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Community HATES thought of FtP but their actions push CCP that way

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Valei Khurelem
#41 - 2012-02-13 17:37:59 UTC

Quote:
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience


I've always loved this excuse :P

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-02-13 17:47:24 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience


I've always loved this excuse :P



39k online says that EVE is a niche product.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-02-13 17:54:40 UTC
The OP makes two cardinal errors in his original statement;

1. Factual errors, if you are going to make a claim you need to back it up by facts - not feelings or hearsay, or your opinion. You need to present your argument with solid, irrefutable data. Which leads to the second cardinal error.

2. Using the forums as a representation of the community as a whole, while in some ways it is a representation of a category of players (namely the ones who are vocal/verbal/outward) it is in and of itself a misrepresentation. Drawing subjective conclusions that validate your own view by selectively reading forum content is making your statement furthermore flawed.



tl;dr

OP. You are wrong.

Ronald Reagan: I do not like Sweden, they support communism. Minister: Sir, but Sweden are anti-communist, Sir.  Ronald Reagan: I do not care what kind of communists they are.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2012-02-13 17:58:43 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.


EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.



Technically yes but only because it's a year older than WOW which by most metrics laughs in every other MMO's face


WoW has the numbers, EVE wins the awards.

Quality > quantity
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-02-13 18:02:09 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience


I've always loved this excuse :P

It's a fact.
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-02-13 18:03:59 UTC
I for one like free to play. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have $15usd/month to put into a "video game".

When I worked for (cencored) a lot of our players were from overseas and didn't have a lot of money and most were finding it hard to come up with cash just to use computers at internet cafe's ect. Free to play option = WIN for all.

I pay monthly... however a lot of people I fly with or around pay by isk and if they couldn't, I wouldn't have the opportunity to fly with or around them.

my 2 isk.
Johanne D'Arc
Rhine and Courtesan
#47 - 2012-02-13 18:13:07 UTC
Hunng Ibruin wrote:
They are all elite pvp'ers and very hardcore in their own minds, especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds.


Stopped reading right there. Either a stupid troll or just a clueless carebear that needs to get a grip.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-02-13 18:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience


I've always loved this excuse :P

Well, you say it's excuse, explain why?

It would seem self-evident that fantasy style, avatar based, theme-park style games appeal to more players than sci-fi, non-avatar, non theme-park based game (in the mmo genre)..

Plenty of shooters, etc., out there set in various degrees of "hard / soft sci-fi", but not many MMO's. And of those, Eve is the only non theme-park style that I"m aware of. Eve only *recentlly* went to a "full avatar style" - which was a dismal failure at best because it was released as a "single player addon with no content" in an MMO.

So it seems pretty "niche" to me.

But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, what other non avatar based, non theme-park style MMO's are out there?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-02-13 18:26:38 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
HTFU GO BACK TO WOW LOL LOL I DINT EVEN READ THE OPPPP Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile

Oh yeah like golly gee whiz.... Idiot...
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-02-13 18:29:38 UTC
Dielax wrote:
I for one like free to play. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have $15usd/month to put into a "video game".


Personally, if a person has monetary issues that spending $15 usd/month (or any amounts in any currency) is going to be a hardship, then worrying about playing a "video game" should not be on their list of spending priorities.
Sarpadeon
Rebirth Industries
#51 - 2012-02-13 18:31:19 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience


I've always loved this excuse :P


EVE online is basically the definition of a niche game

are there any other TRUE single shard persistent worlds out there?

are there any other which not only allows ganking players and stealing their stuff, but encourages it?

are there any other games in which any plot points by CCP take a backseat to anything the players are doing to eachother? The Great War, GHSC etc?

is there any other game that allows anything nearly as cutthroat as EVE allows? Corporate spying/theft, sabotage, backstabbing, scamming, assassinations, mercenaries, wardecs etc?

they are the some of the reasons EVE has such a small playerbase, but they are also the reasons EVE is such a good MMO, they make it stand out from the MMO crowd, but also limit its playerbase, IE niche.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-02-13 18:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Eve is already FTP for some.


EVE won't succed as "real" f2p game


Considering players are dumb enough to pay real money for ISK and purchase characters already I'd say it would do far better than most people would think.

You are one of the dumbest yappers on the forum these days, so you know about dumb...

Dielax wrote:
I for one like free to play. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have $15usd/month to put into a "video game".

When I worked for (cencored) a lot of our players were from overseas and didn't have a lot of money and most were finding it hard to come up with cash just to use computers at internet cafe's ect. Free to play option = WIN for all.

I pay monthly... however a lot of people I fly with or around pay by isk and if they couldn't, I wouldn't have the opportunity to fly with or around them.

my 2 isk.

I bet your one of those in rl who thinks that the taxpayer should be gouged to pay for all the stuff you want to do but can't afford and dammit it, it's your RIGHT to have some too...
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-02-13 18:43:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.


Actually, EVE's growth has been pretty flat for the last few years.

(Then again, MMORPG-World King of the Hill WOW has sputtered out too...)
Tore Vest
#54 - 2012-02-13 19:26:53 UTC
Good post
Spot on Bear

No troll.
Vangelios
#55 - 2012-02-13 19:42:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vangelios
Hunng Ibruin wrote:


I could go on but you know what I have stated isn't just hyperbole, it is by and large reality. This community is incredibly self-destructive and loathsome. If it isn't in your hands it deserves to be blown up/stolen/griefed/etc. until the person who has it gives up. War decks, can flipping, suicide, gatecamps, theft are all tools to accomplish this goal. In the end you post for the "tears" and could care less how the other person feels or if they leave the game; in-fact most of you will cheer even louder if you cause someone to quit the game.



I think that problem is not in eve-universe. It's just a sand-box game (and a good one), and by restricting such behavior,
you would damage a sand-box imho.

This is due our civilization-mindset, people are prone to violence in general, just watch RL news and you'll know where I'm pointing at. Just take a look at games that our children are playing (Battlefield3 is just a game, but it's all about killing others)

We are usually ignorant material beings, obsessed with material gain, ready to wage wars on our brothers, just for heaving different ideology or mindset, or just for fun, putting their guts on poles just to show that we are kings of universe?

Yet in distant future of eve-universe, capsuliers still have mindset of 21st century humankind (or human-child).

... Each small candle Lights a corner of the dark...
Shukuzen Kiraa
F4G Wild Weasel
#56 - 2012-02-13 19:48:13 UTC
2bhammered wrote:


F2P done right would not kill it, only make it grow. I suppose they would have to make another server perhaps though to cope with increased population but then I guess the "one server, one world" would be gone?! Hmm, tough question, is too many players bad for eve online?


F2P always means Pay to Win. No matter how you want to look at that, its a bad thing. There are no good FREE MMO's. My point is there is no "right" way to do F2P
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-02-13 19:50:04 UTC
your an idiot if this game was FtP everyone would have like 10 accounts doing very specific things.

CCP would never be stupid enough to go full FtP.

pleas go back to panda land where you belong

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#58 - 2012-02-13 21:17:08 UTC
I could see a F2P future for EVE where Free Players accumulate Skillpoints at 1/4 or 1/5th the current rate (i.e a 1 day skill would take 4-5 days). By paying for a WoT'like "Premium" Account, for $15.00 or so, you would get the current speed of skillpoint gain.

Makes the game free to start and tryout (albeit slow as hell, an issue easily fixed by increasing starter skills of course).

Toss in the Pay-store for Ship Skins, New Hull Skins (i.e. Alt. Scorpion makes a Scorp look like the old one with updated textures, for example), Weapon Skins (all skins only, buyer must posess a base-hull to put the skin on, ensuring "sandbox marketplace: isn't overly hurt), etc. Clothing for Avatars in some magical WiS future. Hopefully no Pay-to-Win Ammo or Pay-Only Ships, but I could (honestly) see them go that route too a la WoT (Lowe's in Space).

It could work fiscally if EVE were a new release, but longstanding existing community rage over MT's would probably kill the game before letting it happen tbh.

Guess time will tell.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#59 - 2012-02-13 21:19:34 UTC
If it wasn't for FTP we wouldn't have HTTP today, and thus would not be having this conversation.

Show some f****** respect. It's not like this is a ratio server.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Kuroi Aurgnet
Cry Of Death
Almost Underdogs
#60 - 2012-02-13 21:33:10 UTC
the real reason it wont work is shown in this thread alone. It is kinda like the original thread post said, everyone expects a game that is tailored perfectly to their individual needs. There will never be a game that makes all of its players happy. Someone will always come in whining about how they can't do this, or can't do that. If CCP made it F2P then a ton of people would start rage threads about how it will "lower quality". If it stays Pay2Play, people will complain about that too, saying "oh, well this person or that person can't AFFORD that" and to that i agree with the post that says if you can't afford it then it shouldn't be a priority. I also agree that a F2P will end up somehow making it so the free players will have such a big disadvantage, that they will whine and complain about it. Geez, we should stop these flaming threads over such trivial issues and try to get something more productive going, dontca think?


Bottom line: "trollers gunna troll". Always.

Just that hint of cynicism the world needs now and then.