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, instead of . to seperate isk from cent. **** YEAH!

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#61 - 2012-01-27 14:42:58 UTC
Jorn Isu wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
On a side note, when i learned to write decimals, I was teached to use this: '

So I would write 1.050'45.

Then i just began writing wth a keyboard and moved the comma below.

Oh, and I always have felt very weird how anglo-saxons deem the month to be all that relevant. "Which day is now"? "January..." "HUH?" "...twenty-sixth".

Kinda lame and grammatically nonsensical:

"On January, on the twenty-sixth day, of year 2012, strange things happened..."

vs

"On the twenty-sixth day of January of year 2012, strange things happened..."

Romans 1*, anglo-saxons 0.


*Yes, i am aware that Romans had a bloody complicated calendar, but it moved from the smaller unit to the larger one in the same elegant progression as all civilized nations do today: "on the 3rd idus of march, et cetera"
Not defending it (I think MM/DD/YY is a stupid convention), Months are massively important in an agrarian society. They described the change in the seasons, by far the most important part of the life of a farmer. The numeric date was the next most relevant, as it allowed the counting of days, and the year was the least important; Who the **** cares that it's 1523 years after some poor sap died?

edit: By the way, I apologize on behalf of my countrymen, assuming those who seem to be aren't just terrible trolls. period as decimal point and comma as magnitudal delimiter looks nicer to me, but only because I'm used to it. I can think of a lot of silly arguments for both sides, but the important thing is that we understand each other, and I think we generally are able to :)


Well, the Roman depended a lot on agriculture and for centuries they wouldn't bother to set the calendar to fit with seasons: their year under the Romulus calendar was some 300 days long, but the maximum priest (?) could add additonal winter days whenever he cared. Farmers themselves didn't cared about dates nor calendars, as they watched the sun and weather patterns (like, "it hasn't frosted for a month and the setting sun has reached that hill, thus it's time to plow the fields").

My very informal guess is that the barbarians in the Isles just acquired an habit to do things opposed to what their Roman conquerors did, a trait still noticeable on how those silly Brittons (and their offspring) think. Lol
Zaza Laolle
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-02-16 15:26:02 UTC
Most mathematical oriented programms process the numpad dot key as a decimal separator and eve should do the same.

The real issue is the dot key of the numpad still inputs a dot in eve : in Excell or OpenOffice, whenever I type the dot key of the numpad, it inputs a comma - this dot key is understood as a decimal separator.

Eve itself seems lost : I can not copy / paste a value from an order to another.
Dharq
Fringe Element
#63 - 2012-02-16 16:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dharq
Kay: It's a universal translator. We're not even supposed to have it, and I'll tell you why... Human thought is so primitive it's looked upon as an infectious disease in some of the better galaxies. That kind of makes you proud, doesn't it? huh?

Edit:nothing? not even a giggle...................... tough crowd
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#64 - 2012-02-16 17:16:28 UTC
This still isn't fixed. WTF.


I'm setting a bug report everyday until this is fixed.

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2012-02-16 18:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Riley Moore wrote:
This still isn't fixed. WTF.


I'm setting a bug report everyday until this is fixed.

Please don't Shocked
We already have a defect on it (and ideas how to fix it), and it's just going to waste everyone's time if you keep filing bugrepoorts on it P

(i'm assuming you were talking about the numpad decimal not working, not what's the correct way to write numbers and dates like some people are arguing about here P.
The numpad decimal should work on your keyboard if it's set to the same language as the regional settings... for example, it doesn't work when I have US-EN keyboard but Icelandic regional settings, but if I switch the keyboard to Icelandic, it works just fine... so you might want to change the keyboard settings until we fix it)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#66 - 2012-02-16 18:45:30 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Riley Moore wrote:
This still isn't fixed. WTF.


I'm setting a bug report everyday until this is fixed.

Please don't Shocked
We already have a defect on it (and ideas how to fix it), and it's just going to waste everyone's time if you keep filing bugrepoorts on it P


Twisted I'm not that evil.

Do please fix it one way or another :3

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#67 - 2012-02-16 18:50:27 UTC
Just wondering, why are you guys looking at the poor end of your wallet? Even better question, why are you worried about fractions of isk?

*shrugs*

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#68 - 2012-02-16 18:52:29 UTC
Kilrayn wrote:
Just wondering, why are you guys looking at the poor end of your wallet? Even better question, why are you worried about fractions of isk?

*shrugs*


Market games.

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Jita Alt666
#69 - 2012-02-16 19:06:41 UTC
0.1 x 100,000,000,000.00 = 10,000,000,000.00 oh wait it now equals 10.000.000.000,00
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#70 - 2012-02-16 19:49:27 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
ir'a based on your regional settings... so for example, for the Americans(or anyone using "us" settings) "." is the decimal symbol while it's "," for Icelandic.

I'm glad you like it... should I maybe not tell you that you could always do that by swapping 2 values in the prefs file... yeah, I think I won't P


Any chance to force the game NOT TO USE the regional settings?
I tried to force it by editing the prefs.ini, however that did not helped at all.
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-02-16 20:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaxix
DarkAegix wrote:
I feel like having another little rant.

DD/MM/YY is correct.

MM/DD/YY is not correct.

Days go into months, and months go into years. DD/MM/YY is a logical progression of size.

MM/DD/YY, however, is just an eyesore and logical failure.

I can respect YY/MM/DD, but one must consider that when it comes to dates we often care about the day and month before anything else.

*Flashes Grammar Nerd Badge*

As with most of the comments on this thread, conventions vary from region to region and language to language. In this particular case, the "Euro" convention is actually based on Gregorian calendar notations used by European church scribes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_date ). I can't find any clear info on why the American date format differs, but I suspect its traditional American laziness with language. Why say 4th of March when you could say March 4th and save like half a second?

Decimals vs. Commas (if someone hasn't already linked this) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark. Lots of interesting factoids to stash in my Grammar Nerd Backpack. TL;DR--it all comes down to early printing conventions.
Tippia wrote:
No, it doesn't, because it's not a question of grammar. It's a question of local mathematical notation and the effects it has on machine input (and, as others have shown, it's much the same as the difference between date formats).

It is definitely a question of grammar. Entire sections of the Chicago Manual of Style, Gregg's Reference Manual, etc. deal specifically with numbers and the many ways in which they are used in both numeric and written form. Punctuation and other forms of symbolic meaning are part of grammar and they serve as a visual shorthand for an unstated principles (e.g. in regular sentences, a period is really saying "this is the end of this particular statement; anything that follows is not part of this statement," and a comma is really saying "what follows is closely related to, but separate from, the previous unit of meaning"). Math is a language and it definitely has a grammar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_mathematics ). Commas, periods, and other symbols serve that same function--abbreviated language.

I return to my cubicle in the library.

Bokononist

 
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#72 - 2012-02-16 20:16:12 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
I feel like having another little rant.

DD/MM/YY is correct.

MM/DD/YY is not correct.

Days go into months, and months go into years. DD/MM/YY is a logical progression of size.

MM/DD/YY, however, is just an eyesore and logical failure.

I can respect YY/MM/DD, but one must consider that when it comes to dates we often care about the day and month before anything else.


Personally my favorite is the YY/MM/DD - and the reason is for that:
Take a program which creates a folder every day. After a year or two, you look that folder, and you see a big mess, as the directories are sorted by the first two characters, so you get a list where it's hard to find - select the days which are within a month.
However if you have the folder structure in: YY/MM/DD then the folder list will be a clean list, where you can easily find the days, which are belonging to one month.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2012-02-16 20:35:02 UTC
Lost Hamster wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
ir'a based on your regional settings... so for example, for the Americans(or anyone using "us" settings) "." is the decimal symbol while it's "," for Icelandic.

I'm glad you like it... should I maybe not tell you that you could always do that by swapping 2 values in the prefs file... yeah, I think I won't P


Any chance to force the game NOT TO USE the regional settings?
I tried to force it by editing the prefs.ini, however that did not helped at all.

No, sorry, I don't think you can do it as it is now (and I don't think there are any plans to change it).

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#74 - 2012-02-17 03:45:08 UTC
I hope this is the place for this, but I'd really like to see:

1) commas, full-stops, decimals (whatever you use) in the calculator, so my rapidly aging eyes can tell 100m from 10b when doing calculations.

2) an RPN option on the calculator. I can't be the only engineer that plays eve. Calculators should not have an = sign on them, it's blasphemous.

3) Can we please please please get the date to show in the lower left corner near the Eve time like it used to??? I play west coast USA and it's usually the next day Eve time, or sometimes it's not. It drive me mental to have to open the calendar to find out which day it is.

TYVM.
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-02-17 04:30:32 UTC
I thought it was pence for you people.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#76 - 2012-02-17 04:39:10 UTC
Zaxix wrote:
It is definitely a question of grammar. Entire sections of the Chicago Manual of Style, Gregg's Reference Manual, etc. deal specifically with numbers and the many ways in which they are used in both numeric and written form.
…and none of them are grammar books but style guides for one — particular and non-universal — way of doing things. Hell, it's not even consistent within the same language (which is why those style guides are needed: to patch a hole that isn't covered by the rules of grammar)…

Quote:
Math is a language and it definitely has a grammar. Commas, periods, and other symbols serve that same function--abbreviated language.
Too bad that it's not consistent and that saying one way of using separators for magnitudes and decimals is “wrong” and another is “right”, as if it was some kind of absolute, is absolutely wrong.
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#77 - 2012-02-17 06:15:26 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Stealth indication of decline in American subscribers. Big smile


Does China use ',' or '.'?


edit: Crap. They use "九" for the decimal point.



Hang on a minute here. You were really stupid enough to think China uses the same numbering system?

*headdesk*
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#78 - 2012-02-17 06:18:10 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
WRONG WRONG WRONG
A period is correct. Trust me, Australia knows its stuff.

Besides, in scientific notation I believe that even Europeans used a period. Well, Wikipedia mentions nothing about commas. Probably because no one cares.
3.4 * 10^32

'Grammatically' it also makes sense, as a period is used to separate two different 'ideas', if you will, while a comma is a continuation of the same thing.

If read like a sentence:

$12,726.21
Twelve thousand, seven hundred and twenty-six dollars. *STOP* and twenty-one cents.

$12.726,21
Twelve. *STOP* Seven hundred and twenty-six and twenty-one. (WTF?)


Grammar != maths

Durrrr
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#79 - 2012-02-17 06:19:19 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Which continent is currently experiencing a financial crisis for some of its countries?
Europe.

What do they use as a decimal mark when considering large sums of money?
A comma.


Oh dear.
It looks like commas are incorrect.


Yep the USA is definitely NOT in financial crisis.

Owai..........

Roll
Terajima Kazumi
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-02-17 07:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Terajima Kazumi
Reicine Ceer wrote:
Joahna Gramer wrote:


Sorry to dissapoint you, but what you say is only true for America and England. In most of Europe they use the comma to seperate between them.

Quote:
In English, the comma is used as a thousands separator (and the period as a decimal separator), to make large numbers easier to read. So write the size of Alaska as 571,951 square miles instead of 571951 square miles. In Continental Europe the opposite is true, periods are used to separate large numbers and the comma is used for decimals. Finally, the International Systems of Units (SI) recommends that a space should be used to separate groups of three digits, and both the comma and the period should be used only to denote decimals, like $13 200,50 (the comma part is a mess… I know).
Source



My grammatical point still stands. Just because people do something doesn't mean it's in any way, shape, or form, correct. If a period is used to separate sentences in text, and a comma is used to allow a pause in a sentence, then mathematically these two symbols should in any right-thinking world be used in the exact same context.

The excerpt from dailywritingtips.com is simply aping what people 'do'. Whilst a vast majority of people may be doing it this way, it implies that their math is all horribly wrong (economic crises anyone?). Of course, language is a fluid and beautiful thing - new ways and old ways of speaking and using words occur every day, but - getting back to the topic here - grammatically, the way the likes of the Icelanders use commas and periods in displaying numbers is undeniably and horribly backwards, and just because people got taught wrong doesn't mean it should stay that way :P

"grammatik macht frei", etc

As long as a grammar is well defined, symbol choice is irrelevant. Arguing that one grammar should adhere to some convention on the basis that said convention is similar to a convention in another grammar is likewise irrelevant. One of the first things you learn when studying language theory is that symbols can be assigned a meaning arbitrarily.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark