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The Mittani, CSM7 Chairman: Our work is not yet done.

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The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#601 - 2012-02-19 05:15:18 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
all i see in your posts is 'a bloo bloo bloo', my computer must be screwing up again~


Ah. That's a bit disappointing.

Well, when you get the only thing that gives your life meaning back up and running, perhaps you could post a list of politicians who -admit- they're mudslingers. There are plenty of mud-slinging politicians out there, but I'm having trouble remembering any of them labeling themselves such. Can you help me out here? Right, not really. I guess most -real- politicians actually read Machiavelli and practice what they learned instead of pretending. Oops


one of the best things about winning space-elections is watching people like you howl in frustration ^_^

~hi~
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#602 - 2012-02-19 05:32:46 UTC
Of course. You're a sadist.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#603 - 2012-02-19 05:35:55 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Would you mind please going over your views of incursion going into CSM7? With the possibility of a renewed campaign to get them seriously nerfed in the future I would like to know if you are willing to go from a rather passive stance to that of defending them and content like it from those with an agenda of pushing more CTA participation without benefits. Or those who just hate highsec.


I don't really deal with Incursions much. On CSM6 the 'Incursion Session' in the December minutes was primarily spearheaded by Draco Llasa, as he had done a bunch of research and participated heavily in them firsthand. I generally stand by Draco's knowledge on this topic, so if the December minutes comments on Incursions makes you extremely angry, vOv

I'd like to see more flavors of Incursions than Sansha and more variety in sites, and they also need to stop spewing out comical amounts of risk-free isk in hisec. That's a fairly common view. Incursions are certainly superior as content goes to L4 missions, that's unquestionable. I've suggested having 'Newbie Incursions' as well to get new players to group up and fight against a common foe as a NPE experience, to snap new players out of the 'all alone' mindset.


I think that would sort of, kind of work like the final quest in the Death Knight tutorial in wow, right?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Endeavour Starfleet
#604 - 2012-02-19 05:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
The Mittani wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Would you mind please going over your views of incursion going into CSM7? With the possibility of a renewed campaign to get them seriously nerfed in the future I would like to know if you are willing to go from a rather passive stance to that of defending them and content like it from those with an agenda of pushing more CTA participation without benefits. Or those who just hate highsec.


I don't really deal with Incursions much. On CSM6 the 'Incursion Session' in the December minutes was primarily spearheaded by Draco Llasa, as he had done a bunch of research and participated heavily in them firsthand. I generally stand by Draco's knowledge on this topic, so if the December minutes comments on Incursions makes you extremely angry, vOv

I'd like to see more flavors of Incursions than Sansha and more variety in sites, and they also need to stop spewing out comical amounts of risk-free isk in hisec. That's a fairly common view. Incursions are certainly superior as content goes to L4 missions, that's unquestionable. I've suggested having 'Newbie Incursions' as well to get new players to group up and fight against a common foe as a NPE experience, to snap new players out of the 'all alone' mindset.


I agree with the idea of Noob incursions. Getting newer players into group efforts ASAP will be of benefit to the community.

If you don't mind me going further with this. Have you participated in the daily HQ fleet that is pretty regular lately? I have lately grown to seriously like this type of gameplay as it represents the best of Hisec in my opinion. There are actually players with shiny ships that can be going 100M plus in the VGs or making 150M plus pounding their sanctum systems. yet choose the 50-60M tops HQ fleets instead because they prefer the group setting. I would encourage you to use an alt or something to try in the future as they aren't very picky about ships.

I have stated that I don't like how Shiny fleets have an extreme advantage over nonshiny fleets. In VGs this is mainly due to extreme shiny webbing and point that leads to rather extreme advantages they have over just having more isk in their ships. Because a nonshiny fleet always lacks in the Web and point ability it is almost always an automatic fail for the nonshiny.

I will admit I have been too defensive on the subject. Mainly because I see people (Including some goons which confuses me due to the unique requirements to join your group) Who don't want them changed but nuked. With obvious reasoning because it competes with Nullsec living. And the CTAs. People like me have lived and participated greatly in nullsec and want to see changes that can encourage living out there (Modular POS and Corp PLEASE) Yet have grown tired of going on cookie cutter CTAs with no SRP and come back to an AFK cloaked system.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#605 - 2012-02-19 05:46:11 UTC
I think you're getting worked up over a straw man. There's no serious push to remove hisec incursions that I've encountered, only to balance the payouts of the sites and make it worthwhile to do something other than vanguards. Whoever is telling you that 'someone wants to remove hisec incursions' is getting you riled up for nothing.

