constituents. If the Mittani is elected to the CSM he is not answerable to you or I - he is answerable to his constituents.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#183 - 2012-02-21 09:06:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Are you seriously asking why a player elected body who are there to represent the playerbase dealing with CCP to the benefit of EVE Online the game, is instead used as a vehicle to further CSM members in game interests?
You are assuming that, in furthering his/their own interests, he's not representing the player base. Why is that?

So yes, what's the problem, should it even be true to begin with, especially since you admit that his interest is actually good for the game as a whole…?


But The Mittani doesnt represent the EVE Online playerbase now does he? He represents Goons. Period. He says so himself.
The CSM should be metagame free zone. I dont belive it is.
Jita Alt666
#184 - 2012-02-21 09:08:01 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Are you seriously asking why a player elected body who are there to represent the playerbase dealing with CCP to the benefit of EVE Online the game, is instead used as a vehicle to further CSM members in game interests?
You are assuming that, in furthering his/their own interests, he's not representing the player base. Why is that?

So yes, what's the problem, should it even be true to begin with, especially since you admit that his interest is actually good for the game as a whole…?


But The Mittani doesnt represent the EVE Online playerbase now does he? He represents Goons. Period. He says so himself.
The CSM should be metagame free zone. I dont belive it is.


So you are arguing the CSM should not be democratic?
Why pick on one candidate then?
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#185 - 2012-02-21 09:10:12 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:


Now that is a different argument. To be blunt, in a democracy, an elected official answers to his or her constituents. If the Mittani is elected to the CSM he is not answerable to you or I - he is answerable to his constituents.


This would indeed be the case if we had a "normal" type political process on hand. In-game elections of in-game candidates representing in an in-game political body.

But we dont.

Instead we have in-game elections of in-game candidates representing in an OUT OF GAME body that is supposed to represent the playerbase as a whole. And which is supposed to be neutral.
Jita Alt666
#186 - 2012-02-21 09:12:39 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:


Things you've ignored in your opinion forming 'analysis":
Goons were advocated for the nerfing of Tech 18months before the term "Tech Team" was coined.
Goons were advocating for the nerfing of Super Capitals 18 months before the term "Tech Team" was coined.

There may be a level of self interest involved, however to argue that advocating Mittani is only out of self interest for an upcoming conflict with the "Tech Team" is pretty clearly a falsehood.

By the way when were Goons top of the Tech Pile?



Goons were advocating nerfing tech when they had none, or was at a disadvantage versus ther enemies. After they took over Deklein with its tech, and before the **** went down with the NC, I cant see anywhere anything proving they wanted to nerf tech.


Oh so while the Goons had Deklein and Morsus Mihi had Tribute and Razor had Branch and the NC High Command divided up the Tech in Venal?

The tech owned by Morsus Mihi, Razor et all was nothing to do with Goons. Goons had less tech then than they do now. Your desire to lump alliances together into powerblocs and assess their total capacity is devoid of ingame actuality.
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#187 - 2012-02-21 09:12:46 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Are you seriously asking why a player elected body who are there to represent the playerbase dealing with CCP to the benefit of EVE Online the game, is instead used as a vehicle to further CSM members in game interests?
You are assuming that, in furthering his/their own interests, he's not representing the player base. Why is that?

So yes, what's the problem, should it even be true to begin with, especially since you admit that his interest is actually good for the game as a whole…?


But The Mittani doesnt represent the EVE Online playerbase now does he? He represents Goons. Period. He says so himself.
The CSM should be metagame free zone. I dont belive it is.


And in a perfect world democracy would work for the betterment of all mankind not put people into power who are glorified corporate/special interest puppets.

Anyone who is organized and invested enough to care probably isn't going to outnumber the goons and the rest of the majority of EvE are too casual to give a **** about the CSM or even know what it is.

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#188 - 2012-02-21 09:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
But The Mittani doesnt represent the EVE Online playerbase now does he? He represents Goons. Period. He says so himself.
So… what's the problem?

Quote:
The CSM should be metagame free zone. I dont belive it is.
Eh… right. I think you're being sliiiightly unrealistic here. The CSM has long since outgrown its original watchdog intent, and has instead become the “people's voice”. This means it is metagaming institutionalised (and not necessarily in the asylum sense). It's entire purpose is for the gamers to affect the game. Making it a metagame-free zone would make it pointless.

Your entire problem seems to be that you think a single person holds sway over the entire assembly and has unilateral control over the message to CCP and the direction they choose. That's quite silly. They're a body and (at best) advisory.

Quote:
Instead we have in-game elections of in-game candidates representing in an OUT OF GAME body that is supposed to represent the playerbase as a whole. And which is supposed to be neutral.
So what do you have to offer to show that they don't and aren't?
Jita Alt666
#189 - 2012-02-21 09:14:41 UTC
We all know what happened to a large portion of Morsus Mihi's tech now don't we...
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#190 - 2012-02-21 09:16:30 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:


Oh so while the Goons had Deklein and Morsus Mihi had Tribute and Razor had Branch and the NC High Command divided up the Tech in Venal?

