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The Mittani, CSM7 Chairman: Our work is not yet done.

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Valearx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#321 - 2012-02-13 15:02:46 UTC
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Valearx wrote:
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Andski wrote:
I think racist language in chat channels is something you'd want to address with the GMs rather than the CSM.


Yes, I agree, which is part of the problem. However the GM's seem to be pretty much impotent when it comes to this.


I think you confuse impotency for policy. This is a game where players are encouraged to steal/scam/be as piratical or paragon as we want. I imagine that name-calling is pretty low down the priority list given the amount of skulduggery that goes on, and the inevitable strings of pubbie expletives directed at the robber/scammer that follow. Bans are still handed out when GMs deem it necessary. As Bannedski said, its a matter for the GMs not the CSM. If you don't like what's being said in local, petition it and wait for a response, ignore it, minimize it or go somewhere else. If fleetcoms offend you, then maybe its time you found another corp/alliance. EVE's uniqueness lies in the sandbox and the freedom given to its players, and that's what separates it from other MMOs (all of which coincidentally impose stringent chat regulations vOv).


Policy is to ban from local for a number of hours if certain things are said but as I stated, its more widespread and its not enforced, its easily circumvented.

In my example, when a fleet of 300 people is asked to write "N" "igger" to specifically avoid CCP's policy don't you think that is a problem? That isn't scamming, or cheating people out of ISK, that isn't any form of meta game, its not the sandbox, its not even in game 'acceptable' greifing, its just casual racism en masse.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some up tight guy who is all about political correctness but there are limits.

This is why I think its a CSM issue. Its generally accepted that in EVE you can be a racist bigot. Not an in character one (don't tell me they're in character!) but just one in general.


And there you have it. Casual racism isn't limited to EVE and for the most part its light-hearted with the intent of annoying anyone who finds it distasteful. The internet isn't suddenly going to change its spots simply because CCP orders it to do so, and the increase in hours spent by GMs enforcing the associated warnings/bans would be phenomenal.

Once again, this is a matter for Customer Service, not the CSM. If you stumble upon a fleet fight and suddenly local fills up with stuff that you deem offensive, by all means petition it, but don't ask the CSM to waste their time on it - time that they and 99.99% of EVE would much rather be spent on improving content and gameplay.

Vote Mittani
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#322 - 2012-02-13 15:17:54 UTC
+1

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Major Spag
State War Academy
Caldari State
#323 - 2012-02-13 15:43:03 UTC
Rei Seiji wrote:
Major Spag wrote:
Rei Seiji wrote:
The Goonies leader actually needs votes? I always figured he'd automatically win his spot thanks to his hordes of loyal minions.


A mouthbreathing ****** actually posting badly? I always figured they automatically shitpost to themselves because they don't really have friends!


Touched a nerve there, hm? So tell me, do all Goonies care about respiration, or is it just a personal interest for you?


You should keep posting. Your insightful comments are highly sought after and provides the community with wisdom that will span ages.

I am so mad at your internet forum post. Hella mad. I should go rant about it on another forum and talk about how mad you have made me.
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#324 - 2012-02-13 15:45:49 UTC
Rei, you should see how mad he's posting about you on goonfleet.com
Captain Jazzmag
No Hot Ashes
#325 - 2012-02-13 16:07:44 UTC
Valearx wrote:
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Valearx wrote:
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Andski wrote:
I think racist language in chat channels is something you'd want to address with the GMs rather than the CSM.


Yes, I agree, which is part of the problem. However the GM's seem to be pretty much impotent when it comes to this.


I think you confuse impotency for policy. This is a game where players are encouraged to steal/scam/be as piratical or paragon as we want. I imagine that name-calling is pretty low down the priority list given the amount of skulduggery that goes on, and the inevitable strings of pubbie expletives directed at the robber/scammer that follow. Bans are still handed out when GMs deem it necessary. As Bannedski said, its a matter for the GMs not the CSM. If you don't like what's being said in local, petition it and wait for a response, ignore it, minimize it or go somewhere else. If fleetcoms offend you, then maybe its time you found another corp/alliance. EVE's uniqueness lies in the sandbox and the freedom given to its players, and that's what separates it from other MMOs (all of which coincidentally impose stringent chat regulations vOv).


Policy is to ban from local for a number of hours if certain things are said but as I stated, its more widespread and its not enforced, its easily circumvented.

In my example, when a fleet of 300 people is asked to write "N" "igger" to specifically avoid CCP's policy don't you think that is a problem? That isn't scamming, or cheating people out of ISK, that isn't any form of meta game, its not the sandbox, its not even in game 'acceptable' greifing, its just casual racism en masse.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some up tight guy who is all about political correctness but there are limits.

This is why I think its a CSM issue. Its generally accepted that in EVE you can be a racist bigot. Not an in character one (don't tell me they're in character!) but just one in general.


And there you have it. Casual racism isn't limited to EVE and for the most part its light-hearted with the intent of annoying anyone who finds it distasteful. The internet isn't suddenly going to change its spots simply because CCP orders it to do so, and the increase in hours spent by GMs enforcing the associated warnings/bans would be phenomenal.

Once again, this is a matter for Customer Service, not the CSM. If you stumble upon a fleet fight and suddenly local fills up with stuff that you deem offensive, by all means petition it, but don't ask the CSM to waste their time on it - time that they and 99.99% of EVE would much rather be spent on improving content and gameplay.

Vote Mittani


So CCP or the CSM shouldn't take a stand on it? So its OK to be abusive about someone's ethnic background because other people on the internet might do it? Slippery slope from a number of angles no?

I'm well within my CCP allotted right to ask a prospective CSM member there take on this and if it might be something they'll bring up with CCP. I'd like Mittani's take on it, not someone from his alliance. I can do that on Goons Jabber or Mumble.

Also it doesn't have to take up allot of CCP's time, there's plenty of ways to skin a cat. CCP already has the ability to monitor chat/local logs for instance.
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#326 - 2012-02-13 16:13:22 UTC
hey, play eve how you want and stop being judgemental towards people who are different. if you don't like naughty words, there are lots of family-friendly groups to play with. it's not our job to be the pottymouth police, especially in 3rd party applications that CCP has no control over.
Macharion Thelgamor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2012-02-13 16:48:34 UTC
Thanks in no small part to CSM 6 and its chairman who collectively helped prevent this great universe we inhabit slump into a terminal failure cascade of it's own doing, this once disillusioned and resigned pilot who turned his back on Incarna returned in Crucible to find EvE heading back onto a path which once made it so enjoyable.

A successful political wartime campaign fought on behalf of all pilots active or otherwise garnered great and positive change. The reward should be another year as chairman to effect a consolidation process and will reveal whether, in what will hopefully be a less turbulent year for EvE itself, the CSM can maintain the relevance it's rightly earned and find ways to improve our collective experience, with particular reference to FIS - let's see it remain a key focus for the year to come!
Phigmeta
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2012-02-13 16:49:35 UTC
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Reported to CCP. Added to my ignore list.

Hope whatever insecurity issues you have can get solved.

rodyas wrote:
So there is an all black fleet going around calling each other N iggers.


Unlikely. I don't believe its common to X up in fleet with your racial heritage before setting out. In examples I could cite, its certainly not been a requirement.

rodyas wrote:
that is common among what they do.


Thanks for proving a point. Roll



OH please god not the thought police.

OK let me give you a little story, I have been crowned "the Offical Jew" in SMA. Couple of reasons actually but mostly because i can spit out the profit margins of about anything the alliance does with a quickness. (that and i have been known to loot an active battlefield) Are my alliance members being racist towards me ....

... well no because I am actually jewish for one. Does this mean that they are planning a hatemongering campaign?

BTW I am russian jewish in heritage so .... i geuss i should hate all them "mericanz" or something.

I have lived all over the world and broken bread with many of the "average folk" (though most of them are not in the least bit average) and i have learned one thing that seems to hold true.

The people whom are most bothered by "racist" words are the same people that would lose thier marbles if thier daughter was to date someone who is "not like them" I think its the part of them they hate to admit so they cover it up with public outcry when they hear someone saying what they have themselves been thinking.
doombreed52
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#329 - 2012-02-13 18:41:02 UTC
in short to what was said above.

either grow up and deal with it or get out.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#330 - 2012-02-13 19:00:35 UTC
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
Hey Mittani, more of a question of ethics in EVE than mechanics of EVE which I think the CSM needs to tackle.

What are you going to do about the general level of racism or at least casual use of racist language in EVE? Its now become socially acceptable in EVE to be derogatory towards Jews and its starting to become acceptable to racially abuse people and use derogatory racist language in general, in game chat without any sort of punishment.

It certainly doesn't do much for the image of the game when fleets of people in Null Sec are being asked by the FC to type "N" then "igger" in local chat during fleet fights, in order to circumvent the chat usage policy of CCP. No names of any sort mentioned but I don't think I need to.

I do think CSM 6 was the best CSM yet and certainly enjoyed the fruits of it but I don't think the level of racist language (and anti-semetic) by players in public channels (well any channels but each to their own) does anything for the game, CCP or the players. It certainly made me question which backwards thinking people I'm playing EVE with.


The CSM isn't CCP's cop, any more than an alliance leader is an unpaid GM. The playerbase of eve is almost comically racist and misogynistic, from an American perspective. In Europe it's apparently common and uncontroversial to speak openly of 'Jews', not to mention the Scandinavian lack of sensitivity on Things Racial. Because EVE is an international game you end up with a lot of delicate sensibilities being rubbed the wrong way.

Example: Americans think nothing of slagging on Germans for that whole World War 2 thing, but ~how dare~ you mention Germany in front of a German EVE player. An American will get offended at a racist joke that at Dutchman won't even blink at, between Zwarte Piet and the fact that TurboNegro is literally a popular metal band, but god forbid that you criticize every American's sovereign right to invade and bomb whoever the hell we feel like while stockpiling personal arms caches and making little pillow fortresses out of Bibles.

The point, dear NPC alt, is that everyone in this game is basically a jerk and is going to get butthurt about something. It's a culture-clash thing, not a CSM issue.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#331 - 2012-02-13 19:12:41 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Well, after 16 pages of fawning over the 'great CEO' (I feel sick) maybe its time to actually ask some serious questions instead of just voting with your eyes closed.


How do you feel about 'roleplaying' that glorifies slavery, racism, and religious intolerance?

I feel sick.

Quote:
So Mittens, great job on the last chairmanship. You really did do a great job!


I did, yes.

Quote:
Please tell us some of the things you'd like to see changing during the next CSM term.


Well, before CSM7 takes office in April most of the work on the next expansion is likely to be done. Soundwave has mentioned in blogs/interviews that this will include a wardec/crimewatch revamp, as well as work on FW.

Most of my position discussion can be found in the Chairman's Office thread. With many of the sucking chest wounds patched with Crucible (DRINK), I'm now pushing for the infamous Modular POS proposal, the rebalancing of risk/reward in null, EAS ships being able to impact ewar immune ships, more iterative balance of 'forgotten' hulls, etc. A whole batch of things that the CSM pushed for are in the pipeline but not implemented yet, as well, such as new Rookie Ship models. These are not controversial positions; most of the white-hot controversy surrounded supercapital rebalancing a few months back.

Quote:
Secondly, although I love the visceral nature of EvE and totally agree that non-consensual pvp must remain a key part of it, I do think that it is too difficult for new starters to get into pvp.

What is your opinion on this?
Do you think EvE should have a better mechanism for getting new starters into pvp?
Or do you think that this is just self-selection at work, and those that do like it shouldn't be here anyway?


It's actually very easy to get into PvP. We have pilots killing inside of three hours of installing the trial. A lot of people who 'want' to PvP don't actually want to - they make a bunch of self-imposed barriers to themselves actually doing it, then blame other people/the system for their lack of courage. There's newbie organizations that teach PvP outside of Goonswarm and TEST, too - Agony Unleashed, Eve Uni, etc.

Loss aversion is a powerful instinct. Most 'aspirational pvpers' want things handed to them on a platter; EVE PvP is difficult and if you're not willing to work to seek it out, it's easier to bleat excuses.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#332 - 2012-02-13 19:23:33 UTC
wallenbergaren wrote:
Maybe this has been answered, but I know you're probably the most outspoken against supercaps out of the people running for CSM, so I'm wondering what your ideas are for fixing the problem permanently. Not just another band aid that postpones the inevitable as supercap numbers keep growing year over year. They must have a role that allows them to function even if there's 15000 of them ingame.


I don't think there's a permanent solution. Supercapitals are CCP's Original Sin - actually, no, that's the T2 BPO Lottery.

Actually, no, it was hiring T20 in the first place.

Hrm.

Ok so: After hiring T20, who designed the T2 BPO Lottery and handed out Sabre BPOs, and after the Lottery itself, Supercapitals are CCP's 3rd biggest boo-boo. There's not going to be any grand solution that offers a permanent fix to the Supercapital Problem.

The /best/ solution is to bring supers into the normal gameplay dynamic of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Right now the only counter to a blob of supers is a bigger blob of supers. In other areas of gameplay, ship classes of various types counter one another: Abaddons counter Drake Blobs, Drake Blobs mess up an Alphafleet, Alphafleets kill Abaddons, Bombers murder all of the above, Hurricanes murder Bombers.

To address the lack of Rock/Paper/Scissors in Super-land, I support two things: a siege mode mechanic for Titans analagous to Dreads, which would significantly reduce their ability to blap newbies in afterburning rifters (this happens with alarming regularity) while leaving them a solid counter to massed capital blobs. Secondly, I'd like to see Electronic Attack Ships be able to impact Ewar Immune ships, so the neglected EAS can abruptly ruin a Titan's day by messing with the tracking of his guns. EAS are made of paper and can be killed by even a tiny escort of support ships - R/P/S balance.

I wish we could turn back time, kick the dev who thought Titans up in the nuts repeatedly, and have them Abruptly Never Exist. But we can't, and a lot of pilots have supercaps now as an endgame ship. Supers need to be given a narrow, defined role - anti-capital weapons - and stop being a one-size-fits-all solution to everything in EVE.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#333 - 2012-02-13 19:30:00 UTC
Agnostos Theos wrote:

What worries me is the number of 'personalities' arrising out of the ranks that seem more interested in tearing down each-others reputations then they are in providing any real input towards the future of EVE.
Given that the next CSM is unlikely to be as polarised in it's goals nor (hopefully) will it have such tremendous idiocy on the part of CCP to argue against, how do you plan to work with a group which (from observation of many currently running platforms) are ellected to the CSM with the sole purpose of being there to annoy the **** out of you ?
Whilst everyone, myself included, might get a laugh out of thinking about what the CSM would be like with Mitt and Riv forever playing who's got the biggest ego and the most influence, I hate to see the CSM become as irrelivant as it once was simply because some clever word-smiths can't help but play juvenille games against each-other rather then look at the game they SHOULD be trying to protect and guide.
I've addressed this to you Mitt because if you don't make it to CSM then something, somewhere has seriously ****** up and I'll be surprised if you don't hold the chair.
I used Riv as an example only because of the mutual animosity between your factions.
In reality I'd like to see all the potential candidates veiws on how they intend to work with their fellow CSM members....

Sincerely AT


I've been keeping a close eye on the actual levels of support for each candidate, compared to their perceived support. So far it looks like it's going to be a good crew in the top 14. I've been staying above the fray because the biggest competition is for slots 6 and 7, as well as the long tail of 13/14. Candidates like Riverini and Xenuria are jokes, and they've been put on the ballot with 100 likes just to splinter the ballot/protest the use of +likes as a nomination method.

I'm confident that I can make CSM7 a functional entity, just as CSM6. If I can get along with Trebor and find common ground, I can do so with anyone.

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#334 - 2012-02-13 19:32:29 UTC
Macharion Thelgamor wrote:
Thanks in no small part to CSM 6 and its chairman who collectively helped prevent this great universe we inhabit slump into a terminal failure cascade of it's own doing, this once disillusioned and resigned pilot who turned his back on Incarna returned in Crucible to find EvE heading back onto a path which once made it so enjoyable.

A successful political wartime campaign fought on behalf of all pilots active or otherwise garnered great and positive change. The reward should be another year as chairman to effect a consolidation process and will reveal whether, in what will hopefully be a less turbulent year for EvE itself, the CSM can maintain the relevance it's rightly earned and find ways to improve our collective experience, with particular reference to FIS - let's see it remain a key focus for the year to come!


I do expect CSM7 to be a lot easier than CSM6. There should be no more Incarna war; most of the parties involved with Incarna or the NeX aren't with the company after the 20% purge. Ideally I'll be able to settle into something of a caretaker role and just make sure that nothing ******** happens, like CSM5's jump bridges moment.

~hi~
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#335 - 2012-02-13 19:33:18 UTC
killstealing approves (+1)
ORJI
Clan Shadow Wolf
Tactical Narcotics Team
#336 - 2012-02-13 20:05:26 UTC
+1

Good luck bro and great job with CSM6.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#337 - 2012-02-13 20:15:04 UTC
Despite the public persona and not really *needing* your votes, Mittens is actually a pretty chill dude and doesn't speak on things he has limited knowledge about. I didin't mind him being a chair before, and I wouldn't again.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
tewkz
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2012-02-13 20:26:14 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Despite the public persona and not really *needing* your votes, Mittens is actually a pretty chill dude and doesn't speak on things he has limited knowledge about. I didin't mind him being a chair before, and I wouldn't again.


Hmm. I'm blue with mittani and I mean, **** all HYDRAS. It's telling that someone from an alliance I wouldn't mind seeing fall apart supports the same candidate as me.
SkiD-MaRk
Wambulance
#339 - 2012-02-13 23:24:02 UTC
Got my vote. Dont agree on everything. But you always seem to have a decent grasp on what you bring too the table. That is more then I have seen in all the rest but one other.

+1
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2012-02-13 23:27:27 UTC
You're forgetting that he understands basic human interaction too! I've even seen it happen!




~My CEO~ for CSM 7