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The Mittani, CSM7 Chairman: Our work is not yet done.

First post First post
Author
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#541 - 2012-02-17 22:43:17 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I am sure he was referring to the Griffin and Kitsune specifically.

He was, but the Crucifier, Sentinel, Vigil, Hyena, Maulus and Keres could all use a looksee too.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Princess Bride
SharkNado
#542 - 2012-02-17 22:44:14 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Quote:

It may have been based on something trivial but facts is that it came from an NDA meeting, did it not? Yes or no.


What's a NDA meeting?
Yes or no, did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. That's it. That's all I want to hear. Yes or no.


Yes or no. Now that you've heard all you want to hear, perhaps you'll now answer MY question?

What's a NDA meeting?
I still haven't gotten my answer.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.


You still haven't clarified your question. When you do, I will answer.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#543 - 2012-02-17 22:46:12 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
I still haven't gotten my answer.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.


You still haven't clarified your question. When you do, I will answer.
Are the contents of the minutes in that meeting under NDA. You know this answer. The answer is yes. Back to you, Bob.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.
Boris Lachenkov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#544 - 2012-02-17 22:47:42 UTC
As you mentioned, the other types of EW frigates are pretty bad and need a rework.
Perhaps that is a push change for another expansion labelled "Warfare".

Not sure what the change would be, in all honesty. A flat change to how much the modules can stack but seriously, a new methnaught would be amazing.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#545 - 2012-02-17 22:50:04 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
I still haven't gotten my answer.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.


You still haven't clarified your question. When you do, I will answer.
Are the contents of the minutes in that meeting under NDA. You know this answer. The answer is yes. Back to you, Bob.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.


If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, the meeting was not covered under the NDA.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#546 - 2012-02-17 22:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Karadion
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
I still haven't gotten my answer.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.


You still haven't clarified your question. When you do, I will answer.
Are the contents of the minutes in that meeting under NDA. You know this answer. The answer is yes. Back to you, Bob.

Did the trivial statements come from a meeting that was under NDA. Yes or no.


If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, the meeting was not covered under the NDA.

Yes or no. You have a reading comprehension of a child. Prove me wrong.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#547 - 2012-02-17 22:52:26 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, the meeting was not covered under the NDA.

The issue is they did come from such meeting, but it wasn't super privileged info that was worth making a mess over, so CCP simply called it a non-issue. Mittens still thought it was an issue, presumably because he did not want the info shared, and keeps calling D3 a NDA-breaker.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tyrion Struan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#548 - 2012-02-17 23:00:00 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Tyrion Struan wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:


So by your own admission, Mittani's characterization of Darius III in his one-line insult/summary was based on something completely irrelevant. Also, by ignoring your lame hypothetical I'm "picking and choosing" my facts? No. I'm distinguishing facts from hypothetical garbage. That's different.


Nope. He made an assessment. He is free to do that, and better placed to do so than both of us (unless you're privy to the NDA). You are calling him out as a lier based on CCP saying that they lack proof. This does, however, not mean that there was no breach of the NDA. The worst thing you can call him out for is to not have begun his statement with "In my assessment..." Which, I think, is a rather lame outcall. Again, I don't care, I just think its fun that you holding others to standards in their arguments that you are not able to meet yourself, that is my amusement and only concern in this. So by your argument you are a lying [insert derogatory term here], because you are no able to show the truth of your statement that there has been a lie.

I have no doubt that you will now either put your head back into the sand with another statement of, "no, that is not what I said", or once more move the goalpost.


Hmm let's go over this one last time:

As other CSMs have said, and as I have repeatedly quoted them saying, and you have failed to disprove, the determination of whether a NDA is breached or not is a legal question. As such, it is either true because it has been proven at law, or it is not true, because it has not. Think "Innocent until proven guilty" here, as you seem to be having trouble (probably intentionally) understanding this point. As many in this thread have argued, it seems that unless a legal determination has been made that the NDA was breached, it has not been breached. And as there is no such determination, nor is the author of the NDA and alleged "victim" in this incident asserting that there was a breach, we can safely assume that there was no breach. Yet you rant on about the semantics of it all and attempt to invalidate my argument with something akin to "How can we know whether I am the dream of the butterfly, or the butterfly part of my dream?"

You have waxed poetic on the subjects of objective reality, the definition of the word "fact" and other theoretical nonsense in an attempt to muddy the waters and obscure The Mittani's mud-slinging. That's great, and you've done a fine job of it. Hopefully, you are being paid for the service.

Next I expect you will propose an argument on the definition of the word "of" or perhaps continue to paraphrase your undergrad philosophy text.


X - spy.

And no. You are making a rather common mistake in the application of innocent utill prove guilty. This applies in the eyes of the law, but does not mean that a thing has or has not happened. Also, it applies in criminal law, which this is not. (You've seen to many cop shows.) That something is a legal issue - like if Marzetti has promised not to pee on your leg or not and whether he has violated that promise or not - does not mean that it may not have taken place unless it has been found to be so by a court. I have never been found guilty of exeeding the speed limit, doesn't mean that I never have. The alleged victime has chosen to say that they lack proof, and apparently in in private that though it was said in a channel where all information was to be considered priviliged under the NDA, that this particular information did not. As a matter of law that is an assessment, and no more. Its not desicive either way.

Oh, and just so no one thinks that I'm claiming e-peen here, I neither hold, nor have I ever studied for, an undergrad in philosophy.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#549 - 2012-02-17 23:00:11 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, the meeting was not covered under the NDA.


Yes or no. You have a reading comprehension of a child. Prove me wrong.


Wow. Okay, to clarify for the literalists:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, NO the meeting was not covered under the NDA.

Proof:
CCP Diagoras wrote:

Ladie Harlot wrote:
Didn't get enough NDA leaking during CSM6?


We have not seen evidence of any NDA breaches. Should you have any, please feel free to contact us via the petition system.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#550 - 2012-02-17 23:15:56 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, the meeting was not covered under the NDA.


Yes or no. You have a reading comprehension of a child. Prove me wrong.


Wow. Okay, to clarify for the literalists:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, NO the meeting was not covered under the NDA.

Proof:
CCP Diagoras wrote:

Ladie Harlot wrote:
Didn't get enough NDA leaking during CSM6?


We have not seen evidence of any NDA breaches. Should you have any, please feel free to contact us via the petition system.



I think the Goons and everyone else with any kind of common sense has been arguing that the fact that CCP found what D3 leaked to not be NDA-breaking is beside the point. The concern is that D3 willfully and purposefully leaked information from a channel that was clearly defined to be protected by NDA. After the fact, CCP reiterated that the channel was protected by NDA and that nothing from that channel should be leaked.

What does that say about D3's character? He either doesn't hold a lot of regard for NDA, is some kind of billionaire in real life and doesn't afraid of any litigation, or has a distinct and disturbing lack of common sense. I don't find any of those options particularly comforting, especially in someone who could potentially be representing my interests on the CSM.

On a side point, your idea that you can half-quote something like you did with Two Step's post and still retain the entire truth and meaning of his words is ludicrous. Please just remove D3's scrotum from your mouth, it'll save everyone a lot of trouble.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Princess Bride
SharkNado
#551 - 2012-02-17 23:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Tyrion Struan wrote:


And no. You are making a rather common mistake in the application of innocent utill prove guilty. This applies in the eyes of the law, but does not mean that a thing has or has not happened. Also, it applies in criminal law, which this is not. (You've seen to many cop shows.) That something is a legal issue - like if Marzetti has promised not to pee on your leg or not and whether he has violated that promise or not - does not mean that it may not have taken place unless it has been found to be so by a court. I have never been found guilty of exeeding the speed limit, doesn't mean that I never have. The alleged victime has chosen to say that they lack proof, and apparently in in private that though it was said in a channel where all information was to be considered priviliged under the NDA, that this particular information did not. As a matter of law that is an assessment, and no more. Its not desicive either way.

Oh, and just so no one thinks that I'm claiming e-peen here, I neither hold, nor have I ever studied for, an undergrad in philosophy.


My goodness. If you cut out all of the condescending parts, you're not even left with something funny, just kinda sad.

