Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Its not true. Everybody with BS skill can get into a Raven or Domi and run L4s with zero danger given the proper fit. What fit is necessary to run them in a Myrmidon, for example, with same level of safety?

What about missions like The Blockade? Your tank will be insufficient if you get webbed because BS will tank twice the DPS that setup can. Sorry but that BC fit don't have the tank of usual BS L4 fit. Also, what about L4 missions where more than two hardeners are needed?

And your DPS will suck and even if you can break the tank of elite BS rat, it will take ages to bring it down.

And wait, its just because you see the problem of newbies getting ganked in a BS, that none else sees, and your solution creates more problems than it solves.

True, I couldn't do some missions, and some required hardener changes between rooms. But it was nonetheless feasable. Believe it or not.

And no, I'm not the only one seeing a problem with noobs getting blown up in expensive ship.

[spoiler] I didn't start this thread. [/spoiler]

My solution doesn't create any problems. It merely keeps noobs from making bad decisions, which in turn avoids ragequits. Don't tell me that you advocate running incursions without the most basic support skills as long as one is sitting in a BS. I expect much better from an EvE University member.



I agree.

The problem they have is based on lack of experience.

Create a helper window that let's them perform test fits on various ships. Let it show automated expectations about default fights against different NPC's.

IE: The rogue drones would destroy this ship in 3:30, consider a more sustainable tank, or guns with a higher DPS.

Put in a pull down menu to select a mission level, and another for NPC type.

(Yes, I know EFT and other programs do similar things, but if they already knew about those, they would not be in this position of flying horrible fits doomed to grief)

I cant really blame them. A lot of the new players have a hard time finding what to do and they migh find that instead of levels, you buy ships and buy better ships. So they just try to rush and grind the money for better ships. Someone should tell them to stop and that the point of the game is to.. Is to.. **** i dont even know myself what the point of the game is. Put a pvp fit to a rifter and go explore 0.0? That is my current project at least, no idea if it is wise.

Very true.

Maybe adding warnings like :

"You barely meet the prereqs for this ship. The certificates recommended for flying this ship are :
*list of certificates*
Are you sure you want to buy it/make it active/undock in it ?"

... without adding prereqs. But maybe adding more core certificates to various ships' recommendations.

I think this is a meritorious thread and I applaud the OP for it. I tend to agree, game design that promotes tremendous frustration and loss in new players is not optimum game design. I've seen it myself with my buddies in the game, and not merely with BS, with lower ship classes too.

While it is most true of the most expensive ships, it is also true by degrees of cruisers and battlecruisers and even other ships such as higher-tier haulers.

And those falling prey are not all "muppets." It is hard for new comers to EVE, even RL middle-aged professionals wizened by the crucibles of real life work place politics and relationships, to appreciate just how cut throat EVE really is, and just how risky certain foolish actions are. Until you get popped doing something stupid, it is difficult to realize just how stupid it was.

Having said all of that, to basically state agreement with the OP a number of broader issues arise in my mind.

1. I suspect CCP knows pretty well where their bread is buttered, and I suspect that it is mostly buttered by players in the 4month to 4 year age range who live in nullsec. That could be wrong, but all that I have learned about the game so far suggests to me that that is the case. Null sec is the 'gold standard' of PVP and many new players aspire to be there. LOTS of destruction happens there, and I imagine lots of plex and multi-accounts are sold to players who operate there.

2. I suspect that CCP regards the Destruction of assets is the single most important part of its revenue stream. After all, when a typical player suffers a loss, he/she is (all else being equal) more likely to need ISK and if they are as impatient and impetuous as most seem to be, that would increase the likelihood they buy a Plex. It is slow and tedious and a long haul to make true riches in game, but plenty of ISK are always just one secure transaction screen away. None of this is meant to be critical fo CCP, they are smart business people and I applaud their accumen.

3. Based on these two points, it may well be that a constant flow of new players who are foolish enough to get themelves into a ship class they are too 'young' to fly is in fact, exactly what CCPs design strategy is intended to foster. Indeed, when I look at various aspects of game design, this is precisely the tentative conclusion I reach. CCP WANTS noobs to rush into higher ship classes without training the skills and gaining the experience to fly them comptetently.

Again, I'm not saying this to be critical of CCP, they are smart business people.

So, I think the real solution here is as follows: take noobs under your wing. Instruct them, inculcate a patient vision to undertake the longhaul to epic glory. At present, I would not say that this ethos of social interaction is 'the norm' in the EVE community. Certainly there are some VERY helpful, nice and friendly players, but in general, disdain, indifference if not cruelty are the norms.

As some other earlier postrs pointed out: a change to the ship pre-requisits or the ship durability etc., would probably only create some alternative 'problem.'

If you really care about growing the community, and helping to prevent foolish noobs suffering heinous losses and rage quitting, I suggest a focus on the social aspects of the game. Changing game mechanics is not likely to work nearly as well as fostering noobs. Even if only 50% of 'experienced' players took just one "noob" under their wing every six months, I suspect it would make a difference.

Indeed. OP is falling into a classical trap of curing a symptome rather than illness.

There is a tab in info for Recommended Certificates.

Just put a red highlight around the fitting window if the character doesn't have all the recommendations.

You can't force people to not be stupid, but you can let the ones who aren't violently stupid have a last chance to think before getting themselves blown up.

You know, when CCP removed the Learning Skills, there was one stand out issue they never addressed:

They were excellent poo filters/buffers.

Simply because they forced people to wait and learn patience before going off into the wider world of EVE. Anyone who couldn't handle flying around with basically no skills (well before they added the 3rd bloodline) never progressed past the first month as they'd quit. Even after they added higher starting skills and stats, the skills still presented a good filter.

Hence the reason now you seen people jumping into BS's as soon as they can without understanding them or really having the skills for them.

I recently took part in a NPC corp chat with a couple of month old player who was trying to fit not only multiple types of size guns to a dominix for level 2's, but also fitting both armour and shield tanks, while also attempting to both go active and buffer. Madness.