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Warfare & Tactics

 
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POS Combat Mechanics

Author
Zircalla
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-02-20 15:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircalla
So, after much searching, I find lots of conflicting or unclear data on POS combat/defense, maybe some of you all can clear up some questions for me:
- When attacking an online tower array (say, ECM or Neut), the range is based on a) the range from the attacking ship to the tower or b) the range from the attacking ship to the array.
- similarly, when an array is engaging a ship, is the range a) from the tower to the ship or b) from the array to the ship.

- Do native shield resists (+hardeners) only apply to the tower shield (and not the array shields)? Kind of immaterial, I guess, since array shields are tiny with almost no regen.

- To incapacitate a defense array, you need to do at least one point of hull damage? To get it working, do you just need to get the hull back to 100%?

- I know that the defense arrays, if uncontrolled, will lock on to a random target and 'engage'. Aftter a period of time, they unlock and engage another random target. How long do they engage one target before disengaging?

- It appears that crystal type or projectile type only affect types of damage, not range or tracking? Is this correct?

- Three types of projectile (large) ammo do a total of 48 points of damage (EMP, Fusion, and Plasma). The rest either do 32 (Depleted Uranium and Titanium Sabot) or 20 (lead, nuclear, proton). Do these damage amounts still apply to the guns from a tower? If so, the 48 point damage types also have the max damage in EM, Therm, and Explosive, so the only other ammo that might be of use is Tit Sabot, which has the max kinetic damage overall (although it is hard to figure out how the huge non-kinetic damage from the other ammo would not make up any difference).

All I can think of at the moment, thanks for any help.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2012-02-20 17:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
I can answer a few.


Ship attacking battery - When the ship is shooting, all the range/tracking mechanics work as you expect, from the ship to the thing its shooting i.e. the battery.

Battery attacking Ship - This is where it gets wierd, and I would welcome corrections on this from someone that knows better. The calculations for range, optimal, and falloff are from the tower to the target ship. Theoretically a small battery with short range ammo on a large tower could be completely ineffective against a ship that is physically 1km from it, because the distance from the ship to the tower is very far. However, for the purposes of tracking, radial velocity is determined from the frame of reference of the battery itself.

I do not believe defense batteries have any shield resistances under any circumstances.

To incapacitate a battery it needs one point of hull damage. Repairing that hull damage will change its status to anchored but offline. To online the battery at that point the battery must be at full armor. If the battery requires CPU, the tower must not be in reinforced mode. Repaired turrets can be onlined while the tower is reinforced. Nothing can be anchored or unanchored if the tower shields are below 50%.

Pos gun turrets use t1 ammo, which affects optimal range and damage, but not tracking.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#3 - 2012-02-21 08:01:18 UTC
Batelle knows nothing and I am happy to correct him.

There are no shield resists on POS guns.

The range is calculated from the attacker to the target - regardless of what it is. It is not calculated from the tower itself, to the ship attacking the POS guns.

If numbskull, above, was correct, the farthest guns could shoot you as easily as the nearest guns. In fact, you could shoot the POS guns with impunity, because you could, eg, get a rail Naga with 228km range and sit 228km away from the POS gun and be 270-310km away from the tower and hence be unlockable. This is bullshnitzel.

Eg; you will see people set up many POS's with what I call the bonboniere arrangement - a cluster of guns at the top and a cluster at the bottom (you pull it apart to get the toys and jokes inside, like a christmas cracker, trolololol). People who assault the bonboniere arrangement do so by setting a safespot, eg, 150km above the top gun cluster. On a large tower this means you are in excess of 250km from the bottom cluster.

This, proven millions of times, allows you to halve the theoretical DPS of the tower by being inside the range of the top gun cluster, and outside the range of the bottom gun cluster (assuming you can, yourself, hit out to 150km).

Secondly, does ammo affect POS gun optimals, etc? Answer: yes. This is most clearly shown by fitting different ammo types into cruise batteries and watching the rainbow. You will find that small beams with radio will hit to 120km, and with multis you will hit to 60 or so. But don't take my word for it, test it yourself.

To answer your question about the projectile ammo, yes, they still apply for the tower guns. Because they apply to the cruise missiles, see? You can watch the damage notification name the missiles as they tear your ship a new one.

Again, numbnuts is wrong that "theoretically" a gun with short range ammo could not hit a ship 1km from it, because the gun itself does the locking, not the tower. Again, go visit a POS with small guns and they will lock you first; the large guns and EW mos will lock you last. Anyone who is a POS gunner knows this is true, too, because its much faster to lay guns on an enemy than it is to lay a scram or EWAR battery on them. If the tower did the locking, it would, a) have a scan res attribute, and b) take an equal amount of time for all guns to lock. And same for range.

To incap, it's about 1% of hull damage. It's more than one point, which batelle would know if he ever sieged anything, because you get structure bleed before armour is 100% gone, and the batteries aren't incapped at that stage. Yes, you have to repair the hull to reactivate the gun.

As to the random locking, it is about 30s. However, if you are the only target, odds are this is an academic argument. If you saturate the POS with targets, you can get lucky and have a scram cycle off you so you can escape. This allows an attacking force to pack less logi to achieve the same result, as the POS's DPS gets diluted and spread around the attackers. Generally, budget 5 guns per ship; if you have less than 4 guns per ship, you might be able to get away with less logi. If there is a POS gunner, all bets are off, and you better pack logi.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#4 - 2012-02-21 20:31:09 UTC
well **** you and the horse you rode in on, because you agreed with me on every count but one, and there's plenty reason to think you're wrong on that one too.


As for Batteries shooting ships, i provided a disclaimer and would note that the mechanics of this aspect of pos warfare have conflicting information everywhere. Conversations with pos owners seemed to confirm that the information here ( http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1452664 and http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1078551 and http://eve-search.com/thread/1167399) is accurate.

Also I made no assertions about gun/tower locking times, my reasoning that a small blaster battery with antimatter wouldn't be able to hit a ship next to it is based on the assertion that when the battery shoots, its optimal + 2x falloff would be less than the distance of the target to the control tower.

While it is difficult to find explicit information regarding the maximum targeting range of towers and guns (with and without pos gunners), its worth noting that all towers have an activation proximity of 250km, all railgun/artillery/beam batteries have an activation proximity of 330km, and all blaster/autocannon/pulse batteries have an activation proximity of 90km.

Also, i said nothing can be anchored when the pos shields are below 50%. That might be wrong, as I've recently heard that a tower in reinforced can still anchor turret batteries.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#5 - 2012-02-21 23:40:19 UTC
The horse I rode in on is called 40-odd POS bashes, unlike the knackered nag you trot around on.
Solotta Erquilenne
#6 - 2012-02-27 14:26:09 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The horse I rode in on is called 40-odd POS bashes, unlike the knackered nag you trot around on.

confirming that shooting a tower is all it takes to be an expert.