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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Need Advice about Solo PVP With myself and 3 friends.
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Keno Skir
#41 - 2011-09-20 17:19:59 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
I honestly dont CARE if I burned a bridge with him because his corp is-- like I said-- a dime a dozen, but the point of the matter is that I did not burn a bridge, and my standards are higher than some noob corp.


.....

Alexis Prey wrote:
Please do not give me advice anymore. I find it condescending, and kind of a waste of time. Advice on how to use ships, or tactics-- fine, advice on my people skills? A bit insulting lol


People skills Cool

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Devil's Call
Social safety
#42 - 2011-09-20 17:55:11 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Alexis, on the ONE PERCENT chance you are not a troll, I will say this:

Go learn it. Sitting here or in EveMON and fantasizing what your ideal gang composition in 6months will be is completely pointless. Actually going out and learning what works is going to be hundreds of times a better use of your time. Your average redeemer fit is going to take you for about 800 - 1billion ISK, which you will lose the VERY FIRST time you use it if you're as clueless as you are now.

You're all further away from your target ships than you think you are. Getting the SP to sit in the hull and then heading out in it, is a terrible idea. At the very least, every half decent Pilgrim fit needs Recon V. You'll need around 2 or 3 mil SP in drones to have a hope of killing anything.

A decent rule of thumb I decided on, was that when you can T2 the full fit (low, mid and high slot items for a ship), you're skilled enough to PVP in it.

A Redeemer fit, just for T2 guns, drones and tank, will set you back something like 350days PLUS. None of those things are something you want to skimp on.

Or, you could stop being snobbish and learn in T1 ships, like, say, everyone else. Plus, I don't have a clue where you get the idea that a Paladin is a decent ship to PVP in? Just go ahead and google "PVP Marauder." Or just tell us why you think a ship with the same DPS as T1 hulls makes it a better "damage dealer"?

You'll not find a corp to accept you because your attitude is terrible. You've theorycrafted out some bullshit ideas and now want a PVP corp to accept you, and accept that you'll be learning PVP in 150+mil hulls. OH and the icing on the cake? You don't want a corp that will accept new players. Classic.

My corp accepts brand new players and still manages to hold a ~90% efficiency. We'd have a snowballs chance in hell of doing this with people like you around, which is the reason none will accept you.


This. It's charming to see how ambitious you are about PvP'ing with your friends, but you really know too little about the game to take it to the level you want. My advice is to join RvB with your friends, pick either the red or the blue side and start PvP'ing there. If you take out those pilgrims etc. there you will loose 5 every day. That might be a good learning experience and it will put you down to earth again. You will realise that you'd be better of starting in ships that don't require a shitton of SP to be effective, like rifters or kestrels or whichever T1 frigate.

If you then still find yourself to have a shitton of isk you can skill up for T2 frigates, assault frigates for instance. As you progress in SP you will also be more experienced. (You will also learn that a bunch of T2 frigates can kill that so called 'dream' gang composition of yours. Whilst costing 1/100th of the isk.
Fortunea
World Miners
#43 - 2011-09-20 17:58:04 UTC
so many trolls
Mei guoren
World Miners
#44 - 2011-09-20 17:59:53 UTC
Fortunea wrote:
so many trolls


ignore them
Guy Delbane
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-09-20 18:23:49 UTC
Alright, there seems to have been some speculation on what transpired in a given conversation, thanks to eve I have logs.


[13:03:29] Guy Delbane > o/
[13:03:32] Alexis Prey > \o/
[13:03:35] Guy Delbane > Someone threw me this
[13:03:36] Guy Delbane > https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=82007#post82007
[13:04:11] Guy Delbane > That being said we don't pvp all the time, and may seem to act a bit random
[13:04:36] Alexis Prey > you speak chinese?
[13:05:05] Guy Delbane > But one thing you got right, your employment history works against you..... 12 player corps
[13:05:07] Guy Delbane > No I don't
[13:05:42] Alexis Prey > well if its any consolation 7 of them are my own corps that i created lol
[13:05:45] Guy Delbane > And that text ia Japanese,, part of a pvp group we fly with.
[13:05:54] Guy Delbane > That is a consolation
[13:06:22] Alexis Prey > pebble pushers, kisses, super mega ninja pussies, fortune 1.0
[13:06:23] Guy Delbane > Now as I understood it, it is yourself and 4 friends looking to get in on some pvp?
[13:06:28] Alexis Prey > those were my corps
[13:06:40] Alexis Prey > yes but you have been in your corp 6 months
[13:06:42] Alexis Prey > it only has 30 members
[13:06:48] Alexis Prey > so you recrit 1 member every 1 week
[13:06:55] Alexis Prey > and that is including the new members you recruit
[13:07:00] Alexis Prey > and your not dedicated to pvp
[13:07:00] Guy Delbane > No I don't started off with about 10
[13:07:04] Guy Delbane > and my corp is my own.
[13:07:06] Alexis Prey > i dont think your corp is what we would be looking for
[13:07:24] Guy Delbane > No not dedicated, need to make isk for ships and plex from time to time.
[13:07:48] Guy Delbane > We often roam low, null, and have empire wars from time to time.
[13:08:06] Alexis Prey > i will speak to my friends about it, and if we agree, ill send you a pm
[13:08:11] Alexis Prey > thank for letting me know and the offer :)

