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Lucius Arcturus for CSM7! **Update**

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Hedira
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
#21 - 2012-02-09 11:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hedira
Obviously, I'm a Taggart.

I've seen lots of criticism here about the books that LA likes to read. Some attacks on his age.

But I have yet to see a serious attack on the things he's suggesting.

I, Hedira, endorse Lucius as CSM7.

WH Corps: How is LA wrong? What are the better solutions? Who is offering them?
Null corps: You're already thriving in null. How does what LA is proposing hinder you? Could you benefit from these changes? If not, what's stopping you?
High Corps: How will these changes make your daily operations stutter? Why might his suggestions help you? Got better ideas?
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-02-09 14:20:08 UTC
Hedira wrote:

But I have yet to see a serious attack on the things he's suggesting.


If someone came here and posted "As the official NAMBLA candidate I'd like to buff level 4 missions" no one would be interested in discussing his ideas because:

a) that's some messed up ****
b) why would you even bring that up in an election about spaceships I mean seriously
Liberty Prime
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-02-09 14:55:38 UTC
Hedira wrote:
I've seen lots of criticism here about the books that LA likes to read. Some attacks on his age.

But I have yet to see a serious attack on the things he's suggesting.

The suggestions that Lucius has made do not appear to be related, in any way, to his philosophical ideals. Instead, I think it is fair to say that they are an accurate representation of changes that the wormhole community in general would like to see.

It will be disappointing if the majority of criticism he receives is ad hominem in nature, as seems to be the case currently.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-02-09 15:14:09 UTC
GUYS IM A CAPITALIST AND I LOVE AYN RAND, NOW HERE'S SOME STUFF ABOUT WORMHOLES

*everyone dogpiles the objectivists*

WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CAPITALISM AND AYN RAND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY THREAD

dude's entire first para is about rand and capitalism, this is itself proof that he has no political sensibilities whatsoever and will be an ineffective CSM member

~hi~
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#25 - 2012-02-09 16:50:53 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
GUYS IM A CAPITALIST AND I LOVE AYN RAND, NOW HERE'S SOME STUFF ABOUT WORMHOLES

*everyone dogpiles the objectivists*

WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CAPITALISM AND AYN RAND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY THREAD

dude's entire first para is about rand and capitalism, this is itself proof that he has no political sensibilities whatsoever and will be an ineffective CSM member



******* objectivism, man. Such a naive and painfully destructive worldview.
Tark en Chalune
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-02-09 20:04:57 UTC
The Mittani wrote:


dude's entire first para is about rand and capitalism, this is itself proof that he has no political sensibilities whatsoever and will be an ineffective CSM member



He was being honest about his personal philosophy, and where he is coming from. Yes, he is a member of a corp that has been filled with conservative/libertarians since EVE beta.

It's hardly a surprise that a group of individualists have decided to form galt's gulches in wormhole space, instead of forming a large collective to seize portions of nullsec ... you do what you consider fun in this game. Why bother to play if you aren't enjoying what you are doing?

Your ad hominum attack is a bit amusing and hypocritical. The philosophy of the people he plays and associates with makes him no less effective than that of someone who is part of a group of folks that spend a lot of time parodying and trolling folks from, say, an internet forum?



Taggart has been in WH space for a very long time, since they were spanked out of null way back when. Lucius has developed a good rep as an honest broker of developed wormholes, and Taggart is now just about the only broker in EVE for them. This is a sound basis for choosing him as a candidate to promote wormhole space issues and fixes.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#27 - 2012-02-09 21:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Tark en Chalune wrote:

Your ad hominum attack is a bit amusing and hypocritical. The philosophy of the people he plays and associates with makes him no less effective than that of someone who is part of a group of folks that spend a lot of time parodying and trolling folks from, say, an internet forum?


Ad hominem. And yes, objectivism essentially disqualifies you from being an effective representative. Seriously, no sane person on the planet would trust a human being who believes in rationalized selfishness (or rational self-interest, for those of you who get offended when its called what it is) to hold their best interests to heart. It is fundamentally incompatible with the philosophy.

I'd take a guy who has proven he can guide a massive coalition of thousands of players and mold it into a highly cohesive, organized fighting force while maintaining individuality and ensuring its members have access to a good time over some selfish nobody who lives in a wormhole any goddamn day of the year. It really sends a message when an anarchic socialist builds and maintains something literally hundreds of thousands of times more important and powerful than the guy whose entire philosophy is based around selfishness and production.

Tark en Chalune wrote:

Taggart has been in WH space for a very long time, since they were spanked out of null way back when. Lucius has developed a good rep as an honest broker of developed wormholes, and Taggart is now just about the only broker in EVE for them. This is a sound basis for choosing him as a candidate to promote wormhole space issues and fixes.


What. No. Being a broker has absolutely nothing with being a political representative. Nothing whatsoever.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2012-02-09 22:32:21 UTC
Tark en Chalune wrote:

He was being honest about his personal philosophy, and where he is coming from.


while being honest about his glaring defects is commendable it does not erase those glaring defects
Tark en Chalune
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-02-10 02:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tark en Chalune
Akirei Scytale wrote:

Ad hominem. And yes, objectivism essentially disqualifies you from being an effective representative.


