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The "Things that cost less than CCP's microtransactions" game!

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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#61 - 2011-09-19 06:42:04 UTC
Zey Nadar wrote:
quickshot89 wrote:
Archy Mayaki wrote:
I always though that NEX stuff could be acquired through PLEX / in-game currency.


It can, people just dont seem to understand this concept.



People don't seem to understand that PLEXes are paid by real money.

I might be more understanding if it was possible for other people to see actually what kind of pants your avatar is wearing..


This. Everytime you buy a PLEX and use your "isk" to buy stuff from the NeX store, someone else is paying RL money for that. And by doing this you also support CCP's lies and poor treatment of players as well, which is all well and fine (your choice). But don't argue you didn't pay for it, because you are sponsoring the market and involved in the process.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#62 - 2011-09-19 07:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryss Darkdust
Misanth wrote:
Zey Nadar wrote:
quickshot89 wrote:
Archy Mayaki wrote:
I always though that NEX stuff could be acquired through PLEX / in-game currency.


It can, people just dont seem to understand this concept.



People don't seem to understand that PLEXes are paid by real money.

I might be more understanding if it was possible for other people to see actually what kind of pants your avatar is wearing..


This. Everytime you buy a PLEX and use your "isk" to buy stuff from the NeX store, someone else is paying RL money for that. And by doing this you also support CCP's lies and poor treatment of players as well, which is all well and fine (your choice). But don't argue you didn't pay for it, because you are sponsoring the market and involved in the process.


hmmm im not sure I get that to be honest. I mean I understand the link between real money and ISK via PLEX and how that converts to AUR, but strictly speaking since you are not required to do it and can make ISK to buy PLEX without paying a cent to me personally as a player who knows how to earn ISK, PLEX effectively has no real value at all. I pay a monthly fee every month and if I happen to earn enough ISK to buy a PLEX I usually don't. I use it for what it is intended, buying in game stuff like ships.

I suppose where it breaks down for me is that I don't play Eve to make money, I play Eve because I like to play Eve.. I make ISK as a side effect of doing what I want, but I'm not doing calculations like "how many hours of game time equals how much ISK which equals how much RL money". That kind of math is just silly to me and makes no sense. You play a game for the game. If you are trying to work out if you are earning enough RL money per hour to determine if the game is worth playing, you're an idiot.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#63 - 2011-09-19 07:43:36 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
hmmm im not sure I get that to be honest. I mean I understand the link between real money and ISK via PLEX and how that converts to AUR, but strictly speaking since you are not required to do it and can make ISK to buy PLEX without paying a cent to me personally as a player who knows how to earn ISK, PLEX effectively has no real value at all. I pay a monthly fee every month and if I happen to earn enough ISK to buy a PLEX I usually don't. I use it for what it is intended, buying in game stuff like ships.

I suppose where it breaks down for me is that I don't play Eve to make money, I play Eve because I like to play Eve.. I make ISK as a side effect of doing what I want, but I'm not doing calculations like "how many hours of game time equals how much ISK which equals how much RL money". That kind of math is just silly to me and makes no sense. You play a game for the game. If you are trying to work out if you are earning enough RL money per hour to determine if the game is worth playing, you're an idiot.


PLEX does not magically appear ingame, nor is created by industrialists or some other manufacturing. It spawns from RL isk, one way or another.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Jita Alt666
#64 - 2011-09-19 07:59:32 UTC
Akita T wrote:

So, you mean, you want to hire me to sort rice grains by size for 2 bil ISK/hour ? I'd gladly take that deal if that would be allowed by the EULA. Barring that, ok, I'll do that for, oh, say, 60$/hour (pretty hefty discount right there). Do we have a deal ? You still want to hire me to sort your rice grains ? No ? Why not ?


2 bil an hour. What am I doing wrong I struggle to get over 1.0bil an hour before I get depressed by micromanagement
Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2011-09-19 09:05:21 UTC
CCP Zulu wrote:
A sock puppet!


Is that your way of saying that you think nex store items are cheap? Question
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#66 - 2011-09-19 09:08:29 UTC
Trolls Troll wrote:
CCP Zulu wrote:
A sock puppet!


