Ships & Modules

T2 ships become something that can be insured.

Then what happens?

More T2 ships get blown up.
Demand goes up.
More T2 ships are produced.
Minerals go up a little.
Isk is added to the game with each one blown up.
Mineral prices go up a little.

All ships including T1's cost a bit more.

Not good for keeping newer players in the fights.



How to fix:

Insurance should be done like it is in real life.
With each ships cost for insurance and coverage amount based on past isk take ins and payouts for that ship style.
The goal should be for the insurance companies to actually break even on isk.
Everytime insurance expires for a ship of that style the price for insurance would fall and for everytime it explodes while insured it would go up.
Simple version is the insurance system needs a market solution.

The question is not if 1 T2 or T3 can be afforded for PVE.
The question is if their replacement cost is reasonable for regular use in PVP by the non super ISK rich.

150-200 mil+ per ship loss with modules uncovered by insurance is something half of players don't care about losing regularly?
Doesn't sound correct. That amount is still very substantial to many people.

fun with t2....flown right and some luck you can disengage from the fight. Part of pvp is knowing when to gtfo (usually learned after learning not to take bait).

Now for the flipside...this is your average cost for a tier 3 BS full fit. Some races got lucky here....their tier 3 is thier only fleet bs (ex caldari rokh). Same price tag....almost none of the benefits. It can't gtfo quick. Once primaried, you are primaried by everyting but the kitchen sink. Death comes quick and easy. POst insurance nerf these too aren't worth insuring half the time lol. And its lots of mods lost. And 3 large rigs aren't cheap either (well the must have ones on most fleet fits).

The take away.... pvp is an expensive hobby even at t1. Learn to mix the carebear with the pew pew and its not so bad.
Also learn ratting/missions is not the only way to make money. Ever wonder why 0.0 types have empire alts? Ratting gets old fast lol.

Someone please call Forum Tag Protection Services. This man is abusing his italics tags and they should be taken away from him.

Perhaps those players don't die every time they undock? Ever think of that one?

Not true, expensive ships often see use when they are numbered and loose few because they plan out their fights better.

That is a pretty small subset.

Yet Cynabals, Vigelents, Vagabonds, Deimos, Zealots, Recons / Logi and T3's go down all the time.

Untrue that is one of the best parts of EVE. Rush PvP is the boring part. Planing out your moves 3 jumps ahead, scouting and spying, using fleet counter tactics to maximize effectiveness these are the best parts of EVE. Fairness and Pointless Bloodshed is for Arena Combat while EVE works like a War. You counter their cowardliness, trap their numbers and tear them to pieces despite all of the preparations they made to win.

Oh yes it is. You do risk your ship because the enemy setup is designed to break your safety, murder your Falcons, Ceptors, Logi and leave your range gang at point or their DPS at Range.

This is the greatness of EVE not cheap losses but the constant struggle for superiority through tricks and traps designed to surprise and counter. That is better then any mindless mash up of ISKnet defended ships any day. EVE is about wins and loss, how you go about forcing that is the good part.

It's a lot quicker to lose the cruiser than it is to make the ISK to buy it, however. Someone with 3 weeks of skill training can support themselves and afford to lose a lot of T1 frigates. They cannot afford a bunch of 35 mil losses, nor can many players afford 10 of them in a row in a short period of time.

That fitted rupture is inexpensive compared to HACs, Command ships, or BS's, but that doesn't mean it's "cheap" for everyone.






It doesn't work like this. People who want to PvP will PvP in anything available - if we had nothing but noobships and industrials, people would be out there fighting in them. The limiting factor is the willingness to PvP, not the cost. A lot of people simply don't have the balls to do it, so they sit around in highsec and perfect their uber-shiny missioning ship and dual-box salvage techniques. They might tell themselves they'll go PvP when they "have enough money", but they never will.

The only thing cheaper T2 ships will give you is more people PvPing in T2 ships, not more people PVPing.

Yep it's substantial as it should be, it's not T1.
At 200mil it's still affordible although it may be on the expensive side of affordible.
If T2 is a bit too pricey for you get a faction cruiser or a T2 frigate.
Many players in eve run around with a good 5bil or more sometimes much more.
In the what is rich in eve forums the number currently seems to be running around 20-25mil in isk/assets to be rich. (( wealthy is a far higher number))
Average player can afford to pvp in T2 from time to time just not all the time if all they do is pvp.
You lose half your mods when blown up. Other half are in space. If you win half the time you average only losing half the cost of mods since you pick up half of your opponets mods.

Make more isk, Get better at pvp, Don't be lazy and you too will soon find that T2 is easy to afford in pvp.
Cross faction is used by some of the more well to do players even in pvp. (( You will see multiple cross-faction bs's in 0.0 fighting ))

If you survive eve a couple more years you will look back at this entire thread and realize your just bitching about nothing.

not all are being super cautious, some are just being smart. I think you are associating pvp with run in and die like a muppet.

Your 50 on 1...works both ways. Eve has a decent sized list of potential bait ships. Ships that turn 1 on 1's into 1 on 50's real quick. While I am sure not all arazu's have uber bait tanks, covert cyno with 10 friends nearby ready to come through it I have not met one yet. After a few muppet deaths...solo arazu I leave alone unless cornered. Even with better insurance I'd leave it alone. Not partial to dying like a muppet and padding kill stats in a fight I learned in time is best left avoided. I can get mindless pvp like this on SWTOR currently. Rush, die, rush die, rush die.....up until the map is won or lost. The fun factor of this coming from eve wore off in minutes flat (last I did this crap was in warhammer over 2 years ago....forgot what its like with inconsequential pvp). Play well....play like ****. Don't matter, nothing is lost either way.

Which is kind of why t2/t3 is setup the way it is. Its "premier" level pvp for lack of better wording. It should could come with the string of you need to think before you leap. FC has a muninn gang spec'd for caldari hunting needs to think before he springs them on heaps of minmatar ships. Could win or enemy could run barrage/rf and tear them to shreds. FC or solo player takes that chance, the consequences good or bad are a part of that choice.