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Community HATES thought of FtP but their actions push CCP that way

First post
Author
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#181 - 2012-02-17 06:06:06 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.


EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.



Technically yes but only because it's a year older than WOW which by most metrics laughs in every other MMO's face


Considering WOW has begun bleeding subs your statement is wrong.

Gorefacer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#182 - 2012-02-17 06:18:58 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:

The only reason that people talk so much **** on the forums is because they know they can get away with it, it's the same thing elsewhere too, the majority of people wouldn't say half these things if they could be punched in the face for it. You aren't 'hardcore' or 'tough' for running around ganking solo players and industrialists, you're just an ******* who's too afraid to pick a fair fight.


I live in Santa Barbara CA and will be at The Brewhouse tomorrow at 5:30pm. And I'll tell you exactly the same things there. :)

-Liang


Nice. That's an awesome area. I grew up in Ojai and went to SBCC for awhile. Politics and cost of living drove me out of the state though to Phoenix which is not bad either.

While it's true there are plenty of internet tough guys, I don't think anyone means it in that way when talking about EVE. It's tough as in others can and will blow up your virtual stuff or take it. I'd have no problems with internet morons getting punched, but trying to call them out is pointless even if you can handle yourself offline. However if someone talks ****, shows up at your house, and you beat them good, take pictures or video for me to laugh at. If you really want to show everyone what a badass you are I'd say stop whining about people being mean over the internet might be a good start.

Also I play rarely but pay for my 2 accounts gladly and will continue to do so as long as EVE keeps doing what they've been doing. FTP and I'd be disappointed and leave.
Valei Khurelem
#183 - 2012-02-17 07:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
I really wish they'd put FPS boarding combat in EVE, nothing would say "**** you and your Tech 2 battleship" more than a well placed shotgun to the face and being able to steal it after would only sweeten the deal.

Only if you have to travel to the ship in a pod. Heh.

That said rifters boarding Titans would be the best thing ever. With 100 newbies, surely one can pod that titan pilot in his supercap.
Mara Rinn wrote:
edit; Wow! Just saw my first suicide bank in hisec!

edit: no, belay that, it looks like it was just someone ganking a war target. =(


See? You're starting it again!

"I don't want to take a loss because someone is more skilled than me! NERF IT!" >_< people like you are why games like this always suck because you're too afraid to lose so you want to nerf everything that takes skill. CCP need to boot out CSM on their arses and tell them to go **** themselves.

. Combat only revolving around blobs and ganking with superior numbers? - check

. Statistics over player interaction? - check

. 'Hard' ( repetitive and boring ) work over fun? - check

. Constantly artificially inflating prices and not giving any room for deflation so it takes forever for noobs to get something they want? - check

All these things are designed to benefit vets who seem to largely be made up of nothing more than gankers who want easy kills and are too afraid of a fair fight, oh how I wish I could just aim my turrets at a cockpit after maneuvering through your laser spam and blast through the cockpit at you.

If I ever get to make a games company and someone talks about RPG elements in a multiplayer game I'd fire them seriously.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#184 - 2012-02-17 07:47:03 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

. Combat only revolving around blobs and ganking with superior numbers? - check


Only if you are a dummy, orbiting blob corps.
Plenty of small roams and in those you never know if your 10 men will clash vs 3 or vs 30 opponents.


Valei Khurelem wrote:

. Statistics over player interaction? - check


Plenty of other MMOs where interaction did not make them any more fun nor prevented them from failing.


Valei Khurelem wrote:

. 'Hard' ( repetitive and boring ) work over fun? - check


Only if you are a dummy and being used by smarter players.
I think ATM I have 20B in wallet, don't even need to log in to earn more.


Valei Khurelem wrote:

. Constantly artificially inflating prices and not giving any room for deflation so it takes forever for noobs to get something they want? - check


Who is artificially inflating prices are carebears exploiting a weak mechanic. Some of them are "noobs" themselves (1 - 1.5 year old chars).


Valei Khurelem wrote:

All these things are designed to benefit vets who seem to largely be made up of nothing more than gankers who want easy kills and are too afraid of a fair fight


They benefit whoever is clever enough to use them at his benefit. Character age does not matter, brain does.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#185 - 2012-02-17 08:43:18 UTC
Katalci wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience those of us who give no mercy and expect none in return. There are literally hundreds of other MMO's out there that don't tolerate certain "behaviors". Go play one of those if you dislike EVE.

This. The entire point of EVE is the freedom. If you remove the freedom to grief, steal, cheat, scam, gank, etc. then you wreck what makes EVE different from every other MMO, and it will die.


