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Gallente needs a buff+redesign

Author
GreenSeed
#21 - 2012-02-14 12:40:01 UTC
Orcirk wrote:
Katherine Starlight wrote:

And hulltanking doesent have anything to do with gallente specificly.

Gallente have the most hull HP, and the best slot layouts for hull tanking (a mix of extra lows and mids, with an emphasis on lows. Hull reppers go in mid slots and DCs/reinforced bulkheads go in the lows)

We also currently have an armor tanking race, a shield tanking race, and a race that does a bit of everything. It's fairly obvious that gallente were, at some point, supposed to hull tank.

thats quite the logical jump.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-02-14 15:41:31 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Orcirk wrote:
Katherine Starlight wrote:

And hulltanking doesent have anything to do with gallente specificly.

Gallente have the most hull HP, and the best slot layouts for hull tanking (a mix of extra lows and mids, with an emphasis on lows. Hull reppers go in mid slots and DCs/reinforced bulkheads go in the lows)

We also currently have an armor tanking race, a shield tanking race, and a race that does a bit of everything. It's fairly obvious that gallente were, at some point, supposed to hull tank.

thats quite the logical jump.


Those saying Gallente hull tanking is a lie never flown Taranis Lol
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#23 - 2012-02-14 16:21:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
....


I'm skittish of the Electron Thorax against a dual neut Rupture. IMO the only way this is winnable is if you get lucky on ECM drone jams.

-Liang


If that's the only losing scenario you could think of wrt to Alara's fit, then I'll consider that a win for the Electron Thorax.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-02-14 17:53:14 UTC
Gallente Ships.

Designed to tank with your hull - Real Men Hull Tank.

Gallente Ships.

Designed to engage your enemy with a truly manly Do or Die attitude - Real Men Fly Gallente.

Gallente Ships.

The Real Ships. For Real Men.

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Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#25 - 2012-02-15 09:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
This is ridiculous. Learn to fly in small gangs. Active armor bonuses are quite useful. The problem is that you're trying to tank them like they're Amarr ships in the first place.

Amarr and Caldari for prolonged slugfests. Minmatar and Gallente for Skirmishing.

Let me break this down. Minmatar and Gallente fleets are not designed to go toe to toe against Caldari and Amarr fleets. The resist bonuses on Caldari/Amarr boats give their fleets a serious advantage when it comes to sustaining damage over long periods of time, as happens in large fleet battles or during missions/incursions. However, the boats that do have those bonuses are also seriously gimped in viable speed (armor plates/rigs) or damage (missiles take the longest by far to apply their damage.) This is where Gallente and Minmatar ships really shine.

Gallente active armor rep bonus is a godsend when roaming in small gangs with only one or maybe two Onieros for logi. Such a fleet can roam around, with a combat probe capable scout, gank targets of opportunity, get out of dodge, and rep up if they've taken any scratches. Try doing that with a caldari/amarr fleet and you'll see a very noticeable loss of efficiency. Getting a basi/guardian logi chain going removes valuable dps from your gang, and the ships will be much slower (and in the case of the caldari, waiting for missiles to hit means that you're giving your enemy's friends/alts that much more time to show up.) Even your average minmatar small gang is boned if they take some armor damage. Assuming the gang is all minmatar, they've got shield logi (Scimitar) and will most likely all be flying shield tanked ships (Jag, Vaga, Cyclone/Sleip/Claymore, etc.) No way to rep armor damage there without docking up.

Just gotta learn the style of gameplay that Gallente ships present. It's not for everyone. No single race is. I will give you this, though: armor rigs need a different penalty.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-02-15 09:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
i do notice that all pilots who say gallente are fine do have terrible kb stats.

Not sure what you are doing the entire day. Last time i checked gallente (yesterday) i saw a lot of gallente ships pushing the panic button while facing a bhaalgorn.



Gallente is still lacking support and they do have a hughe cap need......

If you are insisting that gallente ships are fine i'm happy to provide some battle reports vs thorax gangs or vs dominix fleet.
Right after the past buff people fly gallente like nuts but die even more.


There are currently 4 gallente ships i would use in pvp
- the phobos for high sec fast lock tackle
- the ares, a damn nice tackler
- the myrm, the only well rounded ship
- the kronos, it has support ! neuts + damage + a nice mix of stats


Fly whatever you like. My conclusion is the more gallente i see the more neutralizers i will fit.
Jodie Amille
EVE Corporation 690846971
#27 - 2012-02-15 10:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jodie Amille
thoth rothschild wrote:
i do notice that all pilots who say gallente are fine do have terrible kb stats.

Not sure what you are doing the entire day. Last time i checked gallente (yesterday) i saw a lot of gallente ships pushing the panic button while facing a bhaalgorn.


I would submit that most ships will hit their panic button when facing a bhaalgorn. I would also submit that these instances are hardly common and not worth discussing in regards to balance
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#28 - 2012-02-15 10:22:25 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:
i do notice that all pilots who say gallente are fine do have terrible kb stats.

Not sure what you are doing the entire day. Last time i checked gallente (yesterday) i saw a lot of gallente ships pushing the panic button while facing a bhaalgorn.



Gallente is still lacking support and they do have a hughe cap need......

If you are insisting that gallente ships are fine i'm happy to provide some battle reports vs thorax gangs or vs dominix fleet.
Right after the past buff people fly gallente like nuts but die even more.


For the record, this isn't my first or only toon. That said ... in my 6+ years of playing all over New Eden, very rarely have I ever seen anyone put together an effective 10 man skirmishing squad. It does happen, but for the most part people in EVE just don't have a good grasp on skirmish/guerrilla tactics. Doubly so for people griping about how they think armor rep bonuses are bad.

There are a lot of things that are off with a lot of ships, Gallente included. Most of this is just a result of the game growing iteratively over the years and old ideas becoming out dated. The tier system, for example. Armor rigs with velocity penalties is another example in which gallente ships specifically were clearly overlooked. It has always been the case, intentionally so, that minmatar and gallente fleets be the better skirmishers and not the better standing navies. They'll work in blob warfare and long-lasting fleet fights in a pinch, but they will be at a disadvantage. It's always been that way, and that's always been the intention thanks to their advantage at skirmishing and generally making the day-to-day life of their enemies miserable.

Of course, there are a lot of things to fix, and not just with the Gallente. The tier system, as I mentioned, needs to be removed in favor of designing ships by class and role. The viability of the different EWar types needs to be looked at again and adjusted. There are a lot of other things of course, but I'll stop there at the risk of derailing the thread.

Active armor tanks (and active shield tanks) are just fine when used properly.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#29 - 2012-02-15 11:12:52 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:

If you are insisting that gallente ships are fine i'm happy to provide some battle reports vs thorax gangs or vs dominix fleet.
Right after the past buff people fly gallente like nuts but die even more.


Sure, why not! Would be cool to read some battle reports.


.

thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-15 11:25:53 UTC
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2012-02-15 11:37:09 UTC
The second one is not really interesting, anything would have died to that Oracle/Tornado blob, but please post a report of the first engagement.

.

Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#32 - 2012-02-15 12:05:54 UTC


Two problems with those 'raxes. First, they've got armor plates. That's going to keep them from closing range and staying there as well as they should, in addition to screwing up your ideal no-mwd close orbit. Secondly, they're not rigged. Armor rigs are currently quite silly for gallente use, so I'd go with hybrid rigs and astronautic rigs. The idea is to close range fast and hit hard. Done right, that cruiser fleet would have stood a decent chance against those ships. They'd just need to be fit well, get up close and stay there (a nice, tight, slow orbit that's within your tracking speed and outside of theirs.) I really hope you were just pulsing your MWDs. Use them to control range, not to orbit.

Basically, I can see why that fleet failed. But those same ships done differently would have stood a very solid chance. Those canes and the ares pose a serious threat, but the battleships should have been no sweat. Abaddon could be a problem if it's uber-tanked instead of gank fit, and has lots of T2 medium drones. That wasn't the ideal target for your cruiser fleet to go after, but it could have been done. It'd have been tough, but it was doable.

I'm tempted to train Gallente again (once upon a time I had a different toon) just to get some kms and show you guys how it's done.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#33 - 2012-02-15 12:59:41 UTC
Mechael wrote:


Two problems with those 'raxes. First, they've got armor plates. That's going to keep them from closing range and staying there as well as they should, in addition to screwing up your ideal no-mwd close orbit. Secondly, they're not rigged. Armor rigs are currently quite silly for gallente use, so I'd go with hybrid rigs and astronautic rigs. The idea is to close range fast and hit hard. Done right, that cruiser fleet would have stood a decent chance against those ships. They'd just need to be fit well, get up close and stay there (a nice, tight, slow orbit that's within your tracking speed and outside of theirs.) I really hope you were just pulsing your MWDs. Use them to control range, not to orbit.

Basically, I can see why that fleet failed. But those same ships done differently would have stood a very solid chance. Those canes and the ares pose a serious threat, but the battleships should have been no sweat. Abaddon could be a problem if it's uber-tanked instead of gank fit, and has lots of T2 medium drones. That wasn't the ideal target for your cruiser fleet to go after, but it could have been done. It'd have been tough, but it was doable.

I'm tempted to train Gallente again (once upon a time I had a different toon) just to get some kms and show you guys how it's done.


I would be very interested in some of your fittings and general way of using Gallente. My Char is now about half a year old and I am still struggling with some of the Gallente Armour tactics.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#34 - 2012-02-15 15:11:56 UTC
I'm pretty convinced the myrm is overpowered. I've flown it allot and know how to use it. you put implants plus links plus drugs into the mix you got a crazy pvp ship of doom. If you are taking it out on a large fleet fight you slap on some plates and sentry drones. if you are doing small/med sized fleet fights you can leave the reps on.

if you take away the myrms rep bonus for any other bonus you are in my eyes nerfing the myrm.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#35 - 2012-02-15 17:08:13 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:
i do notice that all pilots who say gallente are fine do have terrible kb stats.


I say Gallente are fine and its pretty much all I fly. In my current corp I've got a 89% efficiency rating and 300 solo/small gang kills in AUS/NZ TZ since about Dec first.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Mandos2k
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-02-15 17:50:10 UTC
I haven't played enough recently to comment on the viability of my all time favorite race I thought was lacking in the past but:

Liang Nuren wrote:
I say Gallente are fine and its pretty much all I fly. In my current corp I've got a 89% efficiency rating and 300 solo/small gang kills in AUS/NZ TZ since about Dec first.

-Liang



With all due respect how many of those are without HG implants and T3 gang links? From what I saw recently from you that's how you mostly roll nowadays. That's of course fine since its there to be used and still impressive, but the average player will not fly around with all sorts of maxed out booster alts and pirate implants. You can make almost anything work under those conditions.

The viability of a race should be determined by its effectiveness under average conditions imo. As in your average player probably is not flying around in a 620 dps tank Harpy as you do.


That should be kept in mind I think.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#37 - 2012-02-15 17:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Mandos2k wrote:
With all due respect how many of those are without HG implants and T3 gang links?


I haven't made use of T3 gang links or HG implants recently.

/shrug

-Liang

Ed: FWIW, my ship usage looks like this:
Harpy 128
Talos 41
Taranis 28
Brutix 18
Manticore 17
Crusader 8
Hurricane 7

The Talos, Taranis, Brutix, Crusader, and Hurricane generally don't feature HG implants or booster alts. The Harpy generally has one or the other (sometimes both).

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Jodie Amille
EVE Corporation 690846971
#38 - 2012-02-15 19:25:10 UTC


So you're bragging about killing t1 fit cruisers with three battleships and two bc's from the first link, and blobbing a cruiser fleet with bc's and 22 more dudes in the 2nd link.

Good job. Roll
equincu ocha
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-02-15 19:43:33 UTC

I think you linked the wrong report, sure you got some sweet t1 fit cruiser kills while station/gate camping, but you kind of lost on the isk efficiency on this one.


I'm shocked that a bunch of tier kiting 3 bc's can kill a few t1 cruisers.

Gallente is fine, at least as much as any other race. I don't really want to get off on a rant about active tanking vs buffer, so I'll leave it simple, if you want the resistance bonuses fly amarr or caldari.

Baby seal walked into a club

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#40 - 2012-02-15 19:58:14 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
SoapyTits wrote:
Two things:
1. Buff
Its not only the Myrmidon, alot of gallente ships are missing the 1 slot.

2. Redesign
Hulltanking should be more viable, more modules and better ones.

God Roll



Yes, my child?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log