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Fuel Blocks & Production numbers
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Slavemaster
ICC - Information Control Corporation
#1 - 2012-01-25 19:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Slavemaster
.. The numbers don't add up

With a PE 40, max skills you can produce 19200 per day: That will fuel a large POS for 20 days.

The Problem here is that the Production is to slow to meet demands. The Mats are there, but it impossible
to get out the numbers that "EvE" needs.

There are not that many who can produce 10 Jobs with 10 BPO`s 24/7. And the few who can will only produce
192 000, a drop in the ocean.

It cost a lot of isk, just to start the show. And not every noob in town can do.

My point is that CCP must have done some bad calculations here, and the only reason why the prices has not
gone skyhigh is weeks of production before the Patch, or that the sellers don't get it.

To be dramatic we can within a month get Fuel blocks cost 3X of what it is today, because of lack
of productions slots for the Indi players. And within days later a Patch that will cut down form 3 min, to 1.5 Min.

Feel free for some Input, comments but for me this seems impossible. In others words Fuel blocks are so
underrated in price, that its just a matter of days before it hits the roof.

I repeat its not the lack of Mats but the lack of players, (number of jobs) able to produce them

Oo
Gatan Hahran
Brukterer
#2 - 2012-01-25 20:45:25 UTC
According to your own numbers a guy with 1 account (30 production slots) can produce enough fuel to keep 600 large towers or 1200 medium towers running.
I dunno how many towers there are in eve, but a handful of producers could already be enough to cover all demand.
Slavemaster
ICC - Information Control Corporation
#3 - 2012-01-25 21:06:06 UTC
Gatan Hahran wrote:
According to your own numbers a guy with 1 account (30 production slots) can produce enough fuel to keep 600 large towers or 1200 medium towers running.
I dunno how many towers there are in eve, but a handful of producers could already be enough to cover all demand.


11 is max.

Oo
Gatan Hahran
Brukterer
#4 - 2012-01-25 21:24:24 UTC
Slavemaster wrote:
Gatan Hahran wrote:
According to your own numbers a guy with 1 account (30 production slots) can produce enough fuel to keep 600 large towers or 1200 medium towers running.
I dunno how many towers there are in eve, but a handful of producers could already be enough to cover all demand.


11 is max.


i wrote 1 account, not 1 char :)

so that would be 30 max or 33 if he wants to go for lvl 5 adv. mass
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-25 21:33:49 UTC
If you have a tower, you likely have some sort of assembly array.
You buy the BPO that matches your tower.
Tada! You have your fuel blocks for the month in no-time.

If you're in high-sec, use an NPC station to build your fuel.
The numbers look like (using NPC station slots), 159,600 units per slot, costing around 2b isk in materials.

Fuel Block builders for market are competing with each other for lazy POS owners.
Slavemaster
ICC - Information Control Corporation
#6 - 2012-01-25 21:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Slavemaster
Gatan Hahran wrote:
Slavemaster wrote:
Gatan Hahran wrote:
According to your own numbers a guy with 1 account (30 production slots) can produce enough fuel to keep 600 large towers or 1200 medium towers running.
I dunno how many towers there are in eve, but a handful of producers could already be enough to cover all demand.


11 is max.


i wrote 1 account, not 1 char :)

so that would be 30 max or 33 if he wants to go for lvl 5 adv. mass


Ok for the one or two in EVE that has that will be ok Smile

The problem is that it cost around 3.8, 3-9 Per day in
mats. To keep it going 24/7 you need 10 Bpos, and a minimum of 20 Bil in cash.

- You dont get Isk while in Production
- To keep things going 24/7 you need mats for days

Oo
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#7 - 2012-01-26 02:44:19 UTC
If you own a tower, anchor a component array for a day. 2000 batches of POS fuel blocks at a component array takes 2.54 days (109.7 seconds per batch). Which means that I can produce 787 hours of large tower fuel every day (32.8 days worth).

It's very much manageable and is not really impacting hi-sec slot production at all.
Menia Merdan
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-26 13:22:57 UTC
Assume that all Towers are Large ones and there are no Faction Towers or Towers receiving Sov Bonuses.

We know there are less then 20k Towers online
=> At most 20k Batches per Hour required.

Build time is about 3 Minutes
=> 20k*3/60 =>1k Lines needed

So worst case (which we are FAAAR away from) you get 1k Lines needed, distributed over all of EvE.
(Thats 20 Highsec Stations).
If you then take into Account that many get a consumption bonus/are smaller then Large it quickly goes down farther.

Substract the ones that will produce in some remote Region/their own tower ... where exactly does that not add up?

If you take a highball figure and say 30% of that Demand has to supplied through Market Hubs, you get 300 Production Lines.
Thats a whole 30 Characters. Yeah insane there sure won't be enough people to fill that gap Roll
hellscure
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-26 15:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: hellscure
33,3 Accounts (with 3 chars/10slots non stop) to be exact.

And following CCP_Diagoras I'd count there to be more or less than about 15 764 on lined towers in the eve uni.
Not differentiating between sizes and types.
So.. les than 25 accounts could supply the market.
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-27 00:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Buruk Utama
Fuel block prices have crashed in the last day with some nasty wars as 100k chunks are thrown up and these are bot manned heavily. They aren't moving very fast which indicate people already stocked or are building their own or have no ideal and will cry when their tower suddenly off lines.

On a related note, if you need blocks email me and we can work something out.
C1unk
C1unk Corporation
#11 - 2012-02-13 15:23:04 UTC
Slavemaster wrote:
.. The numbers don't add up

With a PE 40, max skills you can produce 19200 per day: That will fuel a large POS for 20 days.

The Problem here is that the Production is to slow to meet demands. The Mats are there, but it impossible
to get out the numbers that "EvE" needs.

There are not that many who can produce 10 Jobs with 10 BPO`s 24/7. And the few who can will only produce
192 000, a drop in the ocean.

It cost a lot of isk, just to start the show. And not every noob in town can do.

My point is that CCP must have done some bad calculations here, and the only reason why the prices has not
gone skyhigh is weeks of production before the Patch, or that the sellers don't get it.

To be dramatic we can within a month get Fuel blocks cost 3X of what it is today, because of lack
of productions slots for the Indi players. And within days later a Patch that will cut down form 3 min, to 1.5 Min.

Feel free for some Input, comments but for me this seems impossible. In others words Fuel blocks are so
underrated in price, that its just a matter of days before it hits the roof.

I repeat its not the lack of Mats but the lack of players, (number of jobs) able to produce them


Looking at it, and the figures, it is somewhat a bit confusing on the "new pos fueling" methods. As I understand it, it takes 20 fuel blocks per hour for just a medium POS?. Correct me if I am wrong, but the figures required for just 1 fuel block is the same as what it use to require to run a POS for just 1 hour. So if you need 20 fuel blocks per hour which I have been informed it actually is, then I can not see how this makes things efficient and certainly is not cost saving in anyway shape or form. For a starters the 3x cost you stated is vastly low, it is more like 20x more expensive now to fuel a POS because of this ridiculous requirement of 20 fuel blocks per hour. Again you might correct me on that 20 fuel blocks per hour, because when I sore it, I was shocked at why CCP would add such a thing, when it was working fine as it was.

Unless you have an army of PI accounts, and I mean an army, CCP have just made pos management which was already a pain in the butthole a lot more inefficient and considerably more expensive. Who makes these decisions exactly?, it is another terrible decision, hikes up the prices throughout considerably, and just adds in a huge amount of work that the original method of fuel pos requirement did not.

WHY CCP, why do you keep changing things that already worked.

C1unk
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#12 - 2012-02-13 16:29:17 UTC
Dunno about the above but I am managing my POSes just fine.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#13 - 2012-02-13 17:22:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost Hamster
C1unk wrote:

Looking at it, and the figures, it is somewhat a bit confusing on the "new pos fueling" methods. As I understand it, it takes 20 fuel blocks per hour for just a medium POS?. Correct me if I am wrong, but the figures required for just 1 fuel block is the same as what it use to require to run a POS for just 1 hour. So if you need 20 fuel blocks per hour which I have been informed it actually is, then I can not see how this makes things efficient and certainly is not cost saving in anyway shape or form. For a starters the 3x cost you stated is vastly low, it is more like 20x more expensive now to fuel a POS because of this ridiculous requirement of 20 fuel blocks per hour. Again you might correct me on that 20 fuel blocks per hour, because when I sore it, I was shocked at why CCP would add such a thing, when it was working fine as it was.

Unless you have an army of PI accounts, and I mean an army, CCP have just made pos management which was already a pain in the butthole a lot more inefficient and considerably more expensive. Who makes these decisions exactly?, it is another terrible decision, hikes up the prices throughout considerably, and just adds in a huge amount of work that the original method of fuel pos requirement did not.

WHY CCP, why do you keep changing things that already worked.

C1unk

If you would look up the BPO, then you would have noticed, that during one prod. cycle you produce 40!!! fuel block, which is good for 2 hour in a Med POS.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#14 - 2012-02-13 22:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Slavemaster wrote:
.. The numbers don't add up

With a PE 40, max skills you can produce 19200 per day: That will fuel a large POS for 20 days.

The Problem here is that the Production is to slow to meet demands. The Mats are there, but it impossible
to get out the numbers that "EvE" needs.


SNIP

I repeat its not the lack of Mats but the lack of players, (number of jobs) able to produce them



Yup.

After this initial 'stockpile' is gone.........things are going to get interesting. And prices will go skyhigh on these blocks.

So glad I make all the PI and mine the Ice for my own. It's 'free' and with tremendous profit. With excess PI materials, and basing production on the amount of Heavy Water I have (I only buy the 'other half' of the LO), already there is a nice profit from the Block sales AND the excess Isotopes. Big smile

Liquid O is the new Bottleneck ! yay.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#15 - 2012-02-13 22:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
C1unk wrote:


Looking at it, and the figures, it is somewhat a bit confusing on the "new pos fueling" methods. As I understand it, it takes 20 fuel blocks per hour for just a medium POS?. Correct me if I am wrong, but the figures required for just 1 fuel block is the same as what it use to require to run a POS for just 1 hour. So if you need 20 fuel blocks per hour which I have been informed it actually is, then I can not see how this makes things efficient and certainly is not cost saving in anyway shape or form. For a starters the 3x cost you stated is vastly low, it is more like 20x more expensive now to fuel a POS because of this ridiculous requirement of 20 fuel blocks per hour. Again you might correct me on that 20 fuel blocks per hour, because when I sore it, I was shocked at why CCP would add such a thing, when it was working fine as it was.

Unless you have an army of PI accounts, and I mean an army, CCP have just made pos management which was already a pain in the butthole a lot more inefficient and considerably more expensive. Who makes these decisions exactly?, it is another terrible decision, hikes up the prices throughout considerably, and just adds in a huge amount of work that the original method of fuel pos requirement did not.

WHY CCP, why do you keep changing things that already worked.

C1unk



This is the apology from CCP for what they did to Low Sec PI profits by letting the Goons control the Import/Export Taxes......AND the higher PI taxes also in High.

A much needed injection of profit for me Big smile

In other words, those of us who whined (and I mean me too) about Low Sec PI changes are now getting our financial out....and by using the High Sec PI stations to boot. lol. It was really CCP just moving around a particular industry.

And honestly, every single one man Corp and it's Dog 'has to have a POS'. Frankly there are WAY too many out there, and it's long past time for some to come down. I know more than a few Alliance leaders who have already cut back on towers , especially after crunching numbers and realizing what cost 250,000,000 a month for a Large Tower is now 425,000,000 and climbing.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2012-02-14 03:32:44 UTC
Slavemaster wrote:
.
My point is that CCP must have done some bad calculations here,

SNIP



Oh no.....CCP knows exactly what they are doing. See above.

Although it IS amusing how the amount of Isotopes needed per run is exactly 420 Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2012-02-14 03:59:38 UTC
For what it is worth, I only need to refuel two large control towers.

Last evening I manufactured two months of fuel (699 * 2 runs) with five BPO (PE 60) and a Component Array. It took about 8 hours.

I think this is well within the realm of a large POS owner's capabilities.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#18 - 2012-02-14 15:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Tau Cabalander wrote:
For what it is worth, I only need to refuel two large control towers.

Last evening I manufactured two months of fuel (699 * 2 runs) with five BPO (PE 60) and a Component Array. It took about 8 hours.

I think this is well within the realm of a large POS owner's capabilities.



Cool. No really. But that's about all you will do ingame...and how much did YOU pay for all that Liquid O ????
Just wait till next month Twisted

And if you did not pay....why don't you HONESTLY tell us just how long it took to get ALL that Ice needed????? That's WAY more than a few days even of SOLID ice mining. In fact it's a WOW - OMG amount of mining.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mongo Travler
Recreational Hazards
#19 - 2012-02-14 20:45:10 UTC
I would think most POS owners (myself included) keep large stores of excess fuel so that we can ride out the peaks in the market and buy at the bottom. However, I have been modifying my sell orders to keep up with current fuel prices. This way I can pad my profits for when I do have to go buy fuel again.
Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
#20 - 2012-02-14 21:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bath Sheeba
I run 1 POS and it takes me about 22 hours with BPO(ME40 PE240) 1 line(or 5.6 hours 4 lines) to make enough fuel for a month.

Now put into consideration, I buy about 4000 ice cubes, refine them(perfect refine) and sell the excess(940k isotopes and 100k heavy water) at market prices, and use the rest to make the fuel blocks.

It is cheaper than buying the LO and HW and isotope from the market and keeps my large (gallente) POS fuel at about 369,000,000 ISK per month(give or take).

Now granted I need to spend about 700milion ish ISK to buy all those blocks, but not a big deal as I get a large part of that back after selling the excess ice mats.

Cost is a big factor and the reason I have to buy that many blocks is to cover the LO hole in high sec ice.
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