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EVE Online: Crucible 1.2 Feedback

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IsTheOpOver
#161 - 2012-02-17 19:00:06 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:

/me slaps his wrist for not checking into this before posting.


Off to the naughty-stair with you!
Das Minion
Arvachah Mining
B.S.I.
#162 - 2012-02-17 19:57:44 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
FWIW:
http://client.eveonline.com/patches/optional/?from=341054&to=342273
Quote:
Crucible 1.2 Client Update #2

Released February 17, 2012

This update addresses issues introduced with Crucible 1.2

User Interface

The ellipses in the overview have been sent to the naughty-stair to think about what they've done
Hover-based overview sort locking will unlock when the mouse is not in the client window regardless of where it was before it left
Corporation bulletins will once again give each other enough space to be seen properly
The minimum width of overview columns has been restored to 24 pixels


Prior to this update, I had my local chat window a few pixels wide just showing the standing and first few letters of the player's name with no chat frame. I'd love to have this feature back as local chat shouldn't have so much screen real estate dedicated to it.
Avjar
1st Special Operations Command
#163 - 2012-02-17 20:08:57 UTC
I have a MAC laptop and now two of my clients won't load. This happened once before but after a patch they started working. The third client loads fine with no issues. Whats the deal?
Morar Santee
#164 - 2012-02-17 20:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Morar Santee
CCP Veritas wrote:
[...] we made one super tiny functional change which you’ll probably notice and hopefully like – the sorting of the overview will lock when you hover over it.

In fact, it is a fundamental change to the behaviour of the single most important UI element in the entire game.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to follow your rationale in game design if every second patch contains a downgrade in functionality for the end user, which is falsely advertised to your customers and cost resources to implement.

I have tried to outline a much better approach to this particular issue numerous times now, and I'll do it one more time for completeness' sake.

Simple steps to follow:

1. Break down current "Lock Target" hot-key functionality to its different effects:
  • Freeze Overview
  • Lock Target when pressed + mouseclick
  • Upstroke Functionality (selected target in Overview is locked if you release CTRL when Overview is active window)

2. Create separate key-binds for each of these elements, but allow us to put them on the same key.

3. Give us a toggle for "Freeze Overview during mouse over".


What is the difference to your approach? This is a modular UI design that improves performance for everyone, because increased adaptability leads to better results for different needs.

Currently, you are shoving changes down our throats that you call "improvement" - while in fact they decrease usability for a large number of users.
Once done, you wait 4 weeks for the complaints to die down and tell yourselves: "Successful change implemented. Players adapted to improved UI."
In reality, people just get tired of complaining because the effort required to make you step back on bad game design decisions is completely disproportionate to what one can hope to achieve. It's not that people are happy, it's not that your "improvements" worked, it's that people become more and more resigned to the point where they don't give a **** anymore, and eventually just walk away.

I'm trying to be constructive. Please take this into consideration.
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#165 - 2012-02-17 21:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeko Rena
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Inepsa1987 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Yahrr wrote:
Another nice one is the horrible new font that is used on all the input fields, and only the input fields. (screenshot for those who have trouble reading text, notice the difference between the 'Ask Price' input field and the labels like 'Regional Average')


This is a bug, I'll look into it. Might be related to your input language - if you use the language bar in Windows, what is your input language set to?


Are you going to be working on making the overviews mouse over freezing optional with a mappable toggle alternative?

I would appreciate ccp's view on how successful that element is at the moment.



I would imagine its possible, but isn't it necessary now since the overview refreshes faster? I think without it targets in the overview would move around a lot faster.


I think you should stick to thinking for yourself instead of telling other people what to think.

Make overview mouse over lock an option. Make an overview lock toggle a feature.

Make the assholes who just come here to comment on other peoples feedback go away tbh.


Haha wow your still here furiously posting in every page,

I really wish i knew how that guy was telling you what to think, he merely explained that it may be possible and then put a reason as to why it might be a good idea to not change it, and to you that is telling you what to think,

So if you say to someone, "My hamburger was way better without the cheese" and they said, "Well its possible to remove the cheese but if we do you might find the entire burger falls apart" that to you is telling you what to think,

**** son everyone in the world must be telling you what to think, all you have done in your post is exactly what you have said in your last line, the guy posted some feedback to the other dude saying that it may not be a good idea to change it, and you have simple said he is telling you what to think, and gone all anal at him

What a hypocrite,

I myself am still trying this out, its taking a little bit of time to get used to as you do kind of feel that the UI is almost locking up, in a week if i still have trouble getting used to it i may have to agree that the old system may need to come back or at the very least have it tweaked, only been back for a few days but thats a big change to get used to even after a break Lol
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2012-02-17 21:20:44 UTC
After thinking this over this is the only good final solution for the overview locking and to short cut key behaviour

- Add option to enable/disable shortcut keys applying to "preselected overview item".
-> when enabled lock the overview when mouse is over the overview window.

- Add option to enable/disable activated shortcut keys applying to "clicked overview item".
-> when enabled lock the overview when any shortcut key is held down.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#167 - 2012-02-17 21:22:37 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Make the assholes who just come here to comment on other peoples feedback go away tbh.

You first?



You post the quotes where i was commenting on others opinions of which there are non, and ill quote all ranger 1's and inepsa's posts. Thanks.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#168 - 2012-02-17 21:25:39 UTC
Zeko Rena wrote:
Haha wow your still here furiously posting in every page,

I really wish i knew how that guy was telling you what to think, he merely explained that it may be possible and then put a reason as to why it might be a good idea to not change it, and to you that is telling you what to think,

So if you say to someone, "My hamburger was way better without the cheese" and they said, "Well its possible to remove the cheese but if we do you might find the entire burger falls apart" that to you is telling you what to think,

**** son everyone in the world must be telling you what to think, all you have done in your post is exactly what you have said in your last line, the guy posted some feedback to the other dude saying that it may not be a good idea to change it, and you have simple said he is telling you what to think, and gone all anal at him

What a hypocrite,

I myself am still trying this out, its taking a little bit of time to get used to as you do kind of feel that the UI is almost locking up, in a week if i still have trouble getting used to it i may have to agree that the old system may need to come back or at the very least have it tweaked, only been back for a few days but thats a big change to get used to even after a break Lol



He was telling me that my feedback and suggestion was not necessary rather than just making his own feedback, so yeah, that was a lot of post you made with zero practical use there. Another example of someone here to troll others feedback.
Tester128
Perkone
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-02-17 23:12:51 UTC
you can't even start to imagine how utterly fail is the idea to lock overview on mouse hover. you should try to play your game a bit before making such "improvements" on gui. take this back or at lest make it optional.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#170 - 2012-02-18 01:29:50 UTC
Morar Santee wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
[...] we made one super tiny functional change which you’ll probably notice and hopefully like – the sorting of the overview will lock when you hover over it.

In fact, it is a fundamental change to the behaviour of the single most important UI element in the entire game.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to follow your rationale in game design if every second patch contains a downgrade in functionality for the end user, which is falsely advertised to your customers and cost resources to implement.

I have tried to outline a much better approach to this particular issue numerous times now, and I'll do it one more time for completeness' sake.

Simple steps to follow:

1. Break down current "Lock Target" hot-key functionality to its different effects:
  • Freeze Overview
  • Lock Target when pressed + mouseclick
  • Upstroke Functionality (selected target in Overview is locked if you release CTRL when Overview is active window)

2. Create separate key-binds for each of these elements, but allow us to put them on the same key.

3. Give us a toggle for "Freeze Overview during mouse over".


What is the difference to your approach? This is a modular UI design that improves performance for everyone, because increased adaptability leads to better results for different needs.

Currently, you are shoving changes down our throats that you call "improvement" - while in fact they decrease usability for a large number of users.
Once done, you wait 4 weeks for the complaints to die down and tell yourselves: "Successful change implemented. Players adapted to improved UI."
In reality, people just get tired of complaining because the effort required to make you step back on bad game design decisions is completely disproportionate to what one can hope to achieve. It's not that people are happy, it's not that your "improvements" worked, it's that people become more and more resigned to the point where they don't give a **** anymore, and eventually just walk away.

I'm trying to be constructive. Please take this into consideration.


This. So very much this.

Direct dev-response, please?

Ni.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#171 - 2012-02-18 01:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
Lyrrashae wrote:
Morar Santee wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
[...] we made one super tiny functional change which you’ll probably notice and hopefully like – the sorting of the overview will lock when you hover over it.

In fact, it is a fundamental change to the behaviour of the single most important UI element in the entire game.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to follow your rationale in game design if every second patch contains a downgrade in functionality for the end user, which is falsely advertised to your customers and cost resources to implement.

I have tried to outline a much better approach to this particular issue numerous times now, and I'll do it one more time for completeness' sake.

Simple steps to follow:

1. Break down current "Lock Target" hot-key functionality to its different effects:
  • Freeze Overview
  • Lock Target when pressed + mouseclick
  • Upstroke Functionality (selected target in Overview is locked if you release CTRL when Overview is active window)

2. Create separate key-binds for each of these elements, but allow us to put them on the same key.

3. Give us a toggle for "Freeze Overview during mouse over".


What is the difference to your approach? This is a modular UI design that improves performance for everyone, because increased adaptability leads to better results for different needs.

Currently, you are shoving changes down our throats that you call "improvement" - while in fact they decrease usability for a large number of users.
Once done, you wait 4 weeks for the complaints to die down and tell yourselves: "Successful change implemented. Players adapted to improved UI."
In reality, people just get tired of complaining because the effort required to make you step back on bad game design decisions is completely disproportionate to what one can hope to achieve. It's not that people are happy, it's not that your "improvements" worked, it's that people become more and more resigned to the point where they don't give a **** anymore, and eventually just walk away.

I'm trying to be constructive. Please take this into consideration.


This. So very much this.

Direct dev-response, please?

This wouldn't quite fix it, even the idea is good. Posted similar solution couple posts earlier which takes all short cut keys and those players who tend to select their stuff from overview before hitting short cut keys into account.

This quoted method above would ignore this second group of players and also those who use other short cut keys than "control" to apply commands to targets they click from OV.

We gotta remember that the update speed is greatly increased now and every time someone makes a selection from overview it has to be locked to prevent the miss clicks. The plain "ctrl"-click as lock modifier just won't cut it (to all) any more.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#172 - 2012-02-18 10:08:22 UTC
The new patch has created a few issues with the overview.

http://i.imgur.com/mWCjv.png

As you can see the velocity column is completely ****** up.
Also the three periods when a name is cut short are completely useless and only take up valuable space on the overview.
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#173 - 2012-02-18 13:12:09 UTC
Yahrr wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Yahrr wrote:
Another nice one is the horrible new font that is used on all the input fields, and only the input fields. (screenshot for those who have trouble reading text, notice the difference between the 'Ask Price' input field and the labels like 'Regional Average')


This is a bug, I'll look into it. Might be related to your input language - if you use the language bar in Windows, what is your input language set to?

The input language is set to Dutch with the US-International keyboard layout.

Same problem, as mentioned by me in the issues thread here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=817894#post817894
Same input language and keyboard layout.

The font changing occurs in virtually every input field.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#174 - 2012-02-18 14:33:48 UTC
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
Yahrr wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Yahrr wrote:
Another nice one is the horrible new font that is used on all the input fields, and only the input fields. (screenshot for those who have trouble reading text, notice the difference between the 'Ask Price' input field and the labels like 'Regional Average')


This is a bug, I'll look into it. Might be related to your input language - if you use the language bar in Windows, what is your input language set to?

The input language is set to Dutch with the US-International keyboard layout.

Same problem, as mentioned by me in the issues thread here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=817894#post817894
Same input language and keyboard layout.

The font changing occurs in virtually every input field.


We've fixed this issue internally - the fix should be out in the very near future.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
Yahrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-02-18 14:57:06 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
Yahrr wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Yahrr wrote:
Another nice one is the horrible new font that is used on all the input fields, and only the input fields. (screenshot for those who have trouble reading text, notice the difference between the 'Ask Price' input field and the labels like 'Regional Average')


This is a bug, I'll look into it. Might be related to your input language - if you use the language bar in Windows, what is your input language set to?

The input language is set to Dutch with the US-International keyboard layout.

Same problem, as mentioned by me in the issues thread here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=817894#post817894
Same input language and keyboard layout.

The font changing occurs in virtually every input field.


We've fixed this issue internally - the fix should be out in the very near future.

Awesome, thanks!
Master Akira
Licence To Kill
Mercenary Coalition
#176 - 2012-02-18 16:32:26 UTC
You know what bug you reintroduced AGAIN?

The "Video driver has stopped responding and has restarted" one. The one that happens on every jump, bridge and undock.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#177 - 2012-02-18 16:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mane Frehm
Kaivaja wrote:
Mane Frehm wrote:
Just pointing out that the unannounced and problematic change to the security status mechanism made in previous Crucible releases is still in place in this release. See the following thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70309

It's a change, but why should it be a problematic change? Use it to your advantage. Do real teamwork and aim the final blows to the pilot who needs it the most. This could actually be a huge buff if you use it with skill and determination.



Oh dear. How can this change be used to advantage in ANY WAY? Previously all pilots on the rat kill received the security status increase (just as all pilots on a PvP kill take the security hit). Now only one pilot can receive the security status increase.

And what in gods name do skill and determination have to do with anything here??? There was an unannounced mechanic change (or bug) which makes grinding security status more difficult for groups. CCP needs to either revert the rat mechanism to its previous state, or else if this "laid the final blow" concept is fundamental, then change the PvP mechanism so that only the pilot that "laid the final blow" takes the big security status hit for killing another capsuleer.
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#178 - 2012-02-18 17:34:01 UTC
Master Akira wrote:
You know what bug you reintroduced AGAIN?

The "Video driver has stopped responding and has restarted" one. The one that happens on every jump, bridge and undock.

Is this on an Intel HD graphics card? If so, we are aware of this elusive bug and are still looking for a solution. We don't have an inhouse repro of this, making it difficult to find ways to work around this.

Any details you can give might help me in tracking this down - hardware specs (including driver version), settings you've tried, what system(s) you're in, etc.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#179 - 2012-02-18 17:53:54 UTC
Locking of overview is pure win. Now I don't have to try to lock stations and celestials all the time. And holy hell, how did I even manage to select Jita 4-4 or Hek 12 before this change.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Jurietto
Anoyo Heavy Industries
#180 - 2012-02-18 18:03:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurietto
Overview freezing on mouse over is a terrible idea.
As are the new 'redboxing' animations.

Please if not remove the new changes to the overview, atleast give us the option to disable to them.
What was wrong with ctrl+clicking?