Is that your way of saying that you think nex store items are cheap? Question


Icelandic money has no value anymore, it's fish trading that matters.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#67 - 2011-09-19 09:25:24 UTC
Misanth wrote:
This. Everytime you buy a PLEX and use your "isk" to buy stuff from the NeX store, someone else is paying RL money for that.


The key for me is that someone else is paying the RL money.

Misanth wrote:
… But don't argue you didn't pay for it, because you are sponsoring the market and involved in the process.


But you just told me someone else is paying for it!

If I'm particularly good at making ISK from the style of game I play in EVE, why shouldn't I use that ISK to get someone else to pay my subscription for me? And if I happen to have a lot of surplus ISK hanging around, why shouldn't I use that ISK to get someone else to pay the real dollars required to allow me to wear fancy jeans, boots or eyewear?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Kunming
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2011-09-19 09:34:41 UTC
"Television is free since advertisement agencies are paying." Same flawed arugement as "PLEX is free since I buy it with ISK".
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2011-09-19 09:38:32 UTC
Kunming wrote:
"Television is free since advertisement agencies are paying." Same flawed arugement as "PLEX is free since I buy it with ISK".


"Someone else is paying" is what free means when it comes to manufactured goods and services.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2011-09-19 09:46:19 UTC
quickshot89 wrote:
Archy Mayaki wrote:
I always though that NEX stuff could be acquired through PLEX / in-game currency.


It can, people just dont seem to understand this concept.



They been using real money to buy GTCs for so long they've forgotten
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2011-09-19 09:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo-Moor
Mara Rinn wrote:
Misanth wrote:
This. Everytime you buy a PLEX and use your "isk" to buy stuff from the NeX store, someone else is paying RL money for that.


The key for me is that someone else is paying the RL money.

Misanth wrote:
… But don't argue you didn't pay for it, because you are sponsoring the market and involved in the process.


But you just told me someone else is paying for it!

If I'm particularly good at making ISK from the style of game I play in EVE, why shouldn't I use that ISK to get someone else to pay my subscription for me? And if I happen to have a lot of surplus ISK hanging around, why shouldn't I use that ISK to get someone else to pay the real dollars required to allow me to wear fancy jeans, boots or eyewear?


They fail to see that isk places vaulted on EVERYTHING in game. but they'll go to Character Bazaar and pump $300, $400 and more into some pixels some else was paying for.. LOL.. There is no difference.. Only the Value of the item in game can affect what people are willing to pay.. and they don't seem so disinclined to buy those Nex items and then turn around to sale them at inflated isk prices..

Something a Vet has the funds, patience, and incentive to do.. I mean how stupid do you take players for.. Even new ones. It's not hard to see. If you taken the time to do that, you're just as bad as someone who's wears Nex..

A bunch of half-commited sellouts.. lol
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-09-19 10:50:57 UTC
Trolls Troll wrote:
CCP Zulu wrote:
A sock puppet!


Is that your way of saying that you think nex store items are cheap? Question
Lol chill out. This is all just in good fun by taking a poke at the NEX. Dumb discussions over "the monetary value of isk" completely miss the point.



Also, 30 minutes on an adult chat phone line.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2011-09-19 11:07:16 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
Trolls Troll wrote:
CCP Zulu wrote:
A sock puppet!


Is that your way of saying that you think nex store items are cheap? Question
Lol chill out. This is all just in good fun by taking a poke at the NEX. Dumb discussions over "the monetary value of isk" completely miss the point.



Also, 30 minutes on an adult chat phone line.


4 separate subscriptions to EVE
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#74 - 2011-09-19 12:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Sir Substance wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
I'd like to hire you, at the amount per hour you clearly value your time at, to sort my rice grains by size.

So, you mean, you want to hire me to sort rice grains by size for 2 bil ISK/hour ? I'd gladly take that deal if that would be allowed by the EULA. Barring that, ok, I'll do that for, oh, say, 60$/hour (pretty hefty discount right there). Do we have a deal ? You still want to hire me to sort your rice grains ? No ? Why not ?

If your time is valued at 2bil an hour, how can macrotransactions possibly be free?
The purchase of MT items via plex represents a trading of time from your life rather then out of game money (in the smaller picture, someone else has already explained how you are wrong about the bigger picture).
Hence, if MT costs you zero, then your time is worthless.

That's not how that particular math works Lol
The value of things is not the same in both directions, and some directions are best avoided at all, and it's most likely not a set of linear functions either.

There's three separate relevant valuations: one is cash->ISK, the other is time->ISK, and from the RL side, also time->cash.
Due to the EULA, you can not have ISK->cash (not without a ban), and alongside the other two (ISK->time and cash->time) only make sense from an opportunity cost viewpoint (as long as you "keep it legit").

What I was saying is that for me, time->ISK yields a very high ISK/hour number, while time->cash (as in, RL job) yields a much more moderate amount compared to a lot of the player base, due to my geographical location ; cash->ISK is something I would not bother using but is at least somewhat universal across the game (barring that USD/EUR debacle most can sidestep anyway by ordering from an USA site).
Of course, this does not scale very well in either direction, but for very different reasons which are not worth going into detail about for now.

What you need to take out of this is that "cash->ISK" might be highly variable in time but only slightly variable from person to person, while the other two ("time->ISK" and "time->cash", independently) are HIGHLY variable from person to person and still also variable in time.

In other words, again, FOR ME, there is a STRONG discrepancy in the "cash value of time" when taking reality on one hand (moderate) and the one derived from the "savings" value of ISK (very high).
For me, ISK has very little value, but cash and RL time has a relatively high value.
And because I WILL NOT exchange ISK for cash (EULA), and NEED NOT exchange time for ISK ("sunk cost"), the perceived//relevant cost of MT is negligible, while time still being valued very high.



If you earn very little ISK per time spent playing (less than the cash->PLEX->ISK route equivalent at your RL hourly rate), yes, you do need to use that cash route when you value the "cost of MT" for you. And this is where most of EVE players stand.
But if you actually SAVE time/money by making ISK ingame instead of buying it with cash obtained spending time on your job, then you need to use THAT route when valuing the "cost of MT". This is where a few EVE players stand (me included).

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2011-09-20 10:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo-Moor
If someone does a DED gets faction BPC valued @ 850mil isk. The site if done right is done in just around an hour..

Translate sale of BPC (not even considering bounties). Said person could use that is to buy 2-3* PLEXs after its all said and done..

Plexes are valued @ $17.51 or something like that. $17.51 * 3 = $52.53. That's bank for an hourly wage..
Save on gas for the drive to work and lunches at home. You're in the game. Literally...

Of course this situation isn't really plausible. Since there is no RL value to isk (Keep convincing yourselves of that) and that even the thought of this is blasphemy.

Should we go ahead and really put a "value" on all that stuff sitting in your hanger.. Nah, that's just nuts.. But interesting to really consider it. When taking that PLEX into account for that $17.51
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-09-20 11:52:15 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:

Filling up my gas tank.


You obviously don't live in Britain Sad


same goes for ireland Cry

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
London
Center for Advanced Studies
#77 - 2011-09-20 12:08:00 UTC
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
A night with a lady of ill repute!


lol, the way you worded that made my morning...
J Kunjeh
#78 - 2011-09-20 12:18:28 UTC
I see that pointless "NEX is sooooo spensive!" threads keep popping up endlessly...like rabbits in springtime when the bunnies are screwing like, well, bunnies.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#79 - 2011-09-20 14:18:31 UTC
im going to halloween horror nights at universal studios in a few weeks. my ticket costs less then a monacle.
Arnst Atram
Downgraded Avengers
Hard Knocks Citizens
#80 - 2011-09-20 14:31:20 UTC
Quote:
Mailing a package to Australia from the United States.


This is in fact untrue. As an Aussie, i regretfully inform you my last purchase from Amazon was worth $44, and cost $56 to get shipped. It was a book, a DVD, and an Ethernet cable ($12 inc. Shipping to import, $50 locally, ugh i hate being regionalSad).

Though that's nothing compared to the parts i imported for my computer. $246 shipping in total for that.