The tech owned by Morsus Mihi, Razor et all was nothing to do with Goons. Goons had less tech then than they do now. Your desire to lump alliances together into powerblocs and assess their total capacity is devoid of ingame actuality.


If I am not mitstaken Jita Alt666, neither Morsus Mihi, Razor or indeed any other part of the old NC were shooting them and trying to take their stuff. I think you will find that this is a rather significant factor, when trying to assess a strategic situation.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#191 - 2012-02-21 09:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
let me explain why you're an idiot

- you think that PL/raiden/ncdot would not simply shrug off a tech nerf considering that they have a lot of old money
- you think that there are tech moons that pump out more tech per hour than other moons
- you actually use dotlan, kugu and evenews24 as sources
- you have been called out on all of these and you do nothing but deflect

pubbies are hilarious

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jita Alt666
#192 - 2012-02-21 09:16:55 UTC
It also went OUT OF GAME
Jita Alt666
#193 - 2012-02-21 09:18:32 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:


Oh so while the Goons had Deklein and Morsus Mihi had Tribute and Razor had Branch and the NC High Command divided up the Tech in Venal?

The tech owned by Morsus Mihi, Razor et all was nothing to do with Goons. Goons had less tech then than they do now. Your desire to lump alliances together into powerblocs and assess their total capacity is devoid of ingame actuality.


If I am not mitstaken Jita Alt666, neither Morsus Mihi, Razor or indeed any other part of the old NC were shooting them and trying to take their stuff. I think you will find that this is a rather significant factor, when trying to assess a strategic situation.


I don't shoot my neighbours. Nor do I count their income in my tax return.
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#194 - 2012-02-21 09:27:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Are you seriously asking why a player elected body who are there to represent the playerbase dealing with CCP to the benefit of EVE Online the game, is instead used as a vehicle to further CSM members in game interests?
You are assuming that, in furthering his/their own interests, he's not representing the player base. Why is that?

So yes, what's the problem, should it even be true to begin with, especially since you admit that his interest is actually good for the game as a whole…?


Guys dont worry about what Tippia says.. Its a well known fact he is a goon fanboi, and probably getting spit roasted by both mittani and vile rat at this moment.


Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#195 - 2012-02-21 09:29:06 UTC
That the Goons and their alts and/or supportes would crawl out of the woodwork to defend the great Mittani frankly didnt come as a big surprise.

But

The Mittani wil not do ANYTHING that doesnt benefit theGoons ingame, in his dealings with CCP.
He represents and works for Goons, and Goons only, unlike some of the other candidates.
Follow the debates, take the tests. Use your vote.

And choose wisely.

/r
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#196 - 2012-02-21 09:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
lilol' me wrote:
Guys dont worry about what Tippia says.. Its a well known fact he is a goon fanboi, and probably getting spit roasted by both mittani and vile rat at this moment.
It's about as much a “well-known fact” as the provably false base Reilly Duvolle's tinfoil-hattery rests on…
Also, nice ad hominem. I take it you are also unable to demonstrate any kind of actual problem, seeing as how you have to go straight for the fallacies?

Reilly Duvolle wrote:
at the Goons and their alts and/or supportes would crawl out of the woodwork to defend the great Mittani frankly didnt come as a big surprise.
So my appearance was a great surprise then? That's refreshing…

Quote:
The Mittani wil not do ANYTHING that doesnt benefit theGoons ingame, in his dealings with CCP.
He represents and works for Goons, and Goons only, unlike some of the other candidates.
So… what's the problem?
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#197 - 2012-02-21 09:38:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
Guys dont worry about what Tippia says.. Its a well known fact he is a goon fanboi, and probably getting spit roasted by both mittani and vile rat at this moment.
It's about as much a “well-known fact” as the provably false base Reilly Duvolle's tinfoil-hattery rests on…
Also, nice ad hominem. I take it you are also unable to demonstrate any kind of actual problem, seeing as how you have to go straight for the fallacies?



This still remains a fact not fallacy.. I mean for god sake you have even admitted your love for goons over and over again on the forums. Every post against them, up pops Tippia The Troll running to their defense... Dont try deny it. Because you are going to make yourself look more stupid than you already do.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#198 - 2012-02-21 09:41:40 UTC
Can someone point to me where in the CSM charter it says the are supposed to be neutral?

Can you point to ANY official document stating that CCP expect the CSM to be neutral?

Do you honestly believe Trebor, Seleene, Elise Randolph, etc all bow down to Mittens just cause he... How was he supposed to have gotten those people to bow to him again?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#199 - 2012-02-21 09:44:20 UTC
Interesting to see any negative posts about Mittani get instantly moved to Jita Park, but positive ones get to be seen by general population.. Hmm Interesting.. He probably does have CCP and their goons in his pocket too..
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2012-02-21 09:45:40 UTC
Andski wrote:
let me explain why you're an idiot

- you think that PL/raiden/ncdot would not simply shrug off a tech nerf considering that they have a lot of old money
- you think that there are tech moons that pump out more tech per hour than other moons
- you actually use dotlan, kugu and evenews24 as sources
- you have been called out on all of these and you do nothing but deflect

pubbies are hilarious


Heh you changed your appearance.

That is probably most important thing there since post no.2 Cool