So I guess when I convo someone because I hear they are looking for a corp it automatically means I want to take them in.

My questions as for who they are etc are irelevant, didn't even get to ask them, and in short I didn't at any time here say come join my corp, looking over killboards and looking at the atttude I will stand by what I said to gfldex in a private conversation.

I was basically I was just told that my corp sucks, and that they are too good to join with someone that actually can manage to kill other peoples ships.

"I don't want them, they have nothing to offer."
Wolf Domii
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-09-20 18:48:19 UTC
Can I join you guys Alexis?
Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-09-21 04:16:49 UTC
Wolf Domii wrote:
Can I join you guys Alexis?


Hmm, maybe in the future we will recruit covert ops/ recon pilots. ATM, we aren't recruiting sorry
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#48 - 2011-09-21 08:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
To put the final nail in the coffin of this bullshit, I would like to remind you of:

Quote:
As for flying rifters, and other cheap ships, this is an option, but not something I'd personally like to do. My character has almost 5m SP, and all of it is 100% skilled toward a Pilgrim. This means that I can't go around flying rifters, or other things without training some skills-- which would take me off the path I prefer -- 100% pilgrim build. There are pilots with 160m SP out there, and the only way I will be able to even come close to comparing to them is if I 100% specialize to make up for all the lost SP. Even then I'm sure I won't ever compare, but at least with this method, I am closer to I would be had I skilled for several various ships.



In stark contrast to your battleclinic record:

(EDIT: can't link because the forums are ******* awful - so go look) - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Alexis+Prey#losses

* The loss of a rail & heavy missile Typhoon

* The cloaky heavy missile Typhoon

* And an Incursus

All of which, as we all know, are "100%" pre-requisites to the Pilgirm.

I can't wait to see how you fit your shiney ships

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Fortunea
World Miners
#49 - 2011-09-21 10:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fortunea
Khanh'rhh wrote:
To put the final nail in the coffin of this bullshit, I would like to remind you of:

Quote:
As for flying rifters, and other cheap ships, this is an option, but not something I'd personally like to do. My character has almost 5m SP, and all of it is 100% skilled toward a Pilgrim. This means that I can't go around flying rifters, or other things without training some skills-- which would take me off the path I prefer -- 100% pilgrim build. There are pilots with 160m SP out there, and the only way I will be able to even come close to comparing to them is if I 100% specialize to make up for all the lost SP. Even then I'm sure I won't ever compare, but at least with this method, I am closer to I would be had I skilled for several various ships.



In stark contrast to your battleclinic record:

(EDIT: can't link because the forums are ******* awful - so go look) - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Alexis+Prey#losses

* The loss of a rail & heavy missile Typhoon

* The cloaky heavy missile Typhoon

* And an Incursus

All of which, as we all know, are "100%" pre-requisites to the Pilgirm.

I can't wait to see how you fit your shiney ships


you do realize that training battle ship to level 1 isn't difficult? thats all extra you need to fly a battle ship if you can fly a recon ship.

also, cloak? that goes on a recon ship
heavy missle launcher II? also works on a recon ship
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#50 - 2011-09-21 10:17:13 UTC
Fortunea wrote:
you do realize that training battle ship to level 1 isn't difficult? thats all extra you need to fly a battle ship if you can fly a recon ship.

also, cloak? that goes on a recon ship
heavy missle launcher II? also works on a recon ship


Uh huh. You know what "100%" means, right?

You also need Minnie Cruiser IV - also not a pre-req for the Pilgrim
You also need Minnie Frig IV - also not a pre-req for the Pilgrim

But it's actually irrelevant. The point was clearly that the fit was utterly terrible.. and you're all in here saying "WAAAA I want an elite PVP corp!!"

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-09-21 11:03:32 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Fortunea wrote:
you do realize that training battle ship to level 1 isn't difficult? thats all extra you need to fly a battle ship if you can fly a recon ship.

also, cloak? that goes on a recon ship
heavy missle launcher II? also works on a recon ship


Uh huh. You know what "100%" means, right?

You also need Minnie Cruiser IV - also not a pre-req for the Pilgrim
You also need Minnie Frig IV - also not a pre-req for the Pilgrim

But it's actually irrelevant. The point was clearly that the fit was utterly terrible.. and you're all in here saying "WAAAA I want an elite PVP corp!!"



We're not saying that at all. As you seen, we have our own corp. lol
Wa'roun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-09-21 12:57:33 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You've theorycrafted out some bullshit ideas



Whoa! Stop the presses!

You can say bullshit on the forums now?!
Guy Delbane
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-09-21 13:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Guy Delbane
Alexis Prey wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:


Uh huh. You know what "100%" means, right?

You also need Minnie Cruiser IV - also not a pre-req for the Pilgrim
You also need Minnie Frig IV - also not a pre-req for the Pilgrim

But it's actually irrelevant. The point was clearly that the fit was utterly terrible.. and you're all in here saying "WAAAA I want an elite PVP corp!!"



We're not saying that at all. As you seen, we have our own corp. lol


Let me remind you

Alexis Prey wrote:

@gfldex, were not desperate, and we refuse to join a corp who isn't as professional as we /WANT/ to be in PVP. I've joined enough wannabe pvp corps to know better.


Looks to me like you were saying exactly that!, but since you decided that every eve veteran has no clue as for what they are talking about you decided to form your own 'elite' corp....

GL with that!
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-09-21 13:07:46 UTC
Wa'roun wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You've theorycrafted out some bullshit ideas



Whoa! Stop the presses!

You can say bullshit on the forums now?!



You can pretty much say whatever the fuckin' hell you like as long as the whole word isn't in the blocklist.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#55 - 2011-09-21 17:28:18 UTC
Alexis Prey wrote:
It really isn't troll attempt. That being said, we have come up with this setup:

Me: Pilgrim
Zhong: Redeemer "In 130 days" Armageddon until then
Mei: Curse
Fort: Pilgrim

What do you think?



I do realize that we are all generally speaking, new. I have tried very hard though to ind a PVP corp, and have found nothing. The evidence lies in my employment history. If you look at it, you will see I have joined countless corps just to leave soon after for lack of activity or pvp, or what ever else.The problem is that pilots like us who are new cannot get into a good PVP corp, and the corps we can g into are desperate new corps with noone online, and noone who knows anything about PVP. Everything I've learned about PVP is self taught, and I don't say that to complain, but just so you guys understand. It's perfectly reasonable for us to assume that a battle ship is good for damage. Perhaps we are wrong, but please dont insult us for it. We are doing our best with the resources we have.

All this being said, if you can give us any advice on some tactics we might find useful, and other information, I know I'd personally be more than willing to learn. I have read every guide I could on curse, and pilgrim. There isn't many, but I've studied all the top loadouts. In addition, if there is a well estabolished corp who might be as active as I am, and interested in teaching us true null sec PVP, I'd be very glad to join, and I'm sure my friends would as well.

As for flying rifters, and other cheap ships, this is an option, but not something I'd personally like to do. My character has almost 5m SP, and all of it is 100% skilled toward a Pilgrim. This means that I can't go around flying rifters, or other things without training some skills-- which would take me off the path I prefer -- 100% pilgrim build. There are pilots with 160m SP out there, and the only way I will be able to even come close to comparing to them is if I 100% specialize to make up for all the lost SP. Even then I'm sure I won't ever compare, but at least with this method, I am closer to I would be had I skilled for several various ships.

Our Current SP for each of us according to Eve-Mon is:

Me: 5m sp
Mei: 3m sp
Fort: 2m sp
Zhong: 1.7m sp


Another issue is that since your so new it maybe difficult to afford replacements. You do realize these are multi hundred million isk ships that can be destroyed by a BC fleet just a few men more then you can jam. Your issue is that these ships all have very low DPS. 200 average on the recons and around 700 on a redeemer this is considering you have decent skills. Did you know that 2 hurricanes can do more damage then your entire fleet combined.

Because hurricanes are immune to neuts and you can only jam so many people at once say about 5 people. But you only have 1 or 2 minm jammers means you will not beable to lock down a small BC gang like 4 or 6 people. Plus you will have issues killing a hurricane consittering a falcon will melt and be primaryed. Your fleet falls apart from that point. We are talking about near 1000 DPS a BC if shield tanked with buffer and max dps. Not only are they faster then you with mwd, they can tare you apart at close range. Don't think just because your flying more expensive ships that there is not a counter for them.

Raw DPS will beat you every time specially if out numbered by even 1 person or if you lose a cycle in a jam it is all over. You may want to practice before you leap into fielding a billion isk worth of ships that can be beat by a 5 or 6 man BC fleet worth around 300 mil. Or simply a smaller fleet because of unlucky jams. In a perfect world on paper you think you would win but eve is far from a fair world. You should be prepared to die a lot rather then trying to make dream fleets until you can afford to lose the ships you field.

I say this because you all are so young and need some serious experience in learning how to pvp instead of throwing all your isk into ships that you can prob not replace anytime soon. I am sure you will learn that over time. But SP is not everything you need experience before you start flying expensive ships well.

If you are extremely careful you might do well at 1st ganking one person in numbers. But much of the time when they know you have something worth killing they will make bait ship to titan bridge and hot drop you with 20 BS and BC's. Then you can say gone bye bye to a bil worth of isk in a instant. lol

They even do this to BC's just for fun.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#56 - 2011-09-21 17:32:02 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
To put the final nail in the coffin of this bullshit, I would like to remind you of:

Quote:
As for flying rifters, and other cheap ships, this is an option, but not something I'd personally like to do. My character has almost 5m SP, and all of it is 100% skilled toward a Pilgrim. This means that I can't go around flying rifters, or other things without training some skills-- which would take me off the path I prefer -- 100% pilgrim build. There are pilots with 160m SP out there, and the only way I will be able to even come close to comparing to them is if I 100% specialize to make up for all the lost SP. Even then I'm sure I won't ever compare, but at least with this method, I am closer to I would be had I skilled for several various ships.



In stark contrast to your battleclinic record:

(EDIT: can't link because the forums are ******* awful - so go look) - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Alexis+Prey#losses

* The loss of a rail & heavy missile Typhoon

* The cloaky heavy missile Typhoon

* And an Incursus

All of which, as we all know, are "100%" pre-requisites to the Pilgirm.

I can't wait to see how you fit your shiney ships


I LMFAO...
Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-09-21 17:45:27 UTC
Alxea wrote:
Alexis Prey wrote:
It really isn't troll attempt. That being said, we have come up with this setup:

Me: Pilgrim
Zhong: Redeemer "In 130 days" Armageddon until then
Mei: Curse
Fort: Pilgrim

What do you think?



I do realize that we are all generally speaking, new. I have tried very hard though to ind a PVP corp, and have found nothing. The evidence lies in my employment history. If you look at it, you will see I have joined countless corps just to leave soon after for lack of activity or pvp, or what ever else.The problem is that pilots like us who are new cannot get into a good PVP corp, and the corps we can g into are desperate new corps with noone online, and noone who knows anything about PVP. Everything I've learned about PVP is self taught, and I don't say that to complain, but just so you guys understand. It's perfectly reasonable for us to assume that a battle ship is good for damage. Perhaps we are wrong, but please dont insult us for it. We are doing our best with the resources we have.

All this being said, if you can give us any advice on some tactics we might find useful, and other information, I know I'd personally be more than willing to learn. I have read every guide I could on curse, and pilgrim. There isn't many, but I've studied all the top loadouts. In addition, if there is a well estabolished corp who might be as active as I am, and interested in teaching us true null sec PVP, I'd be very glad to join, and I'm sure my friends would as well.

As for flying rifters, and other cheap ships, this is an option, but not something I'd personally like to do. My character has almost 5m SP, and all of it is 100% skilled toward a Pilgrim. This means that I can't go around flying rifters, or other things without training some skills-- which would take me off the path I prefer -- 100% pilgrim build. There are pilots with 160m SP out there, and the only way I will be able to even come close to comparing to them is if I 100% specialize to make up for all the lost SP. Even then I'm sure I won't ever compare, but at least with this method, I am closer to I would be had I skilled for several various ships.

Our Current SP for each of us according to Eve-Mon is:

Me: 5m sp
Mei: 3m sp
Fort: 2m sp
Zhong: 1.7m sp


Another issue is that since your so new it maybe difficult to afford replacements. You do realize these are multi hundred million isk ships that can be destroyed by a BC fleet just a few men more then you can jam. Your issue is that these ships all have very low DPS. 200 average on the recons and around 700 on a redeemer this is considering you have decent skills. Did you know that 2 hurricanes can do more damage then your entire fleet combined.

