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CSM7 - want to be MAC OS users voice in CSM

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mrkaczor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-02-13 14:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: mrkaczor
Hello,

As we all know MAC OS (and Linux) has the same problems with lack of testing (Linux with wine and MAC with crossover support). I want to get to CSM and focus on technical issues that both communities have - especially with your input!

Thanks :)

PS. Post to like if you agree in JSC: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69467&find=unread
Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#2 - 2012-02-13 23:57:21 UTC
We already have one on CSM6

It won't matter, until Mac OSX share is MUCH higher and it HURTS their pocket book, the OSX client will suck donkey ****
mrkaczor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-02-14 17:00:14 UTC
I have simmilar problems with Linux - did some1 tried wine for OSX? I would like to know more about MAC OS client :)
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#4 - 2012-02-14 18:51:52 UTC
mrkaczor wrote:
Hello,

As we all know MAC OS (and Linux) has the same problems with lack of testing (Linux with wine and MAC with crossover support). I want to get to CSM and focus on technical issues that both communities have - especially with your input!

Thanks :)

PS. Post to like if you agree in JSC: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69467&find=unread



To be fair, the CSM did bring up the Mac client performance in a summit meeting. I think it was two summits ago (the one after the emergency summit). I don't have time to check the notes, but if I remember correctly it went something like this. The CSM brought up the horrible Mac performance, CCP then basically said that since it involves wine..ect, that yea it sucks and there is nothing they can/will do about it so just accept it sucks, and the CSM all nodded and said O.K. and that was that.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#5 - 2012-02-14 23:10:57 UTC
That does not seem like a reason to give up. We should continue to pound on CCP for better performance.

No surrender.

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Ntrails
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-02-15 00:29:18 UTC
every Nietzsche needs a representative!
Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#7 - 2012-02-15 01:35:58 UTC
I cancelled 9 of my 10 accounts, and as soon as my training for my Titan holder finishes i will inactivate the last account

On the off chance the mac client stops sucking, I can come back easier with this training complete

Vote with your wallets, that is the only thing the schmucks at CCP listen too.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-02-15 20:39:52 UTC
mrkaczor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-02-16 07:12:40 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
That does not seem like a reason to give up. We should continue to pound on CCP for better performance.

No surrender.


Yea, thats right!! :)

My opinion is that CCP is using bad model for creating MAC/Lin client. They should give up cooperation with 3rd parities and start to cooperate with wine community. Bug submitting and fixing and later maybe some install script would involve very little afford and would bring nice results (my opinion) also good PR ;)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#10 - 2012-02-16 08:42:33 UTC
If you want someone who actually plays the game using a Mac to be on CSM7, support and vote for Trebor Daehdoow.

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Ian Grimshaw
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-02-16 10:06:52 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
If you want someone who actually plays the game using a Mac to be on CSM7, support and vote for Trebor Daehdoow.

AFAIU he was on CSM6. Did he made anything for Mac players? He doesn't have a sole word about Mac players in that post you're referring to. What's the point in voting for him?
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-02-16 13:48:40 UTC
Ian Grimshaw wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
If you want someone who actually plays the game using a Mac to be on CSM7, support and vote for Trebor Daehdoow.

AFAIU he was on CSM6. Did he made anything for Mac players? He doesn't have a sole word about Mac players in that post you're referring to. What's the point in voting for him?

I play on a Mac, I'm always pushing for more love for the Mac client behind-the-scenes, and I've also consistently pushed for improvements to the bug-reporting system (which is a disaster in general, and a nightmare for Mac-related bugs).

I've been a Mac-user and programmer since *before* the Mac was released -- I beta-tested the Mac 128k -- and found the first major bug in the ROM.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Ian Grimshaw
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-16 15:11:56 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Ian Grimshaw wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
If you want someone who actually plays the game using a Mac to be on CSM7, support and vote for Trebor Daehdoow.

AFAIU he was on CSM6. Did he made anything for Mac players? He doesn't have a sole word about Mac players in that post you're referring to. What's the point in voting for him?

I play on a Mac, I'm always pushing for more love for the Mac client behind-the-scenes, and I've also consistently pushed for improvements to the bug-reporting system (which is a disaster in general, and a nightmare for Mac-related bugs).

I've been a Mac-user and programmer since *before* the Mac was released -- I beta-tested the Mac 128k -- and found the first major bug in the ROM.

So after releasing Crucible Mac client became worse (constant freezes, lost avatars, broken patches). And that's after you were elected for previous CSM. How does this prove that you were "pushing for more love for the Mac client"? Is there any documented incentives which prove that you personally made Mac client better (even if so far Mac client became worse)?
mrkaczor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-02-16 15:27:30 UTC
I would like to get elected because of of support of MAC and Linux users and focus on the technical issues that have (not only but it will be the most important stuff for me).
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-02-16 17:59:09 UTC
Ian Grimshaw wrote:
So after releasing Crucible Mac client became worse (constant freezes, lost avatars, broken patches). And that's after you were elected for previous CSM. How does this prove that you were "pushing for more love for the Mac client"? Is there any documented incentives which prove that you personally made Mac client better (even if so far Mac client became worse)?

Bluntly, the Mac client is not a high-priority item for CCP, and there's a lot more that can go wrong with it because of the extra emulation layer.

I was in fact pointing out some annoying Mac client issues to CCP just this morning. Like the fact that typing quickly while composing an evemail can switch your focus to the chat window (which itself has annoying pauses).

But the real core issue is that the EVE bug reporting system is broken, and that's where I've put in a lot of work. CCP can't fix bugs if they don't know about them, and the EVE bug reporting system is an exercise in futility and masochism. For Mac bugs, it's even worse.

My favorite UI bug, for example, was repeatedly filtered as non-reproducible despite the fact that at one point I included a video showing the bug! I finally demoed it live during a summit session just to point out the problems with the bug reporting system.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Temba Ronin
#16 - 2012-02-17 01:58:50 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Ian Grimshaw wrote:
So after releasing Crucible Mac client became worse (constant freezes, lost avatars, broken patches). And that's after you were elected for previous CSM. How does this prove that you were "pushing for more love for the Mac client"? Is there any documented incentives which prove that you personally made Mac client better (even if so far Mac client became worse)?

Bluntly, the Mac client is not a high-priority item for CCP, and there's a lot more that can go wrong with it because of the extra emulation layer.

I was in fact pointing out some annoying Mac client issues to CCP just this morning. Like the fact that typing quickly while composing an evemail can switch your focus to the chat window (which itself has annoying pauses).

But the real core issue is that the EVE bug reporting system is broken, and that's where I've put in a lot of work. CCP can't fix bugs if they don't know about them, and the EVE bug reporting system is an exercise in futility and masochism. For Mac bugs, it's even worse.

My favorite UI bug, for example, was repeatedly filtered as non-reproducible despite the fact that at one point I included a video showing the bug! I finally demoed it live during a summit session just to point out the problems with the bug reporting system.

So CCP does not prioritize bug repairs for Mac client users according to a Mac using CSM6 member. Could you please request a one time buyout of Mac client users from CCP? If they refund the money i've invested in their game i'll write off the time spent as lessons learned, when a company advertises it's product/ game is playable on multiple systems saying they don't prioritize addressing HUGE problems on some systems is unacceptible. This is a harbinger of things to come for Dust I hope Sony is paying attention to their partner CCP.

I will not vote for you because failure to get the job done for Mac users is no reason to get my votes, yes votes i have several paid accounts like most players. Unlike most players none of mine are stable and playable today.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
mrkaczor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-02-17 12:26:43 UTC
You have the point! I started playing EVE Online BECAUSE it had Linux support ... and then they dropped (I agree - it was ****** and all ppl played on WIne)
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-02-17 13:31:49 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
I will not vote for you because failure to get the job done for Mac users is no reason to get my votes, yes votes i have several paid accounts like most players. Unlike most players none of mine are stable and playable today.

Sorry to hear that, but the blunt fact of the matter is that getting CCP to do things is a long-term exercise involving multiple rounds of bashing your head into a brick wall.

Fortunately, I have a thick head, so I'll keep at it as long as the voters let me.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Ian Grimshaw
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-17 14:15:27 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
I will not vote for you because failure to get the job done for Mac users is no reason to get my votes, yes votes i have several paid accounts like most players. Unlike most players none of mine are stable and playable today.

Sorry to hear that, but the blunt fact of the matter is that getting CCP to do things is a long-term exercise involving multiple rounds of bashing your head into a brick wall.

Fortunately, I have a thick head, so I'll keep at it as long as the voters let me.

You'd rather wrote at least a word about Mac users in your "please re-elect me" post you've linked before. Also, you would look better, if you wrote there that you're aiming to bring to CPP the fact that users are leaving the game because of CPP lying about "supporting" Mac platform. Do something before you're re-elected, otherwise it looks like you don't have enough votes and browse different forums begging for spare votes and making false promises.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-17 17:03:08 UTC
Could I trouble you to move the trolling to my re-election thread? The bumps will be most welcome! Twisted

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
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