If you feel that forcing others to sacrifice their efforts for your political/social goals is laudible, then yes, he would not represent you well.



Akirei Scytale wrote:

What. No. Being a broker has absolutely nothing with being a political representative. Nothing whatsoever.


It means that folks he has done business with trust him to keep his word. I suppose this is an instant disqualification for political office then?
Tark en Chalune
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-10 02:53:55 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Tark en Chalune wrote:

He was being honest about his personal philosophy, and where he is coming from.


while being honest about his glaring defects is commendable it does not erase those glaring defects


So a philosophy that demands that you not expect others to sacrifice themselves involuntarily for your personal gain is a defect?

OK then.

Your honesty is also laudible.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-02-10 02:56:19 UTC
Best wishes! May the best bootstraps win.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-02-10 02:58:48 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Tark en Chalune wrote:

Your ad hominum attack is a bit amusing and hypocritical. The philosophy of the people he plays and associates with makes him no less effective than that of someone who is part of a group of folks that spend a lot of time parodying and trolling folks from, say, an internet forum?


Ad hominem. And yes, objectivism essentially disqualifies you from being an effective representative. Seriously, no sane person on the planet would trust a human being who believes in rationalized selfishness (or rational self-interest, for those of you who get offended when its called what it is) to hold their best interests to heart. It is fundamentally incompatible with the philosophy.

Why would someone be offended that "rational self-interest" is sometimes called "rationalized selfishness"? Ayn Rand herself penned a book titled The Virtue of Selfishness, and made frequent use of both terms. I don't understand.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Tchaikav
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-02-10 03:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchaikav
Akirei Scytale wrote:
And yes, objectivism essentially disqualifies you from being an effective representative. Seriously, no sane person on the planet would trust a human being who believes in rationalized selfishness (or rational self-interest, for those of you who get offended when its called what it is) to hold their best interests to heart.


Politicians: Power hungry objectivists hiding themselves in ranks of socialistic society. They tout a "for the people" view while in fact are looking out for only themselves and their interests. They lie to their followers to make the largest possible group happy. Their attempts to appease the masses drives them and their followers into mediocrity.

I say it does not disqualify you at all. It may in fact be a requirement. I like a person who can be honest about their selfishness and clearly states his interest. You can trust him to look out for himself and do what he thinks best for himself.

He represents himself, a WH pilot that wants to see some changes. If you want the same changes that he wants then vote for him. If you want the same politicians keeping the status quo, maintaining their empires then vote for those that wish for nothing to change.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#34 - 2012-02-10 04:24:02 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

Why would someone be offended that "rational self-interest" is sometimes called "rationalized selfishness"? Ayn Rand herself penned a book titled The Virtue of Selfishness, and made frequent use of both terms. I don't understand.


I've met quite a few objectivists who didn't take kindly to being called selfish pricks.

Tark en Chalune wrote:

If you feel that forcing others to sacrifice their efforts for your political/social goals is laudible, then yes, he would not represent you well.


I wouldn't expect an objectivist to understand a concept like "mutual benefit", to be honest. Forcing others? Far from it.

Tark en Chalune wrote:

It means that folks he has done business with trust him to keep his word. I suppose this is an instant disqualification for political office then?


It is irrelevant. Political positions demands a very specific skillset. The ability to argue a point clearly, the ability to motivate listeners, the ability to tell a story. Things entirely unrelated to being a broker.

Tchaikav wrote:

Politicians: Power hungry objectivists hiding themselves in ranks of socialistic society. They tout a "for the people" view while in fact are looking out for only themselves and their interests. They lie to their followers to make the largest possible group happy. Their attempts to appease the masses drives them and their followers into mediocrity.


This is hardly true in every case. Hell, quite a few politicians consistently vote against their own opinions (which they had stated publicly before) because they believe their position exists specifically to be an extension of their constituents.
Viriato Pulo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-02-11 06:08:43 UTC
It's as simple as to ask yourselves whether his program makes sense and is desirable. Any other considerations are fait divers launched by people with different (and dare I say it - selfish) agendas.

The suggestions make sense and would make operating my wh that much easier. Therefore LA has my support. ' nough said.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-02-11 06:14:31 UTC
if you people didn't hide in a wormhole i'd burn you to ashes with even more gusto than i would a corp of furries

actually maybe i'll have your wormhole found and you purged, had i known of your existence earlier i'd have done something

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-02-11 06:15:07 UTC
and i'm sure two step doesn't appreciate the competition for wormhole votes, either

~hi~
VCBee 2fast2furious
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-02-11 14:50:24 UTC
not sure which is the more horrible part of the OP; objectivism, or wanting T3 frigates.
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-02-11 17:23:12 UTC
VCBee 2fast2furious wrote:
not sure which is the more horrible part of the OP; objectivism, or wanting T3 frigates.



Objectivism by a few hundred light years.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-02-14 15:40:56 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
if you people didn't hide in a wormhole i'd burn you to ashes with even more gusto than i would a corp of furries

actually maybe i'll have your wormhole found and you purged, had i known of your existence earlier i'd have done something


I'm willing to alarm clock this op if it happens.
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