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Community HATES thought of FtP but their actions push CCP that way

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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#201 - 2012-02-17 16:24:55 UTC
Ascendic wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.


EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.



Technically yes but only because it's a year older than WOW which by most metrics laughs in every other MMO's face


Considering WOW has begun bleeding subs your statement is wrong.



Wow increased income even tho it lost subs.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Lexmana
#202 - 2012-02-17 16:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Cipher Jones wrote:

Wow increased income even tho it lost subs.

Your point is EVE is fail because it might be beat by one other game in history?
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#203 - 2012-02-17 17:22:24 UTC
Thanks to the OP, I agree, and wish I could say it aloud the same and eloquent way, however my english lacks skill level V.

Vincent Athena wrote:
One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.


I don't even think that Eve online would be able to handle say ten times the current daily active users.

Eve online is in bad health in many ways, and the one that will most likely drive me away is the miserable quality of so many features. Very good ideas implemented in a hurry and left as "working as intended" after some half hearted and rushed minor patches. I do really hate this attitude. Yes yes CCP mumbling "Excellence". Well if this is excellence, then I don't want to know what mediocrity would be.

I've got this feeling that the code base of Eve online looks like Bartertown of one of the Mad Max movies, so this is mainly preventing constant and high quality features.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2012-02-17 20:40:56 UTC
So uh.. you expect that alliances that have been living in the area and log in specifically to mine those good quality ores after downtime should be penalized..

Now, I'm not sure that's the answer

The answer is to make roids randomly spawning throughout the day. You mine out a roid, and it could come back in an hour, or it could come back in 24 hours. This would throw off the botting and give the people who play on the side of the earth who need to sleep during downtime a chance to mine the good ore.

And blobs? in alliance's home systems? you dont say... That's like marching up to someone's house and across their lawn in the back woods of nowhere and not expecting him to come out with a shotgun and chase you off his property. Especially because he has his pesky neighbors down the road who come over and raid his toolshed every once in a while.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#205 - 2012-02-17 22:50:12 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.


Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances?



Um, most of 0.0 is a warzone right now. Maybe not the deep south, but that might be only because we don't hear much about what's going on down there on english maguage forums. The rest if it is pretty much on fire.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2012-02-17 23:00:16 UTC
Hunng Ibruin wrote:
Community HATES thought of FtP

Not me! Big smile
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#207 - 2012-02-17 23:26:17 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Skydell wrote:
And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****.

Another reason for CCP to keep the current business model of relatively few subscribers that pay a premium fee instead of going FTP hoping to get millions of players that pay almost nothing but risk attention from the competition that want in on the cake.

A small niche product with loyal customers that pay premium is not such a bad business model.





There's a lot of gamers who play free games because they don't have the money to actually subscribe. From a business sense they're not the people you want to attract under normal circumstances (not that there is anything wrong with them but they won't be putting much financially into your business).


However, in MMOs when an MMO is failing these people become more valuable to the business as they will help bolster the numbers and hopefully help keep the remaining subscribers.



Just on that premise alone EVE would be better off with a free play option. EVE needs one thing above all else. Victims. Free play people would provide loads of those. The trouble as was already stated is in the SP aspect. While I don't stay sub'ed for SP, if I'm off to another game I will dump my subs with no hesitation, most in EVE still see SP as something of value, worth a sub even when they don't play. CCP putting EVE free play makes SP free.

I could see a WoW model working here. WoW free is really just an unlimited trial. While it could be said given enough time even a trial can make 450 mill for a plex, they are only going to get maybe 3 or 4 a year where they are sub based.

EVE would need to go freemium with trial restrictions on free accounts and even that wouldn't work because once I have a non trial skill injected, I could train it out while in free mode.

I just dont see EVE working free.
Edwin Atavuli
Edwin Atavuli's Tax Umbrella
#208 - 2012-02-20 01:33:05 UTC
Well..... I have not been playing EVE too long, coming up on 3 months.

But here's a few things id like to say....

free to play = bogus and just wont work in a game like Eve... it would worsen things like 100 fold.

EVE is complex, hardcore, with a super learning curve, and i love it for that! but.......

it's far too linear, introduction tutorial is crazy bad, and bad as in terribad suck bad.... needs to be tweaked.....

now here is where i am really gonna feel the flames lol!

if eve wants to see increase in sub numbers.......

1. Make all noobs unattackable untill 1 mil skill points, however add the stipulation that if they choose to go into anything lower than 0.5 space they are "sol" and wide open to attack.

2. redo the intro tutorials.... now im not saying dumb it down.... just do something it sucks?

3. repeat # 1

ive read endless stories, posts, ect >>> why don't more people play EVE? i was always too scared to try eve for the longest. because of the stories ive heard.... lot's of wich were true lol!
ccp has to stop the suicide gank at least in high sec space on noobs... i love pvp as much as the next but man give the new pilots room to breathe.... it is a major turn off to i bet tons of players/ people who would like to join..... and PLEX has advantages... and cant knock ccp for making money off of their property.... but i dont buy plex to be honest... i pay my monthly sub with a credit card... done.. every stinking mofo isk ive made i made the hard way...... i bet half the population cant say that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#209 - 2012-02-20 01:42:14 UTC
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
ccp has to stop the suicide gank at least in high sec space on noobs... i love pvp as much as the next but man give the new pilots room to breathe.
People don't suicide n00bs — there's no point in it: no valuable drops and insignificant points on the killboards. New pilots have room to breathe, up until they leave that protected space.

