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Hr Mesetas for CSM - EVE needs a Stockmarket!
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-02-13 19:53:59 UTC
i support this ideas as i support all ideas that make it easier to separate idiots from their money
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-02-13 19:57:19 UTC
Start a corp with alts from your real corp, advertise a special investment method that gets 25% returns, buy 5% of shares with your main for 500m ISK (implying the corp is worth 20 bil), let people buy shares, close the corp, grab and run, repeat indefinitely.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#23 - 2012-02-13 20:08:54 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
eve doesn't need a stock market, there's no securities regulation, and every 'bank' in eve is a scam

hope this helps

I agree with you on the bank scam, but i think EVE needs a stock-market. Sure its not vital for the game, but it would be a very cool feature, because at the moment, sharetrading and payouts are completely based on trust. Thats why EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security and the regulations that follows.
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#24 - 2012-02-13 20:09:46 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Start a corp with alts from your real corp, advertise a special investment method that gets 25% returns, buy 5% of shares with your main for 500m ISK (implying the corp is worth 20 bil), let people buy shares, close the corp, grab and run, repeat indefinitely.

25% ? - then people would know its a scam.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-02-13 21:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: HELIC0N ONE
Hr Mesetas wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
eve doesn't need a stock market, there's no securities regulation, and every 'bank' in eve is a scam

hope this helps

I agree with you on the bank scam, but i think EVE needs a stock-market. Sure its not vital for the game, but it would be a very cool feature, because at the moment, sharetrading and payouts are completely based on trust. Thats why EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security and the regulations that follows.


No, that's the exact reason that it doesn't need anything of the sort.

What you're saying is that trust based on player-driven relationships as we have currently is a bad thing, and that Big Brother CCP needs to step in and prevent dishonest behaviour. That's like saying that CCP should make it impossible to shoot players with blue standings or to dishonour a 1v1 combat by bringing friends.
OldMan Gana
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-02-13 21:37:54 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
eve doesn't need a stock market, there's no securities regulation, and every 'bank' in eve is a scam

hope this helps


Lol- post of the day mate :)

Love United- Hate Glazer
Di Mulle
#27 - 2012-02-13 22:14:10 UTC
Hr Mesetas wrote:

I agree with you on the bank scam, but i think EVE needs a stock-market. Sure its not vital for the game, but it would be a very cool feature, because at the moment, sharetrading and payouts are completely based on trust. Thats why EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security and the regulations that follows.


You are putting a cart in front of a horse.

Stock market will not ensure anything solely by itself, except its' own emptyness and uselessness.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#28 - 2012-02-14 02:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Last time I checked, CCP Games is privately own and therefore not part of the stock market. Other than that, I like the idea about incorporating a stock market into New Eden.


You should take the part about CCP being privately owned to heart. Everything in the game is privately owned as well, so it wont be part of the stock market. That means no stock market.

Just go play X3 the new expansion. There is a stock market in that game for you to tool around in and buy capitals.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-02-14 02:39:38 UTC
Hr Mesetas wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Start a corp with alts from your real corp, advertise a special investment method that gets 25% returns, buy 5% of shares with your main for 500m ISK (implying the corp is worth 20 bil), let people buy shares, close the corp, grab and run, repeat indefinitely.

25% ? - then people would know its a scam.


It works in real life vOv

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Akhillez
Sons-of-Liberty
#30 - 2012-02-14 03:12:57 UTC
Well for one, obviously you wouldn't be able to steal much money without a good track record, so if you stole a little it wouldn't be much different the losing the bet on penny stocks in rl stock market, let idiots gamble their iskies away I say.

For two though, here's a thought. Consider revamping the bounty system. Make it a function of the contracts rather than a public bounty system. Its useless as it is now, but if a person made a name for himself as a bounty hunter, this would be a way to keep corpmates and such from taking advanage of the bounty system. A CCP mail should be sent to the person who placed the bounty contract with exactly what was destroyed in the encounter. Perhaps with a minimum amount of "tax" paid to concord int he contract, you could even skirt their interference during any hisec encounters.
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#31 - 2012-02-14 04:39:51 UTC
Di Mulle wrote:
Hr Mesetas wrote:

I agree with you on the bank scam, but i think EVE needs a stock-market. Sure its not vital for the game, but it would be a very cool feature, because at the moment, sharetrading and payouts are completely based on trust. Thats why EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security and the regulations that follows.


You are putting a cart in front of a horse.

Stock market will not ensure anything solely by itself, except its' own emptyness and uselessness.

The point of a stockmarket is not to ensure anything, but to expand trade options. No offence, but i think you´re missing the point here.
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#32 - 2012-02-14 04:46:17 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Hr Mesetas wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
eve doesn't need a stock market, there's no securities regulation, and every 'bank' in eve is a scam

hope this helps

I agree with you on the bank scam, but i think EVE needs a stock-market. Sure its not vital for the game, but it would be a very cool feature, because at the moment, sharetrading and payouts are completely based on trust. Thats why EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security and the regulations that follows.


No, that's the exact reason that it doesn't need anything of the sort.

What you're saying is that trust based on player-driven relationships as we have currently is a bad thing, and that Big Brother CCP needs to step in and prevent dishonest behaviour. That's like saying that CCP should make it impossible to shoot players with blue standings or to dishonour a 1v1 combat by bringing friends.

Good point. What i want is the possibility to buy and sell shares the the market. Sure you can scam people - close the corp and take the isk, but as Akhillez says you need a good trackrecord to do that.
Aineko Macx
#33 - 2012-02-14 07:27:49 UTC
I was wondering when we'd see a 'trader' candidate. Ofc, without a broader platform this will not happen, tho...

The Mittani wrote:
eve doesn't need a stock market

We need it + derivatives so we can crash the markets harder.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Johan Krieger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-02-14 07:36:37 UTC
Basically you should just withdraw your candidacy right now, because you aren't going to get elected and you are literally wasting your time.

Also lol stockmarkets.
Di Mulle
#35 - 2012-02-14 13:58:06 UTC
Hr Mesetas wrote:
The point of a stockmarket is not to ensure anything, but to expand trade options. No offence, but i think you´re missing the point here.



No offence, but you should improve your wording then: " EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security ".

Then again, complete absence of security is very important but not the only one problem. There are others which together lead to a very fundamental problem - the one that all the shares in EVE are essentially worthless.

I may understand you saying "I want just another simulation in this game". Tbh, I would like it too, just I realise that it will be born dead and nobody really will use it after some time, therefore it is hardly worthy of a dev's time.
Btw, there was some player-run stock market, AFAIK it is effectively dead. It happens not because there is no formal stockmarket.
If you think it is stockmarket which gives value to the shares, you have a horse and a cart problem again. Stockmarkets exist because shares, at least considerable part of them, are worthy by themselves. In EVE, they aren't.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-02-14 14:18:34 UTC
Akhillez wrote:
Well for one, obviously you wouldn't be able to steal much money without a good track record, so if you stole a little it wouldn't be much different the losing the bet on penny stocks in rl stock market, let idiots gamble their iskies away I say.


Max Abramoff had a great track record.

In any case, Eve barely has a commodities market. Complex financial instruments and markets can really only exist in societies with sophisticated laws and intelligent enforcement thereof, neither of which exists in New Eden, nor should such things exist in this game. I doubt most corporations even distribute their shares.
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#37 - 2012-02-14 22:59:12 UTC
namron 7 wrote:
i notice that the goons maybe hijacking this thread for no reasonBig smile

Yeah - they are probably scared of thing they don´t understand!
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#38 - 2012-02-14 23:03:16 UTC
Aineko Macx wrote:
I was wondering when we'd see a 'trader' candidate. Ofc, without a broader platform this will not happen, tho...

The Mittani wrote:
eve doesn't need a stock market

We need it + derivatives so we can crash the markets harder.

Derivatives is much more complicated of what i have in mind. A market to buy and sell shares - thats basicly it (with modifications)
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#39 - 2012-02-14 23:07:48 UTC
Johan Krieger wrote:
Basically you should just withdraw your candidacy right now, because you aren't going to get elected and you are literally wasting your time.

Also lol stockmarkets.

A classic Goon comment Smile You still havn´t figured out what this is all about. Read the first post, and reply with a snappy comeback better than this one.
Hr Mesetas
Domain Trade Corp
#40 - 2012-02-14 23:17:33 UTC
Di Mulle wrote:
Hr Mesetas wrote:
The point of a stockmarket is not to ensure anything, but to expand trade options. No offence, but i think you´re missing the point here.



No offence, but you should improve your wording then: " EVE needs a stockmarket to ensure security ".

Then again, complete absence of security is very important but not the only one problem. There are others which together lead to a very fundamental problem - the one that all the shares in EVE are essentially worthless.

I may understand you saying "I want just another simulation in this game". Tbh, I would like it too, just I realise that it will be born dead and nobody really will use it after some time, therefore it is hardly worthy of a dev's time.
Btw, there was some player-run stock market, AFAIK it is effectively dead. It happens not because there is no formal stockmarket.
If you think it is stockmarket which gives value to the shares, you have a horse and a cart problem again. Stockmarkets exist because shares, at least considerable part of them, are worthy by themselves. In EVE, they aren't.

As it is now, your right - shares are more or less useless. They are ineffective because there are there without a reason. Shares in the real world work because they have value. Yes, in EVE you can use shares the determine votes, but without payouts, they are of no value to investors. Thats why if shares where on the market and corp history and economics were avalible to the public then : bad corp = bad shares value and vice versa.