Ships & Modules

Everything's relative of course but the point still stands, PvP is needlessly expensive at the moment. Making PvP less costly is one important step to bring back life into solo and small gang PvP. Even a mere Vexor with rigs, T2 modules and drones will run a player a sizable chunk of isk, more than enough so to discourage most new players (and in this game a player who's played for several months is still considered 'new' in this game) from trying their luck.

I think there are many other things that can or even should be done to revitalize non-alliance PvP and the lowsec regions. There's more to this game than just alliance business, highsec carebearing and suicide ganks but it sometimes seems forgotten.

As for the Trasher and AFs, the MSE fit I just cooked up as a benchmark sports 8.4k EHP and deals 335 DPS using Hail (+ small neut). That's with an mwd, point and cheapo shield resistance rigs (with extenders you get up to 9.1k EHP). Considering how it costs around a third of a fitted Harpy that's pretty damn impressive.

PVP is not yet an extreme luxury. There are still relatively cheap alternatives at present, but it is a short respite.
The writing is on the wall that PVP is headed to be much more expensive.
Now, T3 is not common. But it will be! It is already happening.
In a few years time, the skies of EVE will be flooded with T3 cruisers.
Good luck to killing them with AFs and BCs then.

Think about what happened in the frigate class.
The Rifter at 1/2 mil ISK was competitive to some degree.
Now the AF at 25 mil ISK (50 TIMES THE PRICE) has utterly obsoleted it.
PVP inflation perfectly illustrated.
The same inflation is happening in the cruiser class.

The NH could use a little love, but its main problem is that the drake performs the exact same role with nearly as much effectiveness for a tenth the price.

As I said before, when the terms nano and sniper are being used more often to describe BCs than HACs, we have a problem. BCs have gone past the point of stepping on the toes of HACs, and have taken to simply trampling all over them. And here's the thing: HACs are well balanced in a game without BCs. When you compare them to t1 cruisers, to BSs, command ships, recons, bombers and pretty much any ship class in the game, they don't seem to broken. Compare them to BCs, and they seem useless. If you have ONE ship class that needs a buff when compared to BCs, then sure, argue that said class needs a buff. But when you have BCs that obsolete multiple other classes, that's not the rest of the game needing a fix, that's BCs.

There will ALWAYS be things that are under/overpowered, I choose not to deal with it, because without people like me (and indeed, people like you) the game would stagnate, and get very boring very quickly.
It's literally doing the exact same thing, and in an entirely reasonable scenario no less. Claiming to have fought 20+ guys when you only really fought 4 is BS, no better then those scrubs who only ever fly in 1000 man fleets and act like their 90% k/d ratio is impressive.

If you get under the guns of one of the jags, you could literally tank the other one until you run out of cap boosters. Jag vs harpy was no contest even before the buff.

This is actually a reasonable premise (good on ya, mate!)...

...Except inasmuch that (I believe, anyway)...well, call it "gear-inflation..." is going to happen sooner or later. I submit that CCP has done a much better job of controlling it in EVE than most other games-designers ever do in other MMOs.

I would not be averse, necessarily, to the ti-2 BCs needing a higher base-skill commitment than ti-1s and cruisers.

Maybe re-tool them as Tech II instead of Tier-2, and the corresponding production-costs passed down to any prospective pilot, along with a more specialised--IE a more explicitly designed-in "offense-only" role, requiring the higher base skills, and good support-skills to make full use thereof?

Trouble with that is:

1) You have a lot of newer players using BCs in PvE--you need one to do level 3 missions, on your way to level 4 missions, and 4/10+ deadspace complexes, to name just two PvE applications in which nost players start making "real" money with any degree of consistency--bollocking this up will massively **** off a lot of subscribers, and that's not somewhere CCP needs to go again anytime soon. The Incarna debacle is still all too fresh, and this playerbase, I've noticed, has a very long collective memory.

2) The success of this re-tooling would be largely--and, arguably, entirely--contingent upon properly buffing both Ti-1 BCs and cruisers, the latter of which especially are screaming for buffs to address their systemic deficiencies.

3) Command-ships, especially the "tank-and-spank" Field-Command versions. These will probably need a significant offensive and defensive buff in turn (Ohaidere Mr. Nighthawk, and Ms. Absolution! So nice to see you again!), along with, I suspect, increased skills and material-costs to keep them in the "rarefied territory" that CCP seems to envision for them.

I could see this working--assuming (1) can be absorbed--but I also can see this just moving "gear inflation" to a higher level. Not eliminating it, just staving it off for a while longer.

To do this successfully, it would be absolutely imperative to buff cruisers to somewhat where Ti-2 BCs are now, IE low-ish entry requirements/cheap-ish to purchase, but having the versatility to grow with a player for a long time to come as their skills and knowledge improve.

This is why BCs, especially Ti-2 BCs are so popular: Their incredible room to grow with a pilot, as well as their incredible versatility that they maintain throughout a pilot's career.

As EVE stands at present, this is why they should not now, and should never be nerfed unless CCP makes deep, systemic changes to not just the other classes--IE makes them better by making them better, not nerfing something else that works to make them look better--but also a whole passel of other things that inform this.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?

Fake-edit:

Just so we're absolutely clear: "DRAEK IS OP!!!1111!!oneoene11!" faeces-hurling howler-monkeys can go drink ****. You are expected to reason your way through this, or you can just sit the f down, and STFU!

I believe that this is false. imo Nano HACs would be pretty sweet right now if all tech1 Battlecruisers suddenly disappeared. This is kind of a silly argument regardless, and while I do agree that HACs and especially T1 Cruisers need love, I just think that you are incorrect in saying this.

It's funny that the ships that are supposed to be for rookies are some of the hardest to fit. Destroyers, T1 frigates and T1 cruisers are disturbingly hard to fit.

I created a Gallente alt 5 months and 12 days ago. To date she has perfect gunnery support skills and is halfway through navigation. Yet there are still basics like signature analysis as well as tanking, overheating, rigs, ect. I feel sorry for those trying to get into the game.

^^ That. So true.

-Liang

OK.

Specially Gallente.

After starting with that crap I have good skills for damn near everything that increase cap stability, reduces grid and computer, solid drones, and good gunnery skills.

Too bad I haven't flown a Gallente ship for anything but guard duty in months.

Fixed.