Because hurricanes are immune to neuts and you can only jam so many people at once say about 5 people. But you only have 1 or 2 minm jammers means you will not beable to lock down a small BC gang like 4 or 6 people. Plus you will have issues killing a hurricane consittering a falcon will melt and be primaryed. Your fleet falls apart from that point. We are talking about near 1000 DPS a BC if shield tanked with buffer and max dps. Not only are they faster then you with mwd, they can tare you apart at close range. Don't think just because your flying more expensive ships that there is not a counter for them.

Raw DPS will beat you every time specially if out numbered by even 1 person or if you lose a cycle in a jam it is all over. You may want to practice before you leap into fielding a billion isk worth of ships that can be beat by a 5 or 6 man BC fleet worth around 300 mil. Or simply a smaller fleet because of unlucky jams. In a perfect world on paper you think you would win but eve is far from a fair world. You should be prepared to die a lot rather then trying to make dream fleets until you can afford to lose the ships you field.

I say this because you all are so young and need some serious experience in learning how to pvp instead of throwing all your isk into ships that you can prob not replace anytime soon. I am sure you will learn that over time. But SP is not everything you need experience before you start flying expensive ships well.

If you are extremely careful you might do well at 1st ganking one person in numbers. But much of the time when they know you have something worth killing they will make bait ship to titan bridge and hot drop you with 20 BS and BC's. Then you can say gone bye bye to a bil worth of isk in a instant. lol

They even do this to BC's just for fun.


We have actually revised our fleet to look like this:

Pilgrim
Manticore
Prophecy
Hound
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#58 - 2011-09-21 23:15:08 UTC
Damn, I'd be perfectly happy to solo that gang in a Drake.

To be more helpful, you've got two high dps low tanks ships that will be quickly primaried and dispatched - don't trust damps or other ewar to keep them alive, without a dedicated recon on the field this isn't nearly as effective as you'd think.

That leaves you, roughly t-30 seconds into the fight, with one tough slow ship with anemic dps and one expensive slow ship that can't do **** unless it decloaks within 2k of the target, at which point both will be kited and killed.

In the miraculous event that you find someone who is not bait/competent to shoot (99% of pvp is shooting bait/other pvpers and getting away with it), none of your ships have the ability to disengage when you get jumped by someone else with a bigger fleet. In short, it's a pretty ineffective setup for 4 people.

Since you're so keen on using the pilgrim, you're pretty much left with a suboptimal setup no matter how you slice it. Pilgrims are terrible gang ships. Set up the manticore and hound for max dps and range, and put the prophecy pilot in something useful that can also bait without being terribly obvious like a harbinger.

Your 'plan' will be to gank unaware ships you tackle with the pilgrim and then gtfo. If backup arrives, everyone but the pilgrim will be able to run, and you'll only lose one ship. After about two days of trying this and being bored you'll realize that there is no one to 'catch unaware' with a pilgrim and that it is generally useless and you'll be willing to switch that ship to something decent and embrace the realities of pvp, at which point you could maybe make a pretty successful gang.
Fortunea
World Miners
#59 - 2011-09-22 08:26:48 UTC
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
Damn, I'd be perfectly happy to solo that gang in a Drake.

To be more helpful, you've got two high dps low tanks ships that will be quickly primaried and dispatched - don't trust damps or other ewar to keep them alive, without a dedicated recon on the field this isn't nearly as effective as you'd think.

That leaves you, roughly t-30 seconds into the fight, with one tough slow ship with anemic dps and one expensive slow ship that can't do **** unless it decloaks within 2k of the target, at which point both will be kited and killed.

In the miraculous event that you find someone who is not bait/competent to shoot (99% of pvp is shooting bait/other pvpers and getting away with it), none of your ships have the ability to disengage when you get jumped by someone else with a bigger fleet. In short, it's a pretty ineffective setup for 4 people.

Since you're so keen on using the pilgrim, you're pretty much left with a suboptimal setup no matter how you slice it. Pilgrims are terrible gang ships. Set up the manticore and hound for max dps and range, and put the prophecy pilot in something useful that can also bait without being terribly obvious like a harbinger.

Your 'plan' will be to gank unaware ships you tackle with the pilgrim and then gtfo. If backup arrives, everyone but the pilgrim will be able to run, and you'll only lose one ship. After about two days of trying this and being bored you'll realize that there is no one to 'catch unaware' with a pilgrim and that it is generally useless and you'll be willing to switch that ship to something decent and embrace the realities of pvp, at which point you could maybe make a pretty successful gang.


so your saying get rid of the pilgrim and prophecy? the prophecy were not using for dps-- but boosting
Alexis Prey
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2011-09-22 08:33:59 UTC
I like your writing style Tamiya.