EVE General Discussion

the difference between you and him is that he has seen firsthand what happens when you start introducing tons of new content to what was previously a balanced system. multiple times.

its even messier when said system is unbalanced.

Its relevant when continuously insisting that the ~elitepvp~ alliances rely on quality, experience says otherwise. they rely on total SP number, not player skill.

Every alliance has their amazing players, good players, average joes, and terrible stragglers. Every single one. Some alliances like to bring tons of people, some like to bring tons of SP. "Quality" doesn't really factor into the equation at this point.

If you're implying that I'm affiliated with Goonswarm or one or it's allies... wrong guess.

I note that you avoid replying to my points, however. Running out of arguments?

Aside deploying more titans to the field, everything else from tracking, limiting number of titans on the grid, penalties and so on is a titan nerf. Problem is, there are no anti super-cap weapons to level the field.

30-40 dreads are in titan price range, deploying 30-40 dreads for each titan is almost crazy, for 10 titans on field, even if there was no support, that's 300-400 dreads. For 30 titan blob the other side deploys 1000 dreads....its insane.

On the other hand, the situation is out of control, titans were rebalanced in the past, and nerfed on every occasion. After all these years its normal for the economy to get to a point that having a titan is not a big deal anymore.
IIRC first BS that got built in eve was a dominix and at that time it was a big deal, some people even self-destructed first BS to show how easy they can build more.
I dont see a way to nerf the blob of smaller ships that would pawn a subcap group, or a way to completely allow subcaps to **** 30 titans just for fairness and balance.

So they can fix dreads to have a role aside shooting PoS, or introduce a new anti cap ship. Having in mind that requirements to fly that ship should be around capital level SP range.

Oh I get that you dont acknowledge the basic premise of this thread. But since ignoring the premise of a discussion is the recipie for destruction of that discussion in the first place - as you bloody well know - I am concluding that it is in yours and your masters best interest to destroy discussions like this. Every thread on this subject you to try to twist into be about how the shining white knights of Deklein - defenders of EVEs goodness - is abused by de despicable, game abusing, probably exploiting forces af "elite pvp". Which enables you to ignore the topic and instead use the tread to sperg whatever propaganda your masters have told to to fill the forums with, like the good little monkey you are.

But I know at some point the spin doctors would take over. So be my guest. have fun sperging.

This thread hasnt had any on topic discussion the last 2 pages anyway. as I have said before:



But I dont play that game. So I am signing off.

confirming that GSF is the great white hope of EVE Online

I think you're grossly under-estimating how good capital turrets are now. If every XL weapon were as effective as a capital torp launcher, we'd be a lot closer to balance: ie. hitting targets smaller than a sluggish capital, supercap, or structure would be ineffective. That is how caps/supers should be balanced. The idea of supers being a "flagship," is correct; however, at present the game mechanics allow for capitals/supers with turrets to transcend that role and massare subcaps with nothing more than a couple recons toting faction webifiers and a t2 link loki.

It should take a HUGE number of subcaps (as it does already) to take down a super in a timely fashion, but allowing those supers with cap turrets to essentially mass up and blap their tiny opposition to death, without even commiting more than a token support fleet, is broken.

In terms of elitepvp vs. numbers, the weights are firmly tilted to the side of elitepvp at present. The only thing keeping elitepvp from absolutely shutting gsf and other subcap numbers alliances out of space is the incredible ease with which one can fight a defensive war with timers and sheer attrition. The only thing that keeps the super-heavy alliances from rolling into deklein right now is exellent political manuvering by CFC leadership, and the fact elitepvp is too impatient and their best attempt at it thus far has been a halariously failed "headshot," attempt on VFK.

I completely disagree with your insistance that more capitals are needed aswell. Firstly, the subcap metagame is already largely a deathmatch game. Sov is decided with supers and has been for years. Nobody rolls into a major sov holder's space with 500 subcaps and takes over, unless (hellow White NOise) those sov holders have already given up. Secondly, veterans no more drive this game than any other, and if you take a careful look at the movers and shakers in most top-tier alliances these days you will find fewer 2003-4 era vets than relative newcomers of the 2007-2010 age. Attempting to placate bitter vets by introducing more neigh-impossible-to-balance capital weapons is a recepie for disaster. If vets are unsatisfied after training for rank4 skills in every subcap (because you damn sure aren't going to haven an All-V's perfect subcap warrior in 5 years) then they need to find a new game. Eve has always been about the fact a newbie can focus his or her training to become 90% as effective as a vet in at least some narrow role. If you attempt to upset this with new capital roles you are doing nothing but further lengthening the time and alt count required to break into the nullsec sov. game, which is something newer alliances already struggle with.

tldr: Nerf XL turrets and hell no to new capital ships.

I'm reading this thread wondering why it isn't obvious to everyone that Akirei Scytale is right about this. I'd love to see carriers and dreads have a real purpose in fleet battles instead of X supers vs X+1 supers or 500 maelstroms/abaddons vs 500 abaddons/maelstroms.

Based on the cool design philosophy and balance found in subcaps, where big ships and small ships generally need middle-sized ships to kill each other, so should capital ships.

Frigs -> cruisers -> BC's -> BS's
Carriers -> Dreads -> SC's -> Titans

I'd like to see the bottom set scale in hp/dps/versatility in the same way as the top set, with carriers being to Titans what Frigates are to BS's. And the carriers/BS's bridge the gap.

This would make it so that instead of needing to counter a titan blob with X+1 titans, you could counter them with 2X Dreads or 1.5X SC's or 4X carriers. Seems like this would have two effects.

1) Smaller alliances who don't have supers could actually compete with supers by getting together a bunch of dread pilots (with subcap support of course).
2) Carriers/Dreads/SC's would be useful again even for the big alliances that HAVE titan blobs.

Granted, I'm not a super pilot or a game dev, so my opinion is that of an enthusiast only.

Of course my 2x 1.5x stuff was just shooting from the hip, there. I'll leave it to the devs to balance using cost ratios, build times, etc.

But yeah, at least you have one type of ship beating a different type of ship, instead of having to counter apples with more apples all the time. Don't you think that seems more interesting and exciting?