Jita Park Speakers Corner

Nice job on Voices in the Void, Kelduum.

I feel that you are a stronger candidate now that I've heard you talk, I was initially repulsed by your flawed War Dec proposal which didn't appear to fix anything. Glad to hear you aren't married to it.

It was illuminating to find out your main concern was ending spurious wardecs made by people who didn't stay to fight the war. That's not usually the first thing that comes to mind when people talk about the brokenness of the wardec system.

As a random though that came to me while listening to the podcast, there are two messages from CCP and the community that appear to be at odds:

• You should join a PC Corp as soon as possible.
• If you are in a PC Corp you are ready and even implicitly agreeing to non-consensual PVP (which I don't think is true for many new players after completing the flawed tutorials as was ably discussed on the show).

It made me consider that there perhaps should be different type of corp, a newbie or training corp, that has at least the immunity from wardecs advantage, but is limited in many ways (unable to hold SOV, perhaps some CONCORD taxes to pay for continued protection). Devil would be in the details of course, and would take some very careful design to avoid rampant abuse as we are seeing with NPC Corps today.

What do you think?

Thank you, Mr Above. I hope to be involved in the Lost in EVE podcast/debates this coming weekend, also.


Yes, I'm certainly not married to the proposal, as it is just that, a proposal, however it is unfortunate that some people seem to be stuck in the past somewhat, and become quite confused when they are provided current information which conflicts in their distorted view of things.

As is, we see quite a few edge-cases with the Uni (not just in the corp mechanics), and all the Uni members riled up for war, then them having nothing to do after the first couple of days is really disappointing, but the current cost means that people tend to be somewhat committed before spending the ISK.



Yep, these messages are both valid, but quite difficult to reconcile. However, what needs to be noted is that even in an NPC corp, there's still non-consensual PvP in the form of suicide ganks and similar, and there's very little in EVE which can't be considered at least partially PvP to some extent (barring sitting around in CQ watching MLP).

The problem of course is that if you remove the threat of war from a group, it creates an artificial environment for its members, and would need to be incredibly strictly controlled with a huge range of restrictions to prevent abuse, and would probably not be something I would support for use by EVE University.

If CCP can fix/amend the NPE to get new players less worried about losing their ship, then 'unexpected PvP' may not be as big a problem - the updated NPE starting in CQ with just a pod actually helps with this, as it reinforces that you losing the capsule isn't the end. So, something like a 'Kobayashi Maru' tutorial where you are given a fitted ship and dropped into a no-win situation with other players (or player-analog), with the result well-explained, would likely help.

So you're seriously arguing that it would be better for him to stand by unpopular, flawed ideas, than it is for him to change his tune once his faults have been demonstrated to him? You are letting your particular dislike of this candidate cloud your good judgment and common sense, or you have a wildly aberrant view of how organisms react to stimuli.

@ Poetic License Stanziel

Yes Kelduum is so incompetent he is the CEO of one of the largest alliances in High sec and is also in charge of co-ordinating the efforts of the singular best recognised in game educational establishment.

Personal I consider him to have a good sound base of knowledge. Wether every candidate must know every last intircate detail I don't know. But considering that EvE Uni has a wide curricullum you'd consider some level of core understanding surrounding game mechanics. Certainly nothing that I would adjudge not meriting a place on the council.

As to your supposed reason that he might be "padding out his CV", can I ask why he would feel the need to do that, based on what he has already acomplished?

Also you might want to read the initial post presented in this thread as opposed to presenting your biased opinions in your ongoing hate campign, there is a nice helpfull section called "Why Am I Running For CSM?". Kind of helps explain things from the persons perspective. But of course your projected opinion is more valid of course.

I have an opinion he will make a fine CSM, if not chairman. But of course Poetic your supposition and opinions are of course completley credible and objective that I'm sure you consider that your ongoing voice is the only real disonance of note to the entire campaign that will effect things. And yet everyone knows you are deliberatley trolling in a view to debunk the process.

As to EvE Uni voting for Kelduum as per other bloc voting tactics, I and my multiple accounts don't belong to EvE Uni and will be voting for him.

For anyone entering the thread I suggest you read back and investigate the history and supporting details behind PS's campaign to try and destabalise things for the E-Uni. Primarily an "axe to grind" after being ejected from their alliance due to a "dissagreement of views".

Actually Poetic i find your arrogance in completley projecting you own opinions without supporting evidence as fact rather dispicable. Nor is it a credible debating platform as quite simply the "strawman" approach suggests a lack of maturity or simply intelligence.

However, as has been reported you simply see this trolling behaviour as fun as opposed to be of debating value or credibility, so please continue to bump the thread for convinience. I as I'm sure others will likley continue to remind others of the hypocrasy you represent.

Sick twisted fanatical arrogance. That is what you are making yourself synonymous with from my personal point of view.

Listened to Kel on Voices from the Void. While i agree with Poetic there may be no other candidate best qualified to address EVE's terrible corp UI/role system, it's not likely there will be enough resources for it during CSM7 (though one can only hope). While he can try to frame his campaign that make his controversial views + actions on war decs a side issue, it's one of the main issues in this election. And as far as war dec mechanics (and his proposals about them), Kelduum knows enough to have invented the dec shield but showed weakness in discussing the topic overall.

There's also some pretty severe cognitive dissonance going on when Kelduum talks about his attitude toward PVP, and the Voices from the Void hosts picked up on it.

Apparently EVE Uni received 60 decs a year (which is not really a lot considering) of which he says almost all were the Uni going out and killing the attackers till they wouldnt undock anymore; yet war decs were a severe problem that were a high cost to the uni and needed special measures to address (dec shield). It should also be mentioned no one I know that has dec'd EVE Uni has complained about *too* much fight from them, and in fact the anti-PVP culture within EVE University is so strong it took about 6 hours of convincing EVE Uni to form up a fleet for a fight even with a +4:1 advantage (i can vouch for that one personally and additionally vouch such hesitance was not uncommon).

Kelduum says he's not hostile to highsec PVP and thinks its an important part of EVE, yet invented a way to make empire war prohibitively expensive and strongly approved the GM ruling to sanction all the old war dec exploits including said shield. He has modified his killboard to include the price of war decs as losses counted against their attackers but does not include the cost to maintain the dec shield against the Uni. His "proposal" of what a war dec SHOULD be instead of what it currently is borders on the strange at best and would take massive dev resources to enact.

I realize as their CEO he has the Uni vote pretty much locked. But to any Uni pilots reading this, especially those who participated in or read about or viewed the footage of the great series of fights Noir. had with those Uni pilots willing to take a risk and experience highsec PVP: there's a better way. You dont have to vote for Space Romney and you don't have to settle for a game play experience where getting a war dec notice means you'll spend most of your time docked up frustrated.

I'll see Kelduum this Sunday for the Lost In EVE debates. Tune in folks.

Oh cool, i thought the OP's name sounded familiar.

not voting for him o/

Alekseyev,

While I have a lot of respect for you and your organization. I think you are talking about stuff you don't really understand.

It's easy to say stuff like "teach people to do blahblah" when you're just some scrub like Poetic or the leader of an invite only "elite" mercenary outfit but it's an entirely different beast to run a large organization that is more or less wide open like the UNI and what you might see as a minor inconvenience can seriously undermine the mission of an institution.

Having been in a similar situation as a director of RVB I can assure you that "teaching people the right way" to do things is a futile endeavor. Most players don't read forums they barely read their emails and don't even realize that the corporation interface has a bulletin tab. I watched countless idiots loose ships/pods to Lukka during his little reign of terror folks who ignored every email I sent out explaining how not to be a victims who didn't read any of the forum posts explaining the same.

Add to that the general lack of experience you have to deal with in noob focused organizations and things like the Universities War Time SOP make perfect sense. Hell RVB recently implemented a fine on losing PODs in Jita because so many idiots couldn't figure out how to use an NPC alt to do their shopping and were feeding a steady stream of easy kills to 3rd party deccers who seldom ventured outside of Jita. My own alliance took similar actions the last time a high sec outfit war decced us to try and dissuade the idiots who were undocking pimp fit non-buffered Tengu's at 4-4.

Believe me I know high sec warfare, I've seen plenty of high sec war decs and quite frankly Noir is the exception rather than the rule. RVB has to deal with a lot of the same nonsense, fail deccers who dec a 1000+ PVP alliance then whine because they get blobbed. Or you get the Tinkerhell and Lukka nano*#& types who can sit around and pop newbies with impunity then turtle up in perfect safety in a station anytime a force that might threaten them shows up. And of course the the 3rd type which bring 2 neutral Reppers for every combat ship then whine that they can't get any fights.

Your organization was one of few war decs (outside of the Uni stuff) that was actually fun. Generally they are just an annoyance who interfere with the day to day operations of the organization. So I sure as hell don't blame the Uni for taking advantage of existing game mechanics to deter most faildeccers.

After all what is the fundamental difference between paying Concord to look the other way (war dec system) and paying them to increase the size of the bribe required to look the other way? Dec Shields aren't free the Uni is paying the same that their enemies have to pay times however many organizations make up their Dec Shield.

Understand I don't plan on voting for Kelduum I'll be voting to support my coalition.

But don't get ($&t twisted here. Running a large newb friendly organization such as the University is different from running an "elite" mercenary corp. Also the Uni isn't a PVP school if you want that go talk to Agony they actually run a PVP school or go to RVB which while not a school per se does teach a lot of PVP.

People like Poetic and the other commentators in this thread don't have the first clue what it's like to manage an organization like the Uni sure they can talk up a storm but talk is cheap actually doing things is hard.

Oh then we get idiots like this.



This person obviously has no experience with high sec warfare or they'd understand that those lone deccers only go for cheap ganks and will hide in a station the instant anything remotely threatening shows up in local. (one thing I really like about null is that unless you own a station you can't dock).

The same goes for risk averse gankbears like this guy.



In my experience the only way you get 98% efficiency is if you never engage in any fight you might lose. And certainly not if you venture into the land of bubbles. Yet this knucklehead thinks he's qualified to criticize the Uni's practices?

What ever, I don't agree with Kelduum on a lot of things but I do have an actual clue about what he has to deal with and for the most part the criticisms I've seen are based on ignorance from people who's only experience is in running their mouths.

That's going to be another good one. I might have to play-by-play that as well. :)

Darian Reymont for CEO of EVE University.

I'm being serious. When you say it, I believe it. When Kelduum says it, I think he's just being politically expedient.