Also, define "n00b"… how are they going to determine that in a way that makes it possible (if it's even needed, which is questionable to begin with) to stop ganks of them but not of anyone else. At what point — or rather, at what activity — does someone cease to be a newbie?
Edwin Atavuli
Edwin Atavuli's Tax Umbrella
#210 - 2012-02-20 02:29:54 UTC
People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...

noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?

give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#211 - 2012-02-20 02:37:45 UTC
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...
No. Because there's no point in it. If you have to blow up a n00b, you do it in a non-harmful way through canflips and the like — they are literally too worthless to sacrifice a suicide frigate/dessie on.

…and if they aren't, they're not n00bs any more.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#212 - 2012-02-20 02:42:19 UTC
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...

noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?

give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.




And how would you do that?

So you can't attack them until 1 million sp? So people can abuse that system with alts too.



It's probably better off leaving it as it is.

Not being attackable for the first two weeks (approx) you think will make a difference, I doubt that.


And we certainly don't want safe zones like WoW does on their PvP servers, that would not be EVE like at all.
Ai Shun
#213 - 2012-02-20 03:39:24 UTC
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.


I'm not convinced. What do you gain by creating a false sense of security for them? All you are doing is delaying the time until they run into that brick wall.

I'd say it would be better to give them a tutorial mission that would introduce them to the harsh reality of a suicide gank or being destroyed. Use it to illustrate security status response times, jump clones and tie it in to the concepts introduced with The Awakening video.

Blow them up so they know what is in store for them and can adapt or quit before they commit too much of themselves to it.
LordShazbot
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2012-02-20 04:00:34 UTC
Eve will never die because it lives in all of us.
XOXO
foxnod
Perkone
Caldari State
#215 - 2012-02-20 04:04:54 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.


I'm not convinced. What do you gain by creating a false sense of security for them? All you are doing is delaying the time until they run into that brick wall.

I'd say it would be better to give them a tutorial mission that would introduce them to the harsh reality of a suicide gank or being destroyed. Use it to illustrate security status response times, jump clones and tie it in to the concepts introduced with The Awakening video.

Blow them up so they know what is in store for them and can adapt or quit before they commit too much of themselves to it.



As a part of the tutorial, have them sent into low/null sec to fight players till they die, and don't give them a ship to replace the one they just lost.
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#216 - 2012-02-20 04:06:37 UTC
foxnod wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.


I'm not convinced. What do you gain by creating a false sense of security for them? All you are doing is delaying the time until they run into that brick wall.

I'd say it would be better to give them a tutorial mission that would introduce them to the harsh reality of a suicide gank or being destroyed. Use it to illustrate security status response times, jump clones and tie it in to the concepts introduced with The Awakening video.

Blow them up so they know what is in store for them and can adapt or quit before they commit too much of themselves to it.



As a part of the tutorial, have them sent into low/null sec to fight players till they die, and don't give them a ship to replace the one they just lost.


Because that couldn't possibly turn people off of the game. Not at all.

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#217 - 2012-02-20 05:24:45 UTC
OP needs a better perspective on how EVE works, and to spend less time in General Discussion with the rest of us asshats who are by no means representative of the majority of EVE players.

I had to stop reading the replies, I was having Incarna flashbacks.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Ai Shun
#218 - 2012-02-20 05:45:55 UTC
Valentyn3 wrote:
foxnod wrote:
As a part of the tutorial, have them sent into low/null sec to fight players till they die, and don't give them a ship to replace the one they just lost.


Because that couldn't possibly turn people off of the game. Not at all.


And?

What is the reality of EVE Online, Valentyn3? The vast majority of players will get blown up at some stage. Nobody but themselves or, if they are lucky, their corporation will replace that ship.

I would rather have a new subscriber learn what the game is like in their trial period than have them learn it three months down the line; after they've been molly coddled into believing they are safe in high-sec.

The sooner they deal with the reality of EVE Online the better for them, for us as a community and for the future health of the game.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#219 - 2012-02-20 08:24:41 UTC
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...

noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?

give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.



Pro-tip: Most of the complaints about "new players" being suicide ganked are made by people flying exhumers and tengus.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Valei Khurelem
#220 - 2012-02-20 08:30:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Edwin Atavuli wrote:
People dont suicide gank noobs? lol you and the rest of us must be playing 2 different games...

noobs without any gunnery or shield skills at least lvl 2 or 3?

give them safe period to 1 million skill points..... watch them come and stay.



Pro-tip: Most of the complaints about "new players" being suicide ganked are made by people flying exhumers and tengus.


Where's your proof?

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium