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Community HATES thought of FtP but their actions push CCP that way

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#101 - 2012-02-14 11:10:12 UTC
Gordon Fell wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


...



Oh dear. Facts, arguments, CITATIONS?!

(seems a lot of effort to whack the obvious troll)



Meh, once I got started on the rant I decided to make it a blog post. ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#102 - 2012-02-14 11:19:50 UTC
Hunng Ibruin wrote:
They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it.


PLEX is not free to play. PLEX is "I get YOU to pay for MY account".

Hunng Ibruin wrote:
especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds.


I love the smell of butt-hurt in the morning. You realize that gate-camps can be avoided right? Most of the heavily camped systems are well known. Then CCP gave you an F10 button, a map that updates every 5 minutes or so, and statistics about pod kills, pilots in space, etc. Instead of whining about gate-camps how about innovating? I regularly run the gate-camps into null-sec, sometimes several times a day. I rarely get caught. And when I do it's fair enough, it means they had the skill to catch me.

Hunng Ibruin wrote:
Most of them hate everyone else who don't play the game exactly as they want them to play the game.


If you consider that many players are carebear miners/mission runners who don't affect other people's play-styles, and many other players are nullsec dwellers who really won't touch you provided you stay out of their systems, I would say that it's a very small minority that want to force you into becoming a victim. Perhaps you're just so used to being a victim that you think everyone is out to get you. We're not.

Hunng Ibruin wrote:
They will flame and outright personally attack anyone who doesn't agree with them or suggest some change that they don't agree with, civil discussion is outright impossible with most of this community.


Welcome to the internet. Remember you have to pay your ISP every month it's not free.

Hunng Ibruin wrote:
Carebears must die and be driven from the game; miners must die and be driven from the game; industrialist must die and be driven from the game; incursion runners must die and be driven from the game; wormhole dwellers must die and be driven out of their hole and also want the game changed to remove ABC because....they want to control it themselves elsewhere.


You've been listening to the goons too much. Goons =/= all of EVE. Most of us don't give a crap about carebears because we know that carebears will a) get bored and leave the game or b) figure out on their own sooner or later that there is more to EVE than carebearing - usually around the time they start maxxing out their industrial/mining skills and start training other things and realize that pvp becomes much easier when you can fit ships properly.

I won't comment on the rest of your comment - it's your opinion and you're entitled to it even if I don't agree.
Dai DIEDIEDIE
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-02-14 12:18:42 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
Dai DIEDIEDIE wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
Will it all kill EVE in the end? I hope so. It deserves it. Reap what you sow.

I hate to break it to you bud, but Eve has been running for 8 years and is still trucking. It was here a long time before you started playing and will still be here long after you have left to play pandas with Mr T and Chuck Norris.



I hate to break it to you but I pointed that out twice already. Too bad you can't read. Even when I pointed it out a few lines before your shoddy attempt to hack and drag it out of context, troll boy.

Sisohiv wrote:

Again, the game is 8 years old. CCP support the pew pew bears, they support the null bears. They have for 8 years. it's not a friendly game for Industrial alts. Its not a friendly game period. Its about meta wars, Alt wars, shanking people and if you see it any other way, you are just another victim getting in line. Will it all kill EVE in the end? I hope so. It deserves it. Reap what you sow.


8 years and still trucking despite being 'not friendly'. You can 'hope' that Eve will die because of it's 'unfriendly' nature but it won't.
You can 'hope' that CCP stop catering for PvPers and alliances but they won't. You can roll as many cry baby alts to bash CCP and troll people as you want but it won't make the blindest bit of difference. You sound v angry about something, why don't you tell us what it is?

ps are you that battleclinic guy?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#104 - 2012-02-14 16:03:28 UTC
Obviously these folks have a point.

Why play EVE when you can play a much nicer game where you only murder, assasinate, rob, gank, elimanate NPC's... cause that makes such activities a much friendlier experience.

Or if your bloodlust demands that you victimize another player, that poor fellow should immediately respawn with all of their equipment intact. Only in this way can you have a proper game that is fair to everyone regardless of their personal skills.

That way everyone is a winner, every single player is the best there is... at everything.

What a wonderful game that would be. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#105 - 2012-02-14 16:22:08 UTC
If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you.

Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak.

The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.

Mark Twain wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#106 - 2012-02-14 16:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you.

Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak.

The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.

Mark Twain wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.





Show me where the peak is

Edit: Click on the 150k link on that page, to the left. No, your other left.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#107 - 2012-02-14 16:59:12 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you.

Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak.

The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.

Mark Twain wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.





Show me where the peak is

Edit: Click on the 150k link on that page, to the left. No, your other left.


Show me where the chart is. That's "subscriptions", and CCP has not released subscription numbers in quite some time. Those numbers were published in October of last year and were released prior to that.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#108 - 2012-02-14 17:00:51 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.


I actually do log on to the server and I can say that the server feels much more active in the last couple of months. Oddly enough, that tallies exactly with the data from eve-offline...... !

Mark Twain wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.


Indeed.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-02-14 17:09:22 UTC
"Kids, if you don't eat your vegetables the boogey man will get you."

An ill conceived attempt by the OP to scare the players into playing the game the way he thinks it should be played.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#110 - 2012-02-14 17:11:34 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you.

Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak.

The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.

Mark Twain wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.





