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Recommended L3 fitted Minmatar ship *Update*
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Zeus C
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-02-15 17:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeus C
Hi folks

I am new to missioning and I'm doing it purely for the money.

I recently gained enough standing to move from L2 to L3 missions and my current ship (rupture) won't cut it anymore.

I checked out battleclinic fits and the best rated one was a Drake so I am cross-training for that and will take ca 3 days to complete. In the mean time, is there any ship and fitting you would recommend for L3s that does not need cross training (ie Minmatar only) ?

Thank you


*Update*

I followed the passive shield tank fit suggested below by Ayeshah and others, but I run in the following problem.

I am doing one of the first L3 missions where I am asked to clear an area. The area has a lot of rats and I start snipping from 25+ km.

The problem is that the shield goes down every 3-4 rats and as soon as the damage hits the armor I dock and repair.

Every repair costs 2,2 million isk, and at that rate I must repair 6-8 times for that mission before all rats are destroyed, so the mission will cost me 15 million isk and I will get 0,9 million isk as a reward.

I am obviously doing something very wrong but don't know what.

Help greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Zag'mar Jurkar
Legion Du Lys
#2 - 2012-02-15 17:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zag'mar Jurkar
Look for Hurricanes. Did great for me when I was running L3s.

Sorry if I have no fit, but you will likely find one on battleclinic.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2012-02-15 17:42:25 UTC
Drake is the common response, but any tier2 BC can do lvl 3s fine. In your case, that's the Hurricane. However, the fitting will differ depending on the type of tank you prefer (Canes can armor tank or shield tank just fine). "Which one do you prefer to do?" is the bigger question.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-02-15 17:55:22 UTC
Use a hurricane and save training time.

[Hurricane, Cheap Cane]

720mm Howitzer Artillery I
720mm Howitzer Artillery I
720mm Howitzer Artillery I
720mm Howitzer Artillery I
720mm Howitzer Artillery I
720mm Howitzer Artillery I
Small Tractor Beam I
[Empty High slot]

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Invulnerability Field I
Invulnerability Field I
Large Shield Extender I

Gyrostabilizer I
Gyrostabilizer I
Gyrostabilizer I
Tracking Enhancer I
Tracking Enhancer I
Damage Control I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin I x5

Tractor Beam is optional, higher meta modules if you can afford.
Fusion ammo vs angels, Phased Plasma vs anything else and Titanium Sabot if you need extra tracking.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#5 - 2012-02-15 18:03:26 UTC
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Phased Plasma vs anything else


EMP should be better for Sansha and Blood Raiders than PP.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-02-15 18:19:11 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Phased Plasma vs anything else


EMP should be better for Sansha and Blood Raiders than PP.


That's a misconception I noticed being thrown a whole lot.

Due to the higher thermal damage "packet" on PP, the damage difference between the 2 is negligible, at best, specially in an Artillery fit.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#7 - 2012-02-15 18:20:29 UTC
I really preferred the Cyclone to the Hurricane, at least as far as missions go.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-02-15 18:24:46 UTC
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Phased Plasma vs anything else


EMP should be better for Sansha and Blood Raiders than PP.


That's a misconception I noticed being thrown a whole lot.

Due to the higher thermal damage "packet" on PP, the damage difference between the 2 is negligible, at best, specially in an Artillery fit.


I just looked up the stats on M PP and M EMP. They both deal 24 damage total per round, divided between all the damage types. EMP does 18/2/0/4 damage, PP does 0/20/4/0 damage. So EMP does 18 damage to the primary resist hole and 2 damage to the secondary hole while PP does 20 damage to the secondary hole.

It seems like EMP would still come out ahead. I agree that it might not be as much better than PP as it is Fusion, but EMP still seems best for rats with an EM hole.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#9 - 2012-02-15 18:29:40 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Phased Plasma vs anything else


EMP should be better for Sansha and Blood Raiders than PP.


That's a misconception I noticed being thrown a whole lot.

Due to the higher thermal damage "packet" on PP, the damage difference between the 2 is negligible, at best, specially in an Artillery fit.


I just looked up the stats on M PP and M EMP. They both deal 24 damage total per round, divided between all the damage types. EMP does 18/2/0/4 damage, PP does 0/20/4/0 damage. So EMP does 18 damage to the primary resist hole and 2 damage to the secondary hole while PP does 20 damage to the secondary hole.

It seems like EMP would still come out ahead. I agree that it might not be as much better than PP as it is Fusion, but EMP still seems best for rats with an EM hole.


You can get the NPC resists from npc.elfarto ... then it just becomes a matter of figuring out how much EHP they have to each ammo type. IIRC, EMP is better but not by as much as you might think. Its one of the reasons Minmatar "damage type selection" is so widely overrated as compared to Caldari missiles.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#10 - 2012-02-15 18:34:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
You can get the NPC resists from npc.elfarto ... then it just becomes a matter of figuring out how much EHP they have to each ammo type. IIRC, EMP is better but not by as much as you might think. Its one of the reasons Minmatar "damage type selection" is so widely overrated as compared to Caldari missiles.

-Liang


Is there a data dump in a decent format floating around somewhere? This sounds like a job for a quick python script if I can get my hands on some data I don't have to parse by hand.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2012-02-15 18:39:05 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
You can get the NPC resists from npc.elfarto ... then it just becomes a matter of figuring out how much EHP they have to each ammo type. IIRC, EMP is better but not by as much as you might think. Its one of the reasons Minmatar "damage type selection" is so widely overrated as compared to Caldari missiles.

-Liang


Is there a data dump in a decent format floating around somewhere? This sounds like a job for a quick python script if I can get my hands on some data I don't have to parse by hand.


Hmmm, IIRC the story is that NPCs used to be part of the data dump but they were removed several years back. It does mean that the data is out of date, but it seems unlikely that the stats have noticeably changed. AFAIK the only place to get the data is places that have built websites around the old data dump.

With some hunting you might find one of the old data dumps though.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zeus C
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-02-15 20:30:36 UTC
Thank you all for the input and for taking the time to respond.

mxzf asked what is my preferred tank. I don't think I have one, skill wise.

Buffered shield tanks I like the most because they are passive and I have one less think to worry about.

Armor tanking on the other hand and from my limited experience gives better control and survivability.

I have been told that the best tank for each ship depends on the available slots; more mid slots means shield tank and more lows means better armor tank (or vice versa - can't check from where I am) .

Hope this makes some sense, I'm learning as I go.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-15 21:21:13 UTC
Zeus C wrote:

I have been told that the best tank for each ship depends on the available slots; more mid slots means shield tank and more lows means better armor tank

Pretty much.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#14 - 2012-02-15 21:21:52 UTC
Zeus C wrote:
I have been told that the best tank for each ship depends on the available slots; more mid slots means shield tank and more lows means better armor tank (or vice versa - can't check from where I am) .


In general, yes. However, the Cane (like some other Minmatar ships) can actually shield or armor tank quite well, it's one of the few ships who can truly shine with either type of tank.

Shield tanking would probably be best for your situation though, since you indicated a preference towards passive tanking and shield tanking lets you devote more lowslots to damage. (see Ayeshah Volfield's fit)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-02-15 21:26:12 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Zeus C wrote:
I have been told that the best tank for each ship depends on the available slots; more mid slots means shield tank and more lows means better armor tank (or vice versa - can't check from where I am) .


In general, yes. However, the Cane (like some other Minmatar ships) can actually shield or armor tank quite well, it's one of the few ships who can truly shine with either type of tank.

Shield tanking would probably be best for your situation though, since you indicated a preference towards passive tanking and shield tanking lets you devote more lowslots to damage. (see Ayeshah Volfield's fit)


If you have the skills for it a Cyclone is a better mission ship than a cane.

Faster, active tank bonus, pew pew pew/

Of course, I did most of the level threes in a an arty myrm, part it unless Ze Hounds, and wait basically.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#16 - 2012-02-15 21:28:21 UTC
Pretty much all I'd input has been said. Hurricane is the way to go, and training battlecruisers V eventually is never a regrettable thing.

Use primary damage type if you encounter elite rats with good resists (arch gistum, sansha's loyal etc). For sansha and blood I'd go EMP for the chance of having to deal with those.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#17 - 2012-02-16 00:53:39 UTC
If you use damage specific shield hardeners they use less cap per cycle that the invul fields do. It is worth the few seconds to swap them out each mission if your cap it tight.

When I was a young Hurricane pilot I flew a passive cane and just absorbed the damage as I puttered around killing things. This is what the fit was when I moved on to cap stable active shield tanking (I found it still sitting in a hangar):


[Hurricane, Passivecane]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
'Malkuth' Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

Without skills EFT puts the defense value at 330 and 34,445 ehp.
With the mythical 'all V's' it puts the defense at 550 and 43,000 ehp

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#18 - 2012-02-16 08:55:19 UTC
Back in the day I used to be hooked on artillery with the Hurricane.
Then I tried this:

[Hurricane, All T1]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Fourier Transform I Tracking Program
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP M
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, EMP M
'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Terror Assault Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Terror Assault Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior I x5

Never looked back.
Orbiting at speed helps a lot, damage output is immense for a lvl3.
If you don't feel confident enough with the tank or the DPS your skillset allows you to dish out, change the second gyrostab for a fourth SPR. Meta4 item can be expensive, downgrade if you must. The AB is called differently now, so are the missiles. Use T2 where you can, especially drones.

Two things:
1) webbers MUST go down first (proactively send drones at them)
2) watch the triggers!

And, of course, if you have problems with a mission, join HelpMyMission in-game channel and ask nicely for help.
Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#19 - 2012-02-16 09:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike712
Some rather iffy loadouts suggested so far, like the one above with no resists and 3 shield extenders bloating the sig radius allot.

Next time you use battleclinic try searching for the exact ship you're after, then you'll filter out all the drakes and everything else. Try the recommended tag also, which will show you setups that the mods recommend only.

A quick search found this:

[Hurricane, Lv3 Passive Hurricane]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Tracking Enhancer II

Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay
650mm Medium Gallium Cannon
650mm Medium Gallium Cannon
650mm Medium Gallium Cannon
650mm Medium Gallium Cannon
650mm Medium Gallium Cannon
650mm Medium Gallium Cannon

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior II

Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/48976-Lv3-Passive-Hurricane.html#ixzz1mXCaQN00

It fits with low skills(use T1 anywhere you can't use tech 2) and will be capable of finishing all lv3s with ease.

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team