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DED Complex loot tables
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Chase The Dragon
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-02-20 19:43:47 UTC
Whilst it's great that there are some really decent drops in 4-6/10's such as the following:

C-A Type Medium Shield Boosters
C-A Type Invulnerability Fields
C-A Type Medium Armor Repairers

It's a kick in the face to the loot table of 7,8,9 plexes. Basically, in Guristas space, a single 6/10 drop is worth more than any module dropped in the 10/10. This is absurd!

I recommend the loot tables for 6,7,8,9 plexes to also include (as an extra) a previous tier (i.e. 7(4), 8(5), 9(6), with a 10 getting a medium A-type drop too.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-02-20 22:58:00 UTC
If this got implemented, I would laugh the first time that someone came on the forums complaining that they ran a 10/10 and got nothing but an A-Type Shield Transporter.

Loot value isn't determined by CCP, it's determined by supply and demand. The more people that want something, and the lower the supply for it, the higher the price will be. The only reason that Med stuff is worth more is that more Med stuff is getting used. If CCP did make this change, and then the market swung around so that Large stuff was more valuable than Med stuff, people would be crying about the Med loot in the 7-10/10 sites.

tl;dr: Both drops and supply/demand are working as intended. If you feel the money's better doing something else, then do that instead.
Temporana
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-02-20 23:19:54 UTC
I think the issue is with non size specific items such as EANM's and Invulnerability fields (the most valuable modules) being used by all ship sizes yet only available in 4,5 & 6 plexes.
Temporana
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-20 23:21:28 UTC
Also, I think the OP said the chance of a medium type module would be an 'extra', not instead of an item(s) in the existing loot table.
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-02-21 00:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kogh Ayon
Chase The Dragon wrote:
Whilst it's great that there are some really decent drops in 4-6/10's such as the following:

C-A Type Medium Shield Boosters
C-A Type Invulnerability Fields
C-A Type Medium Armor Repairers

It's a kick in the face to the loot table of 7,8,9 plexes. Basically, in Guristas space, a single 6/10 drop is worth more than any module dropped in the 10/10. This is absurd!

I recommend the loot tables for 6,7,8,9 plexes to also include (as an extra) a previous tier (i.e. 7(4), 8(5), 9(6), with a 10 getting a medium A-type drop too.


Well I agree....even through the value is not determined by CCP the attributes are, it's not really valid for low-sec to have richer DED loot than null.

But it may not really a problem. People can be attracted to low-sec then go null? I have no idea now.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#6 - 2012-02-21 03:17:23 UTC
mxzf wrote:
If this got implemented, I would laugh the first time that someone came on the forums complaining that they ran a 10/10 and got nothing but an A-Type Shield Transporter.

Loot value isn't determined by CCP, it's determined by supply and demand. The more people that want something, and the lower the supply for it, the higher the price will be. The only reason that Med stuff is worth more is that more Med stuff is getting used. If CCP did make this change, and then the market swung around so that Large stuff was more valuable than Med stuff, people would be crying about the Med loot in the 7-10/10 sites.

tl;dr: Both drops and supply/demand are working as intended. If you feel the money's better doing something else, then do that instead.

Actually I always did find it odd the 5/6 rated complexes are usually worth more than the 10/10 :D Although the pirate faction BS BPC drop is pretty nice, and it is a little more balanced in blood space than guristas/angels. Plus the 10/10s are less mind numbingly dull.

Still, it's all down to supply and demand, truth is whilst low sec (and sov null sec) is insanely safe even for a solo explorer most people just won't go. I seriously know people who do exploration in high sec in pimped Tengus, making terrible isk/hour, and they won't go for a run through Caldari low sec, because they think they'll die hunting for complexes even with a covert ops subsystem on.

Anyway, if you want prices to go down on medium deadspace gear, teach an army of noobs how to fly T3s, scan out rated sites system by system, and farm them by refitting in station to run them Lol

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
seany1212
M Y S T
#7 - 2012-02-21 03:51:31 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
[quote=mxzf]
I seriously know people who do exploration in high sec in pimped Tengus, making terrible isk/hour, and they won't go for a run through Caldari low sec, because they think they'll die hunting for complexes even
Anyway, if you want prices to go down on medium deadspace gear, teach an army of noobs how to fly T3s, scan out rated sites system by system, and farm them by refitting in station to run them Lol