That's true, whether we like it or not.

I've said it before, go to test server where all the player driven griefer barriers aren't there. You have 3-5 years of SP training, a very low end game system with a graduate content system that reflects the 3-5 years it will take you to reach "end game". Grind up standings, do lev. 1, 2, 3 and 4 missions, move to low, do 5, move to null build stuff, move to a WH and clobber sleepers in a carrier.

The point is if EVE were judged purely on its PvE content it would be one of the most sucktastic games out there. As varied as it is its the same thing over and over, over 5 years of SP only made hard by griefers.

And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****.
Brunmunde Hildegaard
The Green Machine
That Escalated Quickly.
#186 - 2012-02-17 09:51:29 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

. Combat only revolving around blobs and ganking with superior numbers? - check

No. Just.. no.
Valei Khurelem wrote:

. Statistics over player interaction? - check

Haha. No.
Valei Khurelem wrote:

. 'Hard' ( repetitive and boring ) work over fun? - check

Maybe. You could just try something new every day when you get bored.
Valei Khurelem wrote:

. Constantly artificially inflating prices and not giving any room for deflation so it takes forever for noobs to get something they want? - check

Welcome to cutthroat capitalism, the model from the real world used to make the Eve one.
Also: a 2 week old character can make 15-20 mill a day, easy.. if he's not a tard.
Valei Khurelem wrote:

All these things are designed to benefit vets who seem to largely be made up of nothing more than gankers who want easy kills and are too afraid of a fair fight, oh how I wish I could just aim my turrets at a cockpit after maneuvering through your laser spam and blast through the cockpit at you.

It's a pvp game and you expect people, especially vets, to not fight dirty? notsureiftroll.jpg

--TL;DR--
WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

BOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO

"Sings me a dances of wolfs, who smells fear and slays the coward. Sings me a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother."

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#187 - 2012-02-17 09:52:01 UTC
EVE is exactly as free-to-play as it needs to be already. IMO the PLEX system is simply the best resolution to the problem of how to allow "free" players and "subbed" players to co-exist. I rather suspect that the only reasons that the system hasn't become widespread are

(1) It's not as ruthlessly exploitative as most "free" game models (looking at you, Allods)

(2) It requires a functioning game economy, which few MMOs have.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Lexmana
#188 - 2012-02-17 10:07:11 UTC
Skydell wrote:
And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****.

Another reason for CCP to keep the current business model of relatively few subscribers that pay a premium fee instead of going FTP hoping to get millions of players that pay almost nothing but risk attention from the competition that want in on the cake.

A small niche product with loyal customers that pay premium is not such a bad business model.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#189 - 2012-02-17 10:24:21 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Skydell wrote:
And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****.

Another reason for CCP to keep the current business model of relatively few subscribers that pay a premium fee instead of going FTP hoping to get millions of players that pay almost nothing but risk attention from the competition that want in on the cake.

A small niche product with loyal customers that pay premium is not such a bad business model.





There's a lot of gamers who play free games because they don't have the money to actually subscribe. From a business sense they're not the people you want to attract under normal circumstances (not that there is anything wrong with them but they won't be putting much financially into your business).


However, in MMOs when an MMO is failing these people become more valuable to the business as they will help bolster the numbers and hopefully help keep the remaining subscribers.

Lexmana
#190 - 2012-02-17 10:51:18 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Skydell wrote:
And as someone else pointed out, if another space sim comes out that doesn't put you in a gold fish bowl like STO tried, EVE is in serious ****.

Another reason for CCP to keep the current business model of relatively few subscribers that pay a premium fee instead of going FTP hoping to get millions of players that pay almost nothing but risk attention from the competition that want in on the cake.

A small niche product with loyal customers that pay premium is not such a bad business model.





There's a lot of gamers who play free games because they don't have the money to actually subscribe. From a business sense they're not the people you want to attract under normal circumstances (not that there is anything wrong with them but they won't be putting much financially into your business).


However, in MMOs when an MMO is failing these people become more valuable to the business as they will help bolster the numbers and hopefully help keep the remaining subscribers.



True. It might keep a failing MMO in business a few more months. But there are also games designed as FPT from the start with a business model that needs millions of players to make a profit near that of EVE. Some of them are also very successful.

Fortunately, EVE is neither of the above no matter how much some people wants it to be.
Valei Khurelem
#191 - 2012-02-17 11:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Quote:

--TL;DR--
WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

BOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO


Please continue making pathetic posts like this so your argument becomes more and more meaningless each time. I particularly enjoy it when people like you quote entire walls of texts and then write one line below it all in order to cover up how little you have to say on the subject.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#192 - 2012-02-17 11:20:36 UTC
There is too many people that just dont get EVE

To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.

"If you cannot stand the heat, then get out the kitchen". Should be a CCP policy


While i am here, I personally would like to thank CCP for giving me a game that I am truely enjoying to the max. Be it mining, missioning, WH's , roaming, hell even camping is doing it for me. ATM what ever i am doing, I have yet to find something that I dont like


CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#193 - 2012-02-17 12:01:23 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Valei Khurelem
#194 - 2012-02-17 12:04:25 UTC

Quote:
To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.


Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances?

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Lexmana
#195 - 2012-02-17 12:16:23 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.


Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances?

What makes you think it is not a warzone? Why don't you to there and farm your own profit ... Ohh yeah you did (kind of).
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#196 - 2012-02-17 12:57:00 UTC
Damn, I am a bit late on this fine thread. The topic always scared me away. Gives me a shiver whenever I read it.


OP, I totally agree with you on the analysis or the EVE community ... now GTFO! Twisted


Some things to consider:
- The community has been like this for 8 years now, how does that fit to your assumption of decreasing playerbase?
- The player count has risen until a complete f***up by CCP's PR and management occurred.
- What drove a lot of player's away last year, are the new business model approaches by CCP, not the occasional failure of new players and the following forum tears. We can sustain those losses. *
- What keeps new players coming (or returning) now are the changes that CCP made after finally listening to the community and relocating development to core EVE features and away from the virtual stuff market that was introduced only to squeeze more money out of us.

* I do agree though, that we could be more helpful and nice to new players sometimes. And there are actually places were new player's are welcome and greeted with open arms (EVE University, New Player's forum etc).

Valei Khurelem
#197 - 2012-02-17 14:13:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Lexmana wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
To me EVE Communtity is already self regulating, in the fact we get rid of the weak and whiney. This keeps the game WE love as it should be played.


Please explain to me then why 0.0 space in EVE Online isn't a warzone right now and there are entire regions of space being farmed for profit by huge alliances?

What makes you think it is not a warzone? Why don't you to there and farm your own profit ... Ohh yeah you did (kind of).


Yes, it also amazed me how many blatant bots are just sitting there, I was thinking about staying silent on this, but honestly, looking at the way local reacts to a real player going in is ridiculous, not only that I found that all the rare ore got mined out in seconds. So even though I could run missions there was no way I could manufacture my own gear, how about admitting I'm right for once? Instead of claiming I'm incompetent even though I've only lost a couple of ships my entire time subscribed?

There are entire alliances out there folks who are using bot accounts to mine and farm in their space, they claim they do it because they have no choice since the other alliances do the same, so I say we legalise it and level the playing field so it stops being profitable to bot.

CCP are going to have to fix this game soon and make changes long term PvPers in particular won't like, but in the end it's going to be worth it because we'll all have a fun game rather than just a select few who are brave enough to cheat in the game.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2012-02-17 15:48:00 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
To expand, the only time since it went live in 2003 where subscriptions dipped was when MT was introduced. While I am not against MT, or even against a FTP format, it does go to show that the "general attitude" in game is not the reason why it experienced that small dip.

Your premise is based on the fallacy that EVE is decreasing in player base, and that the reason players leave is because people are cut throat in this game... neither of which is fact.

The surest way for EVE to self destruct would be to change the rules to enforce "civilized behavior".



Selling extra accounts to existing customers is a tad different than attracting new players.

The distinction is simple: Many have 1, the loss of 1 player is 1 account. When fewer have many, the loss of 1 player is many accounts.

CCP did an exceptional job selling multiple accounts to its existing users. This has already hit the "market saturation" point. The quantity of accounts per player has soared but players? Nope. That has actually dropped a bit recently.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#199 - 2012-02-17 16:01:41 UTC
Mocam wrote:
CCP did an exceptional job selling multiple accounts to its existing users. This has already hit the "market saturation" point. The quantity of accounts per player has soared but players? Nope. That has actually dropped a bit recently.

…and you have data to support this, I presume?
Lexmana
#200 - 2012-02-17 16:02:53 UTC
Mocam wrote:
CCP did an exceptional job selling multiple accounts to its existing users. This has already hit the "market saturation" point. The quantity of accounts per player has soared but players? Nope. That has actually dropped a bit recently.

Source?
Or are we just making things up as we go...