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A noob question about my future career
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Grakulus Silmaril
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-02-15 09:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Grakulus Silmaril
I've found this thread very helpful too as it seems that I am pretty much in the same learning curve as the OP. I am a Minmatar pilot who is looking to go down the exploration route and is a newbie too.

From what I've read here so far, would you suggest using a Probe only for the initial scans? It has 5% bonus to scan strength of probes per frigate skill level and 5% reduction to survey probe flight time per level. I've been using that to scan with but I've also had it fitted with Codebreaker, Analyser and Salvager too. When I've needed combat I've headed back to station and got a Thrasher. I guess that this has the disadvantage of needing to go all the way back to a specific station to swap out rather than re-fitting a ship from it's own cargo hold at the nearest available station. Would I be better off ditching the Probe altogether and fitting the Thrasher for scanning duties?

On a related note, I have a salvage fit saved that I use with my Thrasher for after any combats. I have two tractor beams and two salvagers alongside three 200mm AC and a Rocket Launcher for additional defence while salvaging. For simple salvaging of wrecks after combat would you recommend doing it that way?

I can fly Cruisers now so if that changes things... ?
Xerces Ynx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-02-15 14:48:44 UTC
Grakulus Silmaril wrote:
Would I be better off ditching the Probe altogether and fitting the Thrasher for scanning duties?

One word: rigs.
More words: rigs and Sisters of EVE launcher with probes.

Take a look at Gravity Capacitor Upgrade.

The main problem with using one ship for exploration is equipment. You will have to sacrifice one high power slot for probe launcher (can be refitted on the way, but some systems have no stations) and 1-3 rig slots for GCU. It can be a huge problem or none at all.
Also, if you are into complexes, one ship will prevent you from doing some of them or will make it hard. Flying a Trasher? Well, good luck clearing those 4/10. Flying a cruiser? You won't fit in 1/10 or 2/10 and lower anomalies (1.1-1.4 and 2.1-2.4) can be painful without fast scout drones (Warrior). I mean, really painful...

Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory
Trik Eriker
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-02-18 21:28:32 UTC
Okay so I use this fit on my Thrasher and it is brilliant...thanks mxzf

[Thrasher, LowSP Explorer]
Damage Control I
Gyrostabilizer I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Codebreaker I

200mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
200mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
200mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
200mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
200mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
200mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager I

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

Now though I have a question. Will basically the same equipment work on the Rupture or Stabber cruisers?

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large Axeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Analyzer II or Codebreaker II as situation needs

425mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
425mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
425mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
425mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion S
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager II

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade i
Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II


The Stabber has one extra Low slot and the Rupture has 4 extra Low slots that I have no idea what to put. in them...assuming this is a good fitting.

It still would work as the thrasher does for exploring. Scan for sites to see what I want. Mark the sites then head back to put in a codebreaker or analyzer if I need one. If it is a mining site I could go in to kill any npc's then leave to fit a miner II on and remove a gun or two to make the miner fit. That way I could mine but still have a couple guns for any reappearing npcs. Low slots could possibly be fitted with expanded cargoholds if nothing else is really necessary. This is for pve only, I don't plan on pvp for a long time if ever.

Comments please....no flames please.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#24 - 2012-02-18 22:05:13 UTC
Hmm, that could work maybe. Though the Rupture is better designed for armor tanking than shield tanking. The Stabber could probably be flown like you do your Thrasher, just with an extra Gyro or maybe a Tracking Enhancer in the low.

However, if I were using a shield-tanked Min cruiser for exploring like that, I would probably use a Bellicose instead, since it has more midslots (for tank) and has plenty of drone room and they work quite well against frigs. Something like this might work (it's not ideal, but I've seen worse too):

[Bellicose, Exploring]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner
Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Codebreaker I

220mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion M
220mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion M
220mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon, Fusion M
Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior I x5
Warrior I x3

However, I wouldn't really suggest changing to a cruiser. It amounts to twice the sig (meaning you're easier to hit) and about 15-20% less speed for 50% more tank, twice the EHP and 25% more DPS; not an amazing gain for the extra size (which increases cost and prevents you from entering certain sites due to your ship's size).

If I were you, I would work towards Assault Frigates instead, they're a better upgrade from a destroyer for what you're doing. Personally, I used an Ishkur for a very long time in Angel space with great success, there were only two sites I couldn't run solo (Vigil because of the web, and 4/10 I needed additional DPS to take down the overseer).
Trik Eriker
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-02-19 00:38:05 UTC
wouldn't an assault frigate be a step backwards from my destroyer?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#26 - 2012-02-19 01:56:58 UTC
Trik Eriker wrote:
wouldn't an assault frigate be a step backwards from my destroyer?


Not necessarily. AFs are T2 frigates which are specialized for DPS and tank. They typically have very comparable DPS and tank numbers to destroyers, but move about twice as fast and have smaller sigs (meaning that they're harder for things to hit).

Their main drawback is their lower cargo space and fewer highslots (so you end up not having room for a salvager, though that's not the end of the world).

For instance, here's a Wolf that I used for Sansha exploration before I got my Loki:
[Wolf, Sansha Exploring]
Damage Control II
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Centii A-Type Thermic Plating
Capacitor Power Relay II
Gyrostabilizer II

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Codebreaker I

200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

With my skills it's 170 DPS tank and 13k EHP against Sanshas while dealing 165 DPS and moving 1023m/s with a 33m sig. It can run any Sansha site except the Vigil (and maybe the 4/10, I never tried it) without any issues at all and has more tank and gank than most Destroyers while moving faster and being harder to hit.
Trik Eriker
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-02-19 18:30:30 UTC
Okay so armor tanking now shield tanking...gonna go look at a few loadouts and play with eft a bit.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#28 - 2012-02-19 20:40:17 UTC
Trik Eriker wrote:
look at a few loadouts and play with eft a bit.


TBH, this is by far the best strategy I've ever found for figuring out fits. Since it lets you see what your skills will let you do and it lets you see how much of a performance impact changing one module for another will give you. And when it comes down to it, flying a ship that's less efficient but more fun is always better, since then you're enjoying the game more.
Trik Eriker
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-02-19 22:00:22 UTC
That is really good advice....super advice actually.

"flying a ship that's less efficient but more fun is always better, since then you're enjoying the game more"

so having gotten mxzf's approval *wink wink* I have decided that I will go for a rupture but gonna shield tank it anyway...or at least give it a try and ensure I don't kill myself in it...so here is my loadout

Gyrostabilzer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Expanded Cargohold II

10mn Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

425 mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon
425 mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon
425 mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon
425 mm Medium Prototype Automatic Cannon
Salvager II
Core Probe Launcher II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender II


With my current skills it all fits just fine so once I actually have the cruisers skills I should be good.

Effective HP 27507
Firepower 96/381
Mobility 482
Cargohold 383


Now, someone can point out my mistakes...ones I can live with I won't change...really really bad ones I will....hehehehe
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#30 - 2012-02-19 23:16:38 UTC
Well, first off, T2 rigs are rarely worth using due to their cost, typically it's best to assume you'll use T1 rigs and maybe check the market about specific ones at times.

Second, more buffer isn't always the answer when it comes to tank. Once you take damage profiles into account, resists matter a lot. For fighting angels, I would suggest trading one of the Large Shield Extenders (LSE) for an Invulnerability Field and one of the rigs to an Anti-Explosive one. That would give you much better resists against Angels and probably bump your EHP/tank up a bit.

Third, you might want to consider using 220mm ACs instead of 475mm since most of the opponents you'll be facing in that will be frigates. I haven't run the numbers on the exact difference in performance, but they should be better at hitting frigs. They trade raw damage and range for lower fitting reqs, higher ROF, better tracking, and more room for ammo (so fewer reloads). I'm not positive which would be better, but it's worth thinking about.

And finally, you should make sure to have a set of Warrior drones in there too (the light drones that do Explosive damage). The Ruppie has a 30m3 drone bay, which is room for a full set of 5 and a spare, and drones are extremely effective at dealing with frigs. Drones 5 (which gives you the ability to launch 5 drones at a time, the maximum amount (except for carriers, supercarriers, and the multi-billion ISK Guardian-Vexor)) is such a common and useful skill that it is assumed that everyone has it to 5. If you plan on ever flying anything bigger than a destroyer, get Drones 5 trained.

Overall though, it seems like a decent enough fit. Not stellar, and I'm not sure exactly how it'll work out, but definitely worth giving it a shot if it seems like it'll be fun for you.
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