Show me where the peak is

Edit: Click on the 150k link on that page, to the left. No, your other left.


Show me where the chart is. That's "subscriptions", and CCP has not released subscription numbers in quite some time. Those numbers were published in October of last year and were released prior to that.



If you have a more accurate chart that defies mine please feel free to show it. My chart has info up until mid 2011 which to me is pretty good (as is shows the drop we had with Incarna). The guy has been holding off on the next update because he wants SWTOR in there as well. And yes, he says subscriptions and you will find his reason why, which I happen to agree with and is exactly what we need to look at in Eve's case.

So, show me where the peak is.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#111 - 2012-02-14 17:19:56 UTC
free play EVE isn't an option because of the real time skills system. Shadow training was killed because people figured out they could kill 3 months of Sub by logging out with a long skill. imagine free and freemium, where I can skill up an alt for free, then export it to a freemium, subscribed account.

If EVE is going to die, free is not going to save it. Only a better game.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#112 - 2012-02-14 17:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#113 - 2012-02-14 17:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Cipher Jones wrote:
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.



I can't contradict the fewer players claim because I don't see players in game, I see ships that belong to subscriptions. There is no way I can tell you if 10 mining barges huddled together is ten people, or one person, and I know you can't do the same. This is why we based numbers on subscriptions. Regardless of who owns what subscription it still counts as a purchased account. CCP aint got no buy one get one free deal here. Hence, the chart that I use is providing good data as it has with every game I look after. Personally he has been the best source for me for years as he gets his information from multiple sources and verifies it as best as he can.

By the way, I am surprised that you are able to cover some 5000 systems every night and personally make a head count in each one.

As for the rest, well, lets just say I'm not surprised. I knew you were going to find any reason to discredit any data shown to you and that you wouldn't be able to back any of your own claims up other than 'I saw less people in x system, game is dying'.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#114 - 2012-02-14 17:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Cipher Jones wrote:
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.


Unless your point is that "although more people are subscribing (and CCP revenue increases), fewer seem to be on at peak times", I would say his point is entirely relevant.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#115 - 2012-02-14 17:48:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:

The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people.


I actually do log on to the server and I can say that the server feels much more active in the last couple of months. Oddly enough, that tallies exactly with the data from eve-offline...... !

Mark Twain wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.


Indeed.

-Liang


That very source says tranquility has less users now than at the peak, which is what I am saying.

What you are saying is that there are more people now than a prior point in time that was not the peak.

Both scenarios can be true simultaneously.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#116 - 2012-02-14 17:49:49 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.



I can't contradict the fewer players claim because I don't see players in game, I see ships that belong to subscriptions. There is no way I can tell you if 10 mining barges huddled together is ten people, or one person, and I know you can't do the same. This is why we based numbers on subscriptions. Regardless of who owns what subscription it still counts as a purchased account. CCP aint got no buy one get one free deal here. Hence, the chart that I use is providing good data as it has with every game I look after. Personally he has been the best source for me for years as he gets his information from multiple sources and verifies it as best as he can.

By the way, I am surprised that you are able to cover some 5000 systems every night and personally make a head count in each one.

As for the rest, well, lets just say I'm not surprised. I knew you were going to find any reason to discredit any data shown to you and that you wouldn't be able to back any of your own claims up other than 'I saw less people in x system, game is dying'.


There are both apps and websites that monitor server connections. I use an app that I can see in game via the windows sidebar.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#117 - 2012-02-14 17:52:36 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.


Unless your point is that "although more people are subscribing (and CCP revenue increases), fewer seem to be on at peak times), I would say his point is entirely relevant.



the point is the chart is inaccurate due to age.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#118 - 2012-02-14 18:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Cipher Jones wrote:
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.


Ok, how about charts that actually look at the number of people logged into the server nowadays? Would that be sufficient for you?

Lets see... According to the data pulled from Eve-Offline (analyzed here: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/crucible-mission-accomplished/ ), since shortly before the release of Crucible:
- The server has 11% more EU TZ people playing (60 day rolling - its actually much higher if you take a 7 or 30 day roll)
- The server has 17% more US TZ people playing (60 day rolling, again much higher if you take a 7 or 30 day roll)
- The server has 45% more AUS TZ people playing( 60 days, higher, yadda yadda)

Graph for you: http://liangnuren.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chart_1.png

Basically: if you feel that the server activity is trending down, you're projecting... and just outright wrong.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lexmana
#119 - 2012-02-14 18:05:37 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Your chart is about subscribers.

My post says less people are on tranquility.

Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying.

Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it.

If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays.


Unless your point is that "although more people are subscribing (and CCP revenue increases), fewer seem to be on at peak times), I would say his point is entirely relevant.



the point is the chart is inaccurate due to age.


Well, that doesn't mean that it is wrong either. Also, pcu numbers are up since october suggesting that subscription numbers are also likely to be up. It is not proof but it is a very good indication that Crucible might have restored the slow and steady growth rate that EVE enjoyed for years up and until the Incarna fiasko.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#120 - 2012-02-14 18:08:01 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

There are both apps and websites that monitor server connections. I use an app that I can see in game via the windows sidebar.



I know there are, that is why I am asking you to link one.


Cipher Jones wrote:
the point is the chart is inaccurate due to age.



**cough-OP OUT** Excuse me, something in my throat.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **