Intergalactic Summit

I hope you realize that a large proportion of the Kingdom's population including King Khanid himself are True Amarr?

Thank you for the words of clarity and wisdom, sir. I am always pleased to see level-headedness prevail in any circumstance. Let us both hope that what little good we can offer to the cluster is not overshadowed by our differences.

Perhaps you would be willing to visit the Kaashivon Public Hall in Samanuni, the Black Rise region. I would be honored to share a drink with you.

The Caldari and the Amarr have one attribute which will forever unite them and overcome any differences: Anti-Federate spite.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people are so determined to interject worthless comments in order to provoke a response.

Rather than humor you, I will simply state that the Caladari and the Amarr have very differing reasons to be at odds with the Federation, but the mandate of one does not require the eradication of the Federation, only independence from it.

[ edit: removing double post]

Oh I'm sure you meant no such thing.

Like I said, I'm all for unity and such especially for a worthy cause.

You're right - That was a gross generalization. I apologize.

But how can you make statements like that in complete honesty? I've seen you argue down several Practicals and extremist Patriots on this forum who have it in their minds to burn the Federation to the ground in the name of the State. How can you promise me that Heth won't be deposed by one, or simply become one himself, and seek the end of our society, when it is so clear that elements that desire this exist? You can't.

You make a lot of absolute statements about your country, but you know many are ideals rather then reality.

As a side note, it's getting to be a little bizzare how you seem to be pretending the alliance between the Amarr and Caldari doesn't exist. It exists. Your nations are bound. Their sins are your sins, just as the Federation shares the responsibility for the Elder attacks with the Matari.



Nationalist party? Please. You assume just because I'm pro-war that I'd put a bunch of facists at the helm of our country?

And don't tell me to bite my tongue. I'll express my opinions as I see fit, and not sugar-coat them for your benefit.

I don't see what's all that complicated about it. By offering support to a group commiting a wrong, even if you don't commit the wrong directly, you give them greater ability to commit it themselves. To use a intentionally over-the-top example, every Caldari ship on the Amarrian front supports their goals by freeing up another ship elsewhere for slave raiding. To use a more realistic one, every shipment of Caldari steel shipped to the Empire allows them to build a few more ships, which might allow them to hold a system for a few days longer, which might allow them to "Reclaim" a few more Matari from their homes. Etc, etc.

You can't claim not to be responsible just because you don't have a say in what the policies are. Because, I mean, you know what it is they do. It's not a secret. If a serial murderer asks to borrow a knife and goes on to stab someone to death with it, you're at fault for enabling him to do so - even if he made a half hearted attempt to tell you he was planning to slice bread.

This should go without saying, but obviously this applies to good deeds as well as "Wrongs".

Well... I stand corrected, then. I assumed you had a skewed perspective of the nature of the alliance.

I'm... Surprised at your willingness to accept the flaws in the State, without any trying to find some means to justify or match them in the Federation. Perhaps I've been too willing to judge you for supporting it's ideals, without considering why you might do so.

I can't fault you for supporting your country for it's own sake. It was not your choice to be born into it. All you can do is make the best out of what you are given. I've been quick to forget that.

It is a great shame that the State could not remain a part of the Federation, for whatever reason.

If you must label him so, rather say that he sounds more like a Hyasoda liberal. Most of the vocal Ishukone loyalists seem to have decided that they can no longer live in the State while it is led by Heth-haan and have thrown themselves fully into supporting Ishukone's specific interests outside of State boundaries. This is not an accusation, as one's first loyalties should be to one's own corporation. I just think it less fitting to lump someone who stands firmly behind the State as it is right now as an Ishukone-sort.

For what it is worth, I see nothing incompatible with Khross-haan's statements and his position as a fellow supporter of Wiyrkomi and thus a so-called "Patriot". Being a Patriot, or for that matter a patriot, is not about denying reality and foaming at the mouth. We see the strength and preeminence of the State as being the principle goal for which we should strive, with trade and military might both being means to that end. Only the more extreme Patriots are rabidly pro-war and deny that anything is ever wrong in the State. Most of us accept that there are failings, and that we can address those over time, but those are either things that will take a long time to deal with or we may have other priorities in the short term.

Of course Liberals are not necessarily any less loyal to the State, but a gross oversimplification would be that our means is their end and vice versa. On many subjects you might well never hear a difference, because the viewpoints are more like mirrors and less like poles.

There is also a difference between what we say here and what we do with our time. As an example, were I to judge many Minmatar pilots by their IGS posts, I would be forced to think that most are far more concerned with fighting the Amarr than anything else and care little about feeding the poor in refugee camps. I might judge many an Amarrian as equally Minmatar-obsessed, and apparently less committed to their avowed Faith than to some ancient Gallentean god of war. Yet in the meantime both sets are likely to be sending wealth home, giving workers gainful employment in hangars and factories and mining facilities, addressing the spiritual needs of their dependents, and perhaps even making quiet efforts to address some of the darker corners of our societies. So may any Caldari, Patriot or not, seem to care more about spouting anti-Gallente rhetoric here than building a more prosperous State at home, and yet that may be less truth than mirage.