Ships & Modules

2 flights of light drones should have been more than enough to cover your active tank (barring implants/booster which you probably had). And their entire fleet sat at 3k or less except for one person who made it to 6k as they were dying. That seems more like poor tactics. For instance at no point was that ferox more than 2k away for any noticable period of time and most of the time he was less than 1k and turning. Most of the other ships didn't do anything to gain range either. The SFI at 6k should have hit you all day long with 180s and barrage (or moreso for any other ammo) moving at full speed at that range, let alone when you were doing a whole 40m/s. Something doesn't quite add up.

So you can leave the field when a HAC shows up? Thats worth 4x times a thrasher? Any HAC that will kill a thrasher will kill an AF.

You still haven't answered the main point. Your video hasn't proved much of anything, other than you are higher skilled and have more situational awareness than the people you kill. That I didn't need video to see. You get into a fight with 4-6 hostiles that dont bother to spread out AT ALL vs small ships and that is proof? Thats poor judgement and tactics on their part. Not anything your ship did. If you have more/better video or more insight, please produce it.

A lot of you mis understand me and the point of this thread. I am not somehow opposed to AFs or hate them. There are just a number of issues that I don't see the pilot able to get around flying vs anyone competant. I want to like them, but not if they can't do anything an inty or destroyer or faction frigate can already do BETTER for half the cost or less. Im not trying to be insulting, but a lot of you are throwing blind rhetoric out without any sort of logic, numbers or facts to support them.

The difference is that in the Harpy I don't have to leave the field. I just tackle and kill it.



Obviously it was something my ship did - afterall I'm all but sitting still, and while I make an active effort to avoid the DPS from the Ferox (note try to I manually orbit him), the SFIs and Vexor Navy and Claw should have made short work of me. Even at the ranges they were at. If I'd been in a Thrasher, they would have made short work of me. If I was in a Comet they'd have made short work of me. If I was in a thorax they'd have made short work of me.

Furthermore, I wasn't kidding when I said I had hours of video.



No, you're throwing rhetoric out and I'm putting out the most incontrovertible proof that can possibly be had in this game. Its stronger than killmails, and its stronger than any EFT numbercrafting ever made.

-Liang

The Thrasher dies in a fire the first time anything looks crossways at it. It doesn't really step on any AF toes.

-Liang

Yeah that's the other problem. The OP only puts Dessies in their element with his comparison, nothing else.

He also babbles a lot that if your AF is orbiting and he's flying to reduce your transversal, it's eventually going to elongate your orbit so he gets easy pews.

So from this I'm inferring that OP thinks all AF pilots are brain-dead idiots who do literally nothing in response to their target trying to out-pilot them in this way.

Really it's sad how many holes can be poked in the OP's argument. You've also offered a heck of a lot more evidence supporting AFs than the OP has with his so called 'testing'. Yet it's him that refutes anyone that proves him wrong with the fact that he 'theory crafted' it.

Ishkur


Cool thread, btw.

It isn't a question of love per se. Undeniably, assault frigates are fun to fly. That I cannot take away from them. It is a question of "are they worth the cost for what they do" I can't say that they are. And fun to fly is relative to surviving vs dying. In the case of the signature, with a MWD on (which you need for any sort of respectable speed), your sig is larger than a SFI, regular stabber, or any normal cruiser hull (before considering things like shield mods, extenders etc...). The sig of an AF is almost the same as that of an INTY, yet without the speed. We all know what happens to an inty if that MWD comes off, it dies horribly.

Thanks for your glowing contribution. And IM being accused of trolling.

You are going to catch an Inty how? You are going to out dps an Destroyer how? You are going to kill a target with 4x your health how? A standard wolf, can overrun the rep speed of a 2x rep vengeance. Ive seen it happen.

Yes because I would present so much information in a "troll" post.

I think the problem is that the OP look at the ships as specific support in a general gang, whereas he should look at them as general support in a specific gang.

Too abstract?

The problem the AF, along with essentially every frigate and many other ships as a whole, have - is that the older perspective of "finding something to do in the greater scheme of things" is largely outdated today. That's the perspective that contained the "heavy tackler" approach. The AF-class isn't heavy tacklers, no such role exist anymore for frigates, they are hard/-hitting frigates filling a general purpose role in a size-respective gang or as standalone ships in self-sufficient roles (note: this is how they apply in very small gangs, reminiscent of pair-play). When taken out of it's element it's far too flimsy to perform a specialist role.

Let me give you a similar example: Recons are usually wonderful specialist ships in their element, and they have a fair amount of leeway in what they can adapt to (frigates, cruisers, BC; some BS and Capital situations), once you start hitting well organized BS-sizes and Capital engagements however, they quickly become flimsy and irreliable - that stems from their offense-defense relative - and their role is usually ursurped by Tech III and pirate faction BS, or the role itself is entirely replaced.

Scaling down, Recons have had a similar effect on Frigates. Good groups no longer use frigates particularily, unless they specificly bring out a frigate gang to draw on the benefits inherent in the size or class. This comes from the community evolving and the differences between groups seeing their gaps closing. Nano- and early post-Nano era roaming used to rely on isolating and removing tackle with the use group-effort covered Recons. Today, that tactic as part of a larger strategy, is well-known and utilized by everyone. Some groups may still use throw-away tackle or supplement with frigates, but it's increasingly rare to see frigate-tackle without recon-tackle above it. This evolution is one of the reasons cruiser-sized roaming is getting more rare as well, but let's not delve into that here and now (there are so many other topic where that apply).

So what does the AF do?

Well, with HAC-roaming losing ground Frigates have become another budget-alternative to BC. They are still somewhat hampered by their inability to assume all roles the old (and new-) cruiser gangs could cover (lack of frigate-sized logistics and command platforms, for example), but there are ways to adapt best-as. These gangs are likely to see profile once other frigates (such as the EAF) see improvement, but ever since the Dramiel became popular you have seen odd compositions based around them. It is in this specific environment the AF come in, and where it assumes the same general role as the HAC once did as fire-support and secondary tackle in different ways, depending on the ship.

When it comes to cost-efficiency and offensive prowess, there's few things the frigates have to offer today - but provided you aim to evade and agress, they have appeal where many Cruisers no longer do.

Losing a HAC to a Lach-Huginn supported blob is both more likely and costly. Roaming with some Covops-Ceptor scouts, EAF-support and AF-Bomber mainline together with a Dictor or two can thus be an appealing alternative to some. It's a light roaming concept with small envelope, but it assumes the defensive aspect of the older tactic better in today's environment (ie., jump camps, escape bubbles, evade secondary tackle, mitigate, isolate and kill).

Though ofc, it's a lesser alternative there among 100mn and dual-prop (roaming/thrust + sig-mitigation) tactics, or the larger ideal of cloaking. Cloaky has been the "new nano" for years, looking at development attention.

Frigates as a whole remain a size with classes highly dependent on specialized bonuses, which leave them in a suspense of difficult balance (in class, among class, between size).