The first sentence sums up the entire thread. And that's the point, medium gear is usually dropped between 4-6/10s and due to the demand of medium items being far greater than that of any other sizes is the reason for the higher isk value of those DED complexes compared to the rest. You want the isk values to change, stop getting people to buy pimp T3s Roll
Temporana
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-02-21 10:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Temporana
seany1212 wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
[quote=mxzf]
I seriously know people who do exploration in high sec in pimped Tengus, making terrible isk/hour, and they won't go for a run through Caldari low sec, because they think they'll die hunting for complexes even
Anyway, if you want prices to go down on medium deadspace gear, teach an army of noobs how to fly T3s, scan out rated sites system by system, and farm them by refitting in station to run them Lol


The first sentence sums up the entire thread. And that's the point, medium gear is usually dropped between 4-6/10s and due to the demand of medium items being far greater than that of any other sizes is the reason for the higher isk value of those DED complexes compared to the rest. You want the isk values to change, stop getting people to buy pimp T3s Roll


The real issue isn't the DED drops specifically for medium ship types, but those for ANY ship type - e.g. EANM's & Invulnerability fields.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#9 - 2012-02-21 16:56:20 UTC
Players set the price you mongoloid moron. The medium a-type is worth a lot because the tengu is great for jewing and people like to pimp their jewmobiles.

The one thing I will say is that the new invulns should have gone to DED 7/8/9 (wtb DED 9/10s btw CCP).
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#10 - 2012-02-21 16:58:24 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:


Still, it's all down to supply and demand, truth is whilst low sec (and sov null sec) is insanely safe even for a solo explorer most people just won't go. I seriously know people who do exploration in high sec in pimped Tengus, making terrible isk/hour, and they won't go for a run through Caldari low sec, because they think they'll die hunting for complexes even with a covert ops subsystem on.]


While I agree with you that these people are dumb as rocks, I have to note that its stupid to tie any sort of isk/hr to exploration. Pet peeve of mine and it makes you look stupid when you try to apply that concept to exploration.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#11 - 2012-02-21 19:00:37 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:


Still, it's all down to supply and demand, truth is whilst low sec (and sov null sec) is insanely safe even for a solo explorer most people just won't go. I seriously know people who do exploration in high sec in pimped Tengus, making terrible isk/hour, and they won't go for a run through Caldari low sec, because they think they'll die hunting for complexes even with a covert ops subsystem on.]


While I agree with you that these people are dumb as rocks, I have to note that its stupid to tie any sort of isk/hr to exploration. Pet peeve of mine and it makes you look stupid when you try to apply that concept to exploration.

You can't easily tie an exact figure to it, but you can usually make a distinction between making **** all and doing alright. I wasn't really claiming they make a specific amount every single hour, just that on average the amount they make is terrible compared to someone doing the same in low sec.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#12 - 2012-02-21 19:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
Simi Kusoni wrote:
You can't easily tie an exact figure to it, but you can usually make a distinction between making **** all and doing alright. I wasn't really claiming they make a specific amount every single hour, just that on average the amount they make is terrible compared to someone doing the same in low sec.


His point is that the standard deviation in exploration profit is so large that any 'average' value is of extremely limited use. Such a value can never provide a true approximation of the income due to the massive standard deviation in drop values.

And, as stated before: If lowsec drops are worth more, then go there; supply and demand is working as intended. Lowsec isn't worth inherently more, it's only worth more because more modules for those ships are desired in the current market and fewer nullbears are willing to go to lowsec, since they can just stay deep within blue space and run sites with lower risk that they feel they should get more reward for.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#13 - 2012-02-21 19:26:01 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
You can't easily tie an exact figure to it, but you can usually make a distinction between making **** all and doing alright. I wasn't really claiming they make a specific amount every single hour, just that on average the amount they make is terrible compared to someone doing the same in low sec.


His point is that the standard deviation in exploration profit is so large that any 'average' value is of extremely limited use. Such a value can never provide a true approximation of the income due to the massive standard deviation in drop values.

And, as stated before: If lowsec drops are worth more, then go there; supply and demand is working as intended. Lowsec isn't worth inherently more, it's only worth more because more modules for those ships are desired in the current market and fewer nullbears are willing to go to lowsec, since they can just stay deep within blue space and run sites with lower risk that they feel they should get more reward for.

I know, you can still make a pretty accurate assessment of making more / less though, unless you're arguing high, low and null sec exploration all on average pay out the same amount? Just because you can't easily quantify something over a short period of time doesn't mean you shouldn't bother applying a value, just that there's little point trying to be specific with it.

Also, I do do exploration in low sec Lol

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]