~hi~
Endeavour Starfleet
#606 - 2012-02-19 05:55:23 UTC
Fair Enough.

So just a final clarification.

IF you had to choose between say giving VGs different spawns to nullify the web point shiny advantage or just cutting VG payout by 3x you would choose the first one right?

It may seem stupid and repetitive but there ARE calls out there for flat out cuts which will gut the smaller nonshiny VG fleets already suffering against the shiny fleets. There ARE calls saying that there is extreme Incursion Inflation and that is why Payout cut or removal to LP is somehow needed and while I suspect you won't kneejerk to that stance I still worry about the potential of the others.
Arctus Arrakis
Doomheim
#607 - 2012-02-19 06:12:11 UTC
Hey Mittani, you have this newbies vote. Mostly because you seem like you could handle yourself in a discussion, rather than spew nerd rage. But anyway, good look mate.



P.S. Maybe one day I can log between characters without reopening the game? :D Would appreciate it greatly.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#608 - 2012-02-19 06:22:23 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Fair Enough.

So just a final clarification.

IF you had to choose between say giving VGs different spawns to nullify the web point shiny advantage or just cutting VG payout by 3x you would choose the first one right?

It may seem stupid and repetitive but there ARE calls out there for flat out cuts which will gut the smaller nonshiny VG fleets already suffering against the shiny fleets. There ARE calls saying that there is extreme Incursion Inflation and that is why Payout cut or removal to LP is somehow needed and while I suspect you won't kneejerk to that stance I still worry about the potential of the others.


The CSM doesn't micromanage balance calls like that. The level of payouts of an anomaly or a particular Incursion site isn't something we get nitty gritty on.

As an example, the Anomaly nerfs that Greyscale put in between CSM5 and CSM6 without consulting us were a complete disaster. We pointed this out, loudly and repeatedly. We didn't say 'tweak this haven in this truesec band to have 15% more of a payout'; the feedback was more 'you ****** up bigtime, and you can see evidence of the fuckup in the following effects across null, stop being crazy.'

When in Crucible CCP clawed back from the Anomaly nerfs and buffed them, we didn't get a nitty-gritty spreadsheet listing the changes, nor would that be useful to us. The CSM is an advocacy group, not a playground for statisticians. Hopefully that makes a bit more sense. We highlight major problems and leave the micro-level balance and game design issues to the actual game designers.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#609 - 2012-02-19 06:23:47 UTC
Arctus Arrakis wrote:
Hey Mittani, you have this newbies vote. Mostly because you seem like you could handle yourself in a discussion, rather than spew nerd rage. But anyway, good look mate.



P.S. Maybe one day I can log between characters without reopening the game? :D Would appreciate it greatly.


I think everyone wants to swap characters without closing the client. I have no idea why it's not in. I'll ask in Skype, there might be some horrifically difficult coding reason or something.

Thanks for the vote.

~hi~
Endeavour Starfleet
#610 - 2012-02-19 06:28:05 UTC
I need to save my votes for others that are at risk of being defeated by flatly anti incursion candidates. However I have to say that you have handled yourself in a professional manner and are worthy of the votes others are giving to you and worthy to continue to lead the CSM into the future. You have my thanks and my respect.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#611 - 2012-02-19 06:34:31 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
As an example, the Anomaly nerfs that Greyscale put in between CSM5 and CSM6 without consulting us were a complete disaster. We pointed this out, loudly and repeatedly. We didn't say 'tweak this haven in this truesec band to have 15% more of a payout'; the feedback was more 'you ****** up bigtime, and you can see evidence of the fuckup in the following effects across null, stop being crazy.'

How do they respons to such evidence of their messups?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#612 - 2012-02-19 08:56:57 UTC
The Mittani wrote:


As CSM Chair, I offer sound guidance and guardianship of that power; I'm one of the first to truly wield it effectively. I'm here to protect the nullsec population against the existential danger of allowing an ignorant hiseccer and Greyscale to get together and talk about jump bridges. I'm here to keep the focus of the game on spaceships instead of a testbed for WoD or a venue for more pants. It's a guardianship.


Our savior... Straight

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#613 - 2012-02-19 12:56:51 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
As an example, the Anomaly nerfs that Greyscale put in between CSM5 and CSM6 without consulting us were a complete disaster. We pointed this out, loudly and repeatedly. We didn't say 'tweak this haven in this truesec band to have 15% more of a payout'; the feedback was more 'you ****** up bigtime, and you can see evidence of the fuckup in the following effects across null, stop being crazy.'

How do they respons to such evidence of their messups?


They get angry over it and take away the jump bridges.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#614 - 2012-02-19 13:07:25 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
I need to save my votes for others that are at risk of being defeated by flatly anti incursion candidates.


There are 'flatly anti-incursion candidates'?

Someone link a thread, that sounds like it would be good fun to read.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#615 - 2012-02-19 15:50:32 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
As CSM Chair, I offer sound guidance and guardianship of that power; I'm one of the first to truly wield it effectively. I'm here to protect the nullsec population against the existential danger of allowing an ignorant hiseccer and Greyscale to get together and talk about jump bridges. I'm here to keep the focus of the game on spaceships instead of a testbed for WoD or a venue for more pants. It's a guardianship.

Our savior... Straight

Protecting us daily from the dangers of ~elite pvp~ and CCP.
rodyas wrote:
They get angry over it and take away the jump bridges.

Any day now all jumpbridges will stop working....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gizmo Reaper
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#616 - 2012-02-19 17:23:01 UTC
MIttens, you suicided my hulk and my main is part of the southern block - but you still have my vote from one of my accounts because i believe you are making EVE betterer.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#617 - 2012-02-19 17:50:11 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
I think there's a lot of folks who missed my CSM6 campaign last year. I make no bones about being a complete bastard. Most people who know me in nullsec or have been on the wrong end of my alliance are entirely aware of the lengths I go to in order to win.

In CSM6 I vowed that I would put my skill at raw bastardry to use - to improve the game and make the CSM actually work; I did exactly that. I'm not a saint, an angel, or a ~nice guy~. Those kind of people don't do well in a political group where your task is to influence and persuade others, to cut deals, to think in a Machiavellian manner.

If you think an effective politician is a 'moral' person, well, I know a great guy who can act as a trusted third party if you need to transfer a supercap!


Actually, you're kinda fail as a follower of Machiavelli. To quote The Prince:

"For this reason a prince ought to take care that he never lets anything slip from his lips that is not replete with the above-named five qualities, that he may appear to him who sees and hears him altogether merciful, faithful, humane, upright, and religious."

See, Machiavelli understood that a leader had to APPEAR virtuous, despite his true nature. It's funny you should mention Machiavelli as I was just musing to myself that you must have never read him. You're not going to be elected because you're a master of Machiavelli's teachings. You'll get elected because of the structure of the election and the large voting block you control.


What you fail to comprehend is that the inteligent people have read The Prince, and are deeply distrustful of those that appear merciful, faithful, humane, upright, and religious. I find it refreshing that someone is honest about showing you the knife and telling you what he is going to do if you don't comply, verses someone that is pretending to be your friend and smiling up untill he plunges the dagger into your back because it furthers his political ambitions.

The Mittani does what he says on the tin, it is the ones that appear merciful, faithful, humane, upright and religious, you have to watch out for, because you never know what ulterior motives are lurking beneath.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#618 - 2012-02-19 18:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Falin Whalen wrote:
What you fail to comprehend is that the inteligent people have read The Prince, and are deeply distrustful of those that appear merciful, faithful, humane, upright, and religious. I find it refreshing that someone is honest about showing you the knife and telling you what he is going to do if you don't comply, verses someone that is pretending to be your friend and smiling up untill he plunges the dagger into your back because it furthers his political ambitions.

Ah game theory. Et tu EVE-O, an internet spaceship forums

Compliance is mandatory.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#619 - 2012-02-19 18:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Protecting us daily from the dangers of ~elite pvp~ and CCP.
rodyas wrote:
They get angry over it and take away the jump bridges.

Any day now all jumpbridges will stop working....


Well not all jump bridges, just some they took away. CCP hasn't developed perfect anger yet. But once they do, I imagine a total loss across the board.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#620 - 2012-02-19 18:30:31 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Well not all jump bridges, just some they took away. CCP hasn't developed perfect anger yet. But once they do, I imagine a total loss across the board.

They'll break the code some day...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?