Again, you're failing to differentiate between a determination of law, which the question of breach clearly is, and a determination of fact. I am not questioning whether someone's leg was peed upon, nor whether information from a chat was leaked. The first I'm sure is true in some context, and the second I can stipulate to. The question is whether Darius III breached his NDA with CCP. That's a legal question, and as CCP has stated they have seen no evidence of a breach, it's safe to assume there was no breach. If there was no breach, which again is a legal question, then Mittani's statement that there was a breach is mud slinging.

You seem stuck on this word "assessment". Relabeling a legal determination made by a non-party does not make it any more valid. It could be my "assessment" that my neighbor trespassed on another neighbor's property. However, when I make the statement "He trespassed", that does not make a legal truth of it. That would be a legal determination. If my neighbor is not alleging trespass, and a court has not found this to be the case, then I can "assess" this all I want. I could have witnessed one neighbor walking on another neighbor's land. But that doesn't mean there was a trespass. Perhaps there was an easement I don't know about.

Your main argument seems to be that The Mittani was not lying, only being ignorant. Either way, politically motivated ignorance is still mud slinging.

Also, when being condescending, please make a better effort to keep your writings clear of obvious errors. Trying to look down on me when you are adding extra Ls to until, Es to victim, Is to privilege, dropping the C in decisive, etc. does little to prove your condescension is valid.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#552 - 2012-02-17 23:18:01 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, the meeting was not covered under the NDA.


Yes or no. You have a reading comprehension of a child. Prove me wrong.


Wow. Okay, to clarify for the literalists:

If the statements that were "leaked" came from a meeting that was covered by the NDA between CCP and the CSM, then evidence of the leaks (which we all acknowledge exist) would have been evidence of a breach of the NDA. As CCP has clearly stated, they have seen no evidence of a breach of the NDA, therefore, NO the meeting was not covered under the NDA.

Proof:
CCP Diagoras wrote:

Ladie Harlot wrote:
Didn't get enough NDA leaking during CSM6?


We have not seen evidence of any NDA breaches. Should you have any, please feel free to contact us via the petition system.


I didn't ask for that answer. Yes or no. That's all I wanted.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#553 - 2012-02-17 23:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Vordak Kallager wrote:

I think the Goons and everyone else with any kind of common sense has been arguing that the fact that CCP found what D3 leaked to not be NDA-breaking is beside the point. The concern is that D3 willfully and purposefully leaked information from a channel that was clearly defined to be protected by NDA. After the fact, CCP reiterated that the channel was protected by NDA and that nothing from that channel should be leaked.

What does that say about D3's character? He either doesn't hold a lot of regard for NDA, is some kind of billionaire in real life and doesn't afraid of any litigation, or has a distinct and disturbing lack of common sense. I don't find any of those options particularly comforting, especially in someone who could potentially be representing my interests on the CSM.

On a side point, your idea that you can half-quote something like you did with Two Step's post and still retain the entire truth and meaning of his words is ludicrous. Please just remove D3's ******* from your mouth, it'll save everyone a lot of trouble.


I would argue that if the meeting was so clearly covered under the NDA, then Darius would not have "leaked" information from it. That answer seems far more likely than Darius being a billionaire or any of your other theories. Also, I would argue that if it was clearly covered under the NDA, then evidence of the leak would be evidence of a breach of the NDA, and CCP would not have stated that they have seen no evidence of a breach.

Then after he basically told his friend, "Hey they called you an ******* in that meeting" or whatever the "leak" was, CCP clarified that those meetings were indeed covered under the NDA...probably under one of the more sweeping clauses and not specified precisely, and life went on.

My point is that Mittani has turned this into a personal slanderous attack, implying a serious breach of trust that should preclude him from being a CSM. This is clearly false, and clearly mud-slinging.

As for my alleged "half quote", I quoted the half that addressed the point of the NDA. The part I dropped addressed the point of inactivity. I'm not arguing about inactivity, I'm arguing about the NDA breach. I quoted every bit of what was said concerning the alleged breach and dropped the irrelevant part. Talk that up all you wish, and rail about the etiquette involved until your face is blue. I'd do it the same way again. Insisting that everything in a post be dragged in, just because it was there, relevant or not, is what is ludicrous.

Also, I'm not here to save you trouble nor to save you from your obvious homophobic issues. But I'd look into that with some self-reflection if I were you.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Princess Bride
SharkNado
#554 - 2012-02-17 23:30:44 UTC
Karadion wrote:

I didn't ask for that answer. Yes or no. That's all I wanted.


Hmmmm. Get used to disappointment? If you made the rules, which you don't, I wouldn't be here participating. If a clear answer to your question isn't good enough for you because it contained more than a single word, then perhaps I'm not the one who has reading comprehension problems.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Princess Bride
SharkNado
#555 - 2012-02-18 00:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
So, that's it, we're done here? Good. It was just starting to grow wearisome.

With that I proclaim that The Mittani has engaged in mud-slinging and political slanders and will not get my vote unless he removes his unfair characterization of Darius III as a CSM who breached CCP's NDA. Not only is this untrue, but CCP has taken the trouble of pointing out that they have not even so much as seen evidence of it. All arguments to the contrary have been neatly put to bed and it's time that The Mittani come out of the shadows and admit to his slanderous back-biting dirty politics, or expect to lose the vote of all Eve players who are sick of such strategies.

If The Mittani is willing to lie about this, what else is he willing to lie to you about?

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#556 - 2012-02-18 00:07:19 UTC
Yay for The Mittani !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#557 - 2012-02-18 00:11:55 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
So, that's it, we're done here? Good. It was just starting to grow wearisome.

With that I proclaim that The Mittani has engaged in mud-slinging and political slanders and will not get my vote unless he removes his unfair characterization of Darius III as a CSM who breached CCP's NDA. Not only is this untrue, but CCP has taken the trouble of pointing out that they have not even so much as seen evidence of it. All arguments to the contrary have been neatly put to bed and it's time that The Mittani come out of the shadows and admit to his slanderous back-biting dirty politics, or expect to lose the vote of all Eve players who are sick of such strategies.

If The Mittani is willing to lie about this, what else is he willing to lie to you about?

Would you vote for me, then?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Princess Bride
SharkNado
#558 - 2012-02-18 00:21:03 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
So, that's it, we're done here? Good. It was just starting to grow wearisome.

With that I proclaim that The Mittani has engaged in mud-slinging and political slanders and will not get my vote unless he removes his unfair characterization of Darius III as a CSM who breached CCP's NDA. Not only is this untrue, but CCP has taken the trouble of pointing out that they have not even so much as seen evidence of it. All arguments to the contrary have been neatly put to bed and it's time that The Mittani come out of the shadows and admit to his slanderous back-biting dirty politics, or expect to lose the vote of all Eve players who are sick of such strategies.

If The Mittani is willing to lie about this, what else is he willing to lie to you about?

Would you vote for me, then?


To be completely honest I doubt I'll actually notice that the voting has begun and end up not casting a vote. If I do though, I'll seriously consider voting for you, based on posts of yours that have caught my attention in the past.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#559 - 2012-02-18 00:27:32 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
So, that's it, we're done here? Good. It was just starting to grow wearisome.

With that I proclaim that The Mittani has engaged in mud-slinging and political slanders and will not get my vote unless he removes his unfair characterization of Darius III as a CSM who breached CCP's NDA. Not only is this untrue, but CCP has taken the trouble of pointing out that they have not even so much as seen evidence of it. All arguments to the contrary have been neatly put to bed and it's time that The Mittani come out of the shadows and admit to his slanderous back-biting dirty politics, or expect to lose the vote of all Eve players who are sick of such strategies.

If The Mittani is willing to lie about this, what else is he willing to lie to you about?

Would you vote for me, then?


To be completely honest I doubt I'll actually notice that the voting has begun and end up not casting a vote. If I do though, I'll seriously consider voting for you, based on posts of yours that have caught my attention in the past.

If as you say you are not likely to vote at all, then I would be so bold as to propose that your opinion is of minimal significance to any of the candidates running in the election. I am further given evidence that you are in fact a Goon spy within your organisation, serving no purpose but to undermine the Pubby Proletariat by keeping The Mittani's thread bumped to the top of Page 1.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#560 - 2012-02-18 00:37:11 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
keeping The Mittani's thread bumped to the top of Page 1.

Is this op peacetime reimbuseable?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?