These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

War Declaration Proposal: Security Nullification Array
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#81 - 2012-02-12 19:08:03 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Kelduum has a much different definition of "very much public" than the rest of us, apparently.
Yeeees but...
I'm posting here because I wouldn't enjoy this SNA thing (me). Because it would hurt badly the sandbox (EVE). And because I'm trying to understand what Kelduum really wants to do when he'll become CSM (and I have no doubt he'll get enough votes, sadly).
You're just posting here because you don't like EVEuni and Kelduum. At least, try to participate a bit.

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
As Ruby pointed out it all comes out to what your definition of a war is.
For me at least it involves some pewpew Big smile, but I admit that there are interesting ways of psycho warfare. I just not think they should be covered by a warfare-mechanic.
I wardeced people just because I was willing to send them that message.
I wardeced people just because I was willing to make them lose time and money fueling and defending their POS.
I wardeced several corps just because I knew they would panic (and they unanchored their POS. And I ninja-stole them).
Wardecs aren't "pewpew".

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
As I said in my first post here, I think that the pve is of great benefit for the pvp community and that means that there should be a somewhat "safer" place for doing it. Thats the whole reason why there is a high-sec at all, rather then all New Eden being 0.0.
Highsec is already far too safe.
Nobody but a few hardcore carebears and the very unexperienced players want a safer highsec. Deal with it.

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
But they intentionally decided they dont want to!
They are playing the wrong game.

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
Maybe I am not a good enough player and dont know better how to avoid that scenario
You can see your wartargets in local. You're welcome to drop your current corp and try a few wardecs, you'll see, it's not that bad. :)

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-02-12 19:13:27 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Kelduum has a much different definition of "very much public" than the rest of us, apparently.
Yeeees but...
I'm posting here because I wouldn't enjoy this SNA thing (me). Because it would hurt badly the sandbox (EVE). And because I'm trying to understand what Kelduum really wants to do when he'll become CSM (and I have no doubt he'll get enough votes, sadly).
You're just posting here because you don't like EVEuni and Kelduum. At least, try to participate a bit.
I did. Here.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=787041#post787041
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#83 - 2012-02-12 19:23:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
Second part :

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
If an overwhelming force alphas your SNA and you cant defend it, then you lost the war, dig it! In my opinion thats quite logical.
And the reinforce-mode gives you time to form up and counter it, if you are capable.
Timezone issue is an issue of the reinforcement-timer... thats 1 number to tweak around.
If not scaling your numbers by inviting mercs, then as you said (thanx for reminding me) you just join a bigger alliance and your numbers can scale dramatically.
If the defenders can alpha a SNA, it means that it's impossible to defend, so any wardec will not even begin. They are safe. Their POS are invulnerable. It's wrong.
There is no rf timer if the SNA is destroyed during the first 24h. Read again the OP post, please.
"Joining a bigger alliance" ? Yes, it would work like 00. Coalitions, blue lists, etc. Nobody wants this **** in highsec.

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
It allways comes down to the same uncertainty of not knowing exactly what you have to fight and I think thats a good thing in EvE (kind of wonder why you complained about that in the first place)
I got hotdropped enough time in EVE to know that's not exactly "a good thing in EVE". You're welcome to experience it.

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
beating up a small POS with an industral is clearly impressive (in terms of endurance) but not quite an example I had in mind when it comes to a war.
I destroyed 2 medium POS and 1 large. The 2 medium POS were defended by their entities.

Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
So maybe you guys explain me why there is a High-sec at all and why there is a pvp-mechanic in high-sec? As far as I conclude from your statements EvE would be better if it all was 0.0, no need for wardecs at all, no possibility to escape or prohibit from pvp at all. Isn't that the consequence of it?
Nobody said that. Nobody wants to get back when there was no Concord.
Highsec is a place where you won't get shot :
- unless you're hauling a treasure in a bestower
- unless you have upset someone and they wardec you. It will only be a limited force, and you can stop it by dropping your corp.
This is far different than the "FFA" in low/00/WH, where you will get shot just because you're on the same grid with someone else.


Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
People that have 90% of their SP into mining should change the game they play just because you want it to be all like 0.0?
Propulsion jamming lvl1, in 5mn. And now they can pvp.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Twisted Trucker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-02-12 21:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Twisted Trucker
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Twisted Trucker wrote:
Where do you all get off thinking "Hi-Sec" wars should be cheap/easy to do? They should be neither, for ANY "involved" party's.

Can't afford the "costs" of WARS? That's YOUR PROBLEM, and maybe you should worry more about re-thinking your "isk-making" strategy, instead of worrying about the cost of things you can't afford!

And FFS, what part of "HIGH SECURITY SPACE" do you not understand? It is NOT, and should NOT become, a FFA warzone, any time you get a wild hair up your a$$ to war-dec someone. Take your a$$ to null sec, if that's what you want!


This isn't a PVE game with a flagging system. If you want it to become that bear in mind nobody will play Eve then instead of games such as WoW, Rift and TOR.

While I agree with you the game shouldn't be FFA either, high sec wars should be very common, and highsec PvP encouraged. Current wardec system is however utterly broken (decshedding o_O), but this proposal is even worse.


Uhmm, I didn't mention anything about PVE, and you do realise that there are people that play this game just for PVE right (read industrialist's in hi-sec)?

I suppose you want CCP to run them all off, in favor of only having ELITE PVP'ers around? OBVIOUSLY NOT gonna happen!

And no, Hi-Sec wars should NOT be very common, as it defeats the purpose of "HIGH SECURITY SPACE" (ya know keeping the peace).

BUT when they do happen, it should be a VERY costly and dramatic/drastic step to take for all party's involved.

Not like now when somebody gets his panties in a bunch and shells out 50 mil in chump change to grief-dec someone, and then doesn't bother to show up for his own war-dec, THAT needs to be eliminated, and is the gist of this thread, not about the guy that is decced. I mean WTF, the guy war-decs someone, then doesn't have the guts to come out and fight. WTF IS THAT?

Again NO, not encouraged PVP in hi-sec as it defeats the purpose of hi-sec space. Ya know, we have faction popo and concord zippin around there for a reason, and it certainly isn't to encourage hi-sec PVP.

If you want PVP encouraged, then take your butt to low/null sec or WH space, which is what those areas are primarily for!
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#85 - 2012-02-12 23:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Kelduum Revaan wrote:

[...]
2. There no instances, which my definition are private. Please show me where the proposal mentions them. The whole point of it is that its very much public.
[...]



Poetic beat me to it, but:

You have a rather peculiar definition of non-instanced:

Kelduum Revaan wrote:


...The space inside the SNA bubble immediately becomes (in effect) null security space.
...No items or structures inside the bubble may be target locked from outside, and vice versa.
...Entering or exiting the SNA bubble causes any target locks to be immediately broken.



How is this "public" if members thereof can't target what's in the bubble? How is that not at least partially instanced (if you can say there is such a thing)?
How is this "public" if inside the bubble is an "effective null security pocket," vis-a-vis the security of the rest of the system?
How is this "public" if no-one else is allowed in the bubble but the fighting parties and any mercs they've hired (or did I miss something in that wall of text?).

Come to think of it your definition of "public" is also rather peculiar.

EVE =/= WoW, SW: tOR, LotRO, and about 1000 other generic MMOs that have instances and consensual PvP flagging, stop trying to turn it into those games, and just go play those games--No-one's going to stop youRoll

Ni.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#86 - 2012-02-13 00:19:05 UTC
Twisted Trucker wrote:
Uhmm, I didn't mention anything about PVE, and you do realise that there are people that play this game just for PVE right (read industrialist's in hi-sec)?

Industrialists are competing against other player for resources and in the marketplace. That is PVP.

Twisted Trucker wrote:
Not like now when somebody gets his panties in a bunch and shells out 50 mil in chump change to grief-dec someone, and then doesn't bother to show up for his own war-dec, THAT needs to be eliminated, and is the gist of this thread, not about the guy that is decced. I mean WTF, the guy war-decs someone, then doesn't have the guts to come out and fight. WTF IS THAT?

If your operations are impacted by an aggressor that phones in a dec and never shows up, then you are bad and your corporation doesn't deserve to exist.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
lol fofo
Noise Control Department
#87 - 2012-02-13 02:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: lol fofo
Intresting idea , might works but i think it will cause more issues on some other part of eve mechanic, also promoting more blobs.... but maybe can promote more merc corps too

however, it funny seeing Sambu Ballabumbu defending this argument more than keldum it self.

Sambu, do you relize that most of wardec PVP happens in gate or stations ? not only in pos. they're a lot small corps wardec med-large size corps just for guerrilla tactics and hit hauler/missioners/miner. now they also have to defend dam structure too ??? hire merc to defend ???

also ill raise another issue for an example from different angle, Do you know most pos in highsec are S&I pos being run by 3-5man alt corps . Its not because these people are loner or don't have any friends, is more because the S&I mechanic need some major fix. Anyone with factory access able to cancel other people jobs etc, so creating trust issues. how these small corps able to defend it or even afford to pay 3rd parties if it hapens daily?

actually , i stoped reading your post , when you mention " incursion runner " and check you char history
you still freshman in eve uni , quit for fewdays on january and joiend eve uni again. How you came out with all these argument and points? if eve-uni itself thinks you still a freshman ?? are you one of those carebears who actually joined eve uni simply for incursion running and making isk ? Why you left for fewdays ? scared of wardec? some one pull this guy incursion income??!!

I want to see someone from eve-uni sitting in csm , but i don't think going to happen if most freshman cmeout and post mumbo-jumbo threads without knowing the game long enough. It remind me with kelduum CSM post , where some EVE-UNI freshman actually ruining the thread by saying " Game mechanic doesn't play any important part in CSM " - that post actualy now removed by CCP.

@kelduum, i like the idea making 3rdparty somehow involves on wardec-pvp. but there are other part of eve that directly influence by this idea. i surely don't want to defend my highsec alt corp against massive blobs. i want the opportunity still be ableto do defensive with small offensive based on our pvp skills alone. I'M not hiring dam merc every time bunch of highsec carebears blobs coming for my pos. i prefer gets these highsec carebears with my pvp alt while they mining/missioning also without worrying have to call other helps to defends my own wardecposthingy.

have you calculate this idea of yours into other aspect of eve , with current limitation of S&I pos for an example?



yes, im posting using neut alt-becasue i want to stay anonymous,Im not poetic alt,

the amount of hatred eve uni toward poetic is amusing ( keep going poetic ), i think these the 2nd best reading material after carebears tears post during hulkgedon/galtente ice.

in eve-uni case just because someone posted with neut , doesn't mean its from eve-uni haters / poetic alt.
try to judge what they says not just simply from who they are. some of us have other reason why staying anonymous.
Twisted Trucker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-02-13 03:09:48 UTC
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Twisted Trucker wrote:
Uhmm, I didn't mention anything about PVE, and you do realise that there are people that play this game just for PVE right (read industrialist's in hi-sec)?

Industrialists are competing against other player for resources and in the marketplace. That is PVP.


I didn't say they don't PVP, but pa-lease, don't try to make them out to be L337 PVP'ers, cause most of them are NOT, and most are by their very nature of being "industrialists" are also PVE'ers.

Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Twisted Trucker wrote:
Not like now when somebody gets his panties in a bunch and shells out 50 mil in chump change to grief-dec someone, and then doesn't bother to show up for his own war-dec, THAT needs to be eliminated, and is the gist of this thread, not about the guy that is decced. I mean WTF, the guy war-decs someone, then doesn't have the guts to come out and fight. WTF IS THAT?

If your operations are impacted by an aggressor that phones in a dec and never shows up, then you are bad and your corporation doesn't deserve to exist.


Who says my operations are "impacted" by you phoning in a grief dec? Especially if I'm sitting on your front porch waiting for you to come out, so I can beat the ever loving dog $hit out of you in front of all your neighbors! And your lucky I can't come into your house and drag you out by your nuts and make an example of you, to not even try to f**k with me!


Hey wait, maybe that's a solution here!

You can bribe concord to ignore a war-dec on me, since you phoned them 1st.

How bout I bribe the station owner to kick your a$$ out into the street, to face what you did in bribing concord to war-dec me!

Now, there'd have to be some checks here:

1st) I would have to have standings with the station owner to be able to even bribe them, AND those standing would have to be higher than yours with them for the bribe to succeed, otherwise they'd ignore my bribe IF YOU PAY THEM to ignore it (like you did with concord for the war-dec).

2nd) If I don't have standings with the station owner or they're not high enough to bribe them, then I could pay a significantly higher bribe to the faction of the space you're in, to over-ride the station owner and kick your a$$ out of the station and that factions space! BUT, again, I would have to have higher standings with that faction than you do, otherwise the bribe would be ignored, IF YOU PAY THEM to ignore it (again, like you did with concord and the war-dec)!

AND 3rd) These bribes would only be "affective" during the "active" portion of the "live" war-dec and not during the warm up or cool down phases, or if no war-dec exists. So you can't just go into a station and tell them to boot just anybody out, so you can gank them....


Now don't whine to me about this costing to much, cause as I said earlier, if you can't afford the costs of WAR, then you should be retinking your "isk earning" strategy, instead of worrying about the costs of things you can't afford, or maybe YOUR CORP doesn't deserve to exist....

And don't try to say it's overly complicated, and/or not "doable" as "some" of the mechanics already exist (bribes to concord for war-decs, station owner/faction standings allowing interaction with that corp/faction). They'd just need to be expanded a lil bit to provide the "ejection" feature for the station (maybe like how you get ejected/rejected from a POS bubble), and once out, the opposing party could then deal with the war-deccer, or the faction popo would start shooting at you to make you leave their space, in the case of a faction bribe....
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#89 - 2012-02-13 03:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahz Niverrah
Twisted Trucker wrote:
I didn't say they don't PVP, but pa-lease, don't try to make them out to be L337 PVP'ers, cause most of them are NOT, and most are by their very nature of being "industrialists" are also PVE'ers.
If you're going to compete with me on the market and for resources, be prepared to trade shots too. If that's too much for you to handle, I don't know what to tell you other then to play a different game.

Twisted Trucker wrote:
Who says my operations are "impacted" by you phoning in a grief dec?
The fact that you're calling them "grief" decs and writing walls of text filled with rage at how much you want them to change tells me you are being affected.

Twisted Trucker wrote:
Especially if I'm sitting on your front porch waiting for you to come out, so I can beat the ever loving dog $hit out of you in front of all your neighbors! And your lucky I can't come into your house and drag you out by your nuts and make an example of you, to not even try to f**k with me!
This part made me smile. Internet tough guy hiding behind his alt. If you want people to take you seriously, post with your main. Or better yet, dec my alliance. I promise we'll give you a fight.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Twisted Trucker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-02-13 03:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Twisted Trucker
Who said I'm not ready to trade shot's with you and take your stuff? Why don't YOU take your a$$ to a different game! I pay to play this game just like you do!

Biotch pa-lease, you ain't seen me rage, you just can't handle the fact that I would make you come out from under your rock and FIGHT or suffer the consequences of your war-dec, instead of hiding!

And who said I was deccing anybody, it was just a simpler suggestion (simpler than Kelduums anyways) to try and solve what is percieved by many as a "broken war-dec mechanic".

Oh, and such an internet tough guy, calling out somebody on internet forums, biotch pa-lease, find some other chump to talk $hit to!

PS. this is my main, and I have no alts on this account! And I don't give a rats a$$ if you take me serious or not, that's YOUR problem, not mine, if you feel the need to be taken serious on some internet forum, especially about a game!
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#91 - 2012-02-13 03:55:18 UTC
I think I'm seeing you rage right now, actually. You sound pretty emotional. Still waiting for you to do this:

Internet Tough Guy wrote:
I can beat the ever loving dog $hit out of you in front of all your neighbors!

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#92 - 2012-02-13 04:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Twisted Trucker wrote:
.... grief-dec someone ...


You know that CCP don't define griefing like other game companies, and that high sec PVP isn't griefing? And that wardecs aren't griefing?

And wait, you want consensual PVP in Eve just because you pay like everybody else? How yes no. If I now sign up for WoW or Rift or TOR, I should expect devs to change the game to suit my preferences?
Twisted Trucker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-02-13 04:09:01 UTC
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
I think I'm seeing you rage right now, actually. You sound pretty emotional. Still waiting for you to do this:

Internet Tough Guy wrote:
I can beat the ever loving dog $hit out of you in front of all your neighbors!


Again, I don't give a rats a$$ what you're seeing or waiting for. You can wait till hell freezes over, for all I care!

TOUGH GUY!
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#94 - 2012-02-13 04:14:26 UTC
Internet Tough Guy wrote:
Again, I don't give a rats a$$ what you're seeing or waiting for. You can wait till hell freezes over, for all I care!
Nah, that's a lie. You come out and cry all over the forums when you don't like something and want EVE changed to fit your playstyle.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Twisted Trucker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-02-13 04:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Twisted Trucker
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Twisted Trucker wrote:
.... grief-dec someone ...


You know that CCP don't define griefing like other game companies, and that high sec PVP isn't griefing? And that wardecs aren't griefing?

And wait, you want consensual PVP in Eve just because you pay like everybody else? How yes no. If I now sign up for WoW or Rift or TOR, I should expect devs to change the game to suit my preferences?


Well, NO, your extrapolating the terms (grief-dec) from the whole of the thought (maybe that's not the right word, but whatever), what, are you CCP now, tellin me what is griefing and what is not? And you are aware there are systems IN HI-SEC where certain actions, ARE considered to be "griefing"?

And hell, these forums are chock full of "suggestions" for fixing "perceived problems" with the game. Who says YOU get to make the only "suggestions" for fixing the game and not me, or that YOU should be taken seriously, and I should not?

Anyways you're obviously knit-pickin for an arguement (just like that other knucklehead), so I'll just go on about my business and ignore the rest of your posts...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#96 - 2012-02-13 04:33:49 UTC
Sambu Ballabumbu wrote:
Ruby-"The Defense can always end the war early, just meet the conditions that the attacker sets when you ask them."
If I wanna gank you for a week, no matter what you offer to me, then you as a defender, has absolutlesy nothing you can do against me. If I wanna pick on you with my Taraniss all the time you exit a station, nothing holds me from giggling myself to death about you trying to catch me. Check E-Uni against Personal Training: We hunted that guy in his Taraniss through the whole Universe, and he had no need to stop anywhere, but as soon as you turn your back on him he can kill one of your carebears or a stupid neewbie on the undock with his pve shiny. There is just no way the defender can take over the giggles on his side in a situation like that and the atacker will allways win.Ugh (and no whining: that guy did great in what he wanted to do, I just dont feel it was a war. He should have been rather an infamous pirate than a legitimite wardec, when it comes to game mechanic)


Make it not fun to fight you, and keep people from getting decent ganks on your shinies; i.e. don't be an idiot. There sure are ways to kill the giggles. Set decent traps, use tons of EWAR (BBs are cheap), use every cheap trick in the book. The end of the attacker meaningfully prosecuting the war spells the end of the war to me, so back to business as usual just keep an eye on local.

If he can kill someone's PvE ship on the undock, then the victim is an idiot for aggressing and for not docking during the 15s invuln period after the session change (in the case of alpha strikes).

Fine, think of them as corporate fighting rights. For a fee I can fight a corp I want to fight in whatever manner I prefer. Same thing, different name, that's why I don't like RP.

Quote:

You are right a Corp that focusses on getting and holding new players in the game will allways be a more likeley target, than a pvp-corp with a 15mil SP requirement. But do you want only the latter ones to be able to survive in EvE, then you can count the days until the game wil die.

Never said that. What I said that a newbie corp will be a target; so that newbie corp should figure out and teach its members how to fight off those attackers effectively.

Quote:

Ruby-"f I am fighting a war against a group that can and does field enormous fleets, why the hell wouldn't I stay safe until I can pick off stragglers and the careless? You speak of protecting the little guy and then turn around and say that the big guy should be able to stomp out a wardec by force of numbers, what's up with that?"

small guy atacks big guy: the small guy should be able to land some good kicks into the groin of the big guy, but at some point it should be at least possible for the big guy to trap the small guy into the corner and knock him out. For any watcher that still could mean that the little guy won the battle (by pain = ISK) but the big guy was and should be able to end the war early.

Bait, Traps, ETC ETC. Take the will to fight out of them by making those traps suck to be in.

Quote:

Ruby- "I wouldn't take that fight. That's why Lowsec incursions aren't suicidal."
I will retrreat on that issue, you got the point :P But again that involves High-sec to become more or less like Low-sec due to the wardec. I t may be not impossible to run your buisness, but it might scare newer players away from doing so anyway. Now you will say, that the hard way is the best way for them to learn, and you are maybe right, but what exactly would you loose if there is a somewhat softer realm for those that dont like it that hard?


If you can't defend your business in a conflict-centered sandbox, you don't get to run it? Seems to be working as intended.

If you're too scared to run your business while nobody's shooting you but you're decced, why are you in a PC corp? I'd also add GB2WOW, but that might seem mean to the poor piddwing wittle nublets you want to protect from the core game mechanics of the game they have decided to play.

HISec IS the softer realm. You have Police who act like (and are swifter than) RW police, you have Sentry guns and Faction Popo, you have NPC corps providing immunity to wardec for a fee, you can freely dock in every station you meet, etc. How is Hisec not a fluffy bunny ranch of an area*? If you want it *even* softer than that, there's SISI, which is aptly pronounced and free from all nonconsensual conflict (including market based conflict, cause if you're gonna remove nonconsensual conflict, you don't get to keep market based conflict). So it seems we have your solution; Go to SISI.

*Compare it to the rest of EvE, not to WoW or another MMO because NO OTHER MMO has the singleminded focus one interplayer conflict that EvE does. Think of it; BPOs and Skillbooks are the last standard goods (that I can think of) not produced by players that I can think of; those producers are in direct competition with each other. No other game has a IG market like that.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#97 - 2012-02-13 04:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
RubyPorto wrote:
If you can't defend your business in a conflict-centered sandbox, you don't get to run it? Seems to be working as intended.


This.
Sambu Ballabumbu
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-02-13 04:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sambu Ballabumbu
@lol fofo
Quote:
try to judge what they says not just simply from who they are

and...just before you say:
Quote:
actually , i stoped reading your post , when you mention " incursion runner " and check you char history
you still freshman in eve uni , quit for fewdays on january and joiend eve uni again. How you came out with all these argument and points? if eve-uni itself thinks you still a freshman ?? are you one of those carebears who actually joined eve uni simply for incursion running and making isk ? Why you left for fewdays ? scared of wardec? some one pull this guy incursion income??!!

So you want to be judged by your arguements, but you judge me by my titles, corp-history and your prejudices about it and not by my arguements? Nice paradox!
I am a frashmen because I never applied for anything other, wanna blame me for not beein eager for titles? I left for a few days cause of an API-check the Uni ran and mine was expired due to my vacation I couldnt react. If you would have checked the medals I recieved you would have seen that I actually got one by the Uni for not leaving corp during our NO-WSOP month last year and I am living in the Unis-Low-sec-camp since it exists. So come ther if you wanna shot me.

It makes me sad that arguements by a freshman to the game are not accepted apparently, but it seems widely accepted to make stupid accusations and criticisms about an idea before you got the gist of it at all.
I keep on reading nonsens about an instanced pvp-area or flagging-system here and there is nothing about that in the proposal... just read it. If you call the bubble around the proposed SNA an instance, than every warp-buble in null is an instance too. So bringing up nonsens, non-arguements, and just blames is ok, if it is only by a 7-year old 1337-char. Brilliant!

I was just interested in this discussion about game-mechanics, because it is my profession and passion to think about game-mechanics.

  • It is no good mechanic if you can avoid it or use another bad mechanic against it.

  • If a war means sending someone a mesage, then I think thats a great downplay on the meaning of the word "war". If you want to say F**** off to somebody, why dont you just convo him??


  • I think it is good if mercenairies play a role in high-sec-wars, cause carebears dont like to fight, and like that to be done by others for them.


  • I dont think a war should be predictable or fair, but it should involve fighting and risk instead.


I still think the perspective of a new player should mean something at least to CCP and the CSM. If not the game will not survive and I dont want that to happen, cause its so unique. I made my points, who wants to understand them, will understand, but some will allways read what they expect to read no matter what.

So I will leave the discussion (as far as it is one) to all you elitist old-school eve-players. be happy.

Edit wants to talk to Ruby:
Pleas dont get me wrong all the time! I dont want to make High-sec any safer than it is now! It good. I want to get rid of wardecs that are annoying to me but by no means dangerous, neither to me nor to the atacker! This is not about "I feel scared by griefers, Mamma CCP help me!" at all!
Actually I want those wardeccs to be harder and more dangerous than they are now, and I made several proposals in that direction and will not repeat them.
I really tried to make that clear more than once. But anyway, I enjoyd reading your arguments, as they have your opinion and I totally can accept that. I wish you good fights o/
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-02-13 06:02:23 UTC
just multiply the cost of wardecs by 10-15 and we solve all the problems,
500mil a week for alliances, 20mil for corp sounds fair
if you REALLY want to wardec someone you will be able to, at the moment war decs are just grief tools for people who don't know how to survive low/null or want to pad kill boards.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-02-13 06:08:27 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
... at the moment war decs are just grief tools for people who don't know how to survive low/null or want to pad kill boards.

Old tired argument